Muslim woman cites gym after interrupted prayer

[luthersmama]

and this begs the question,, why the he!! is the fool kneeling and praying in front of a GYM LOCKER at "fitness USA" anyway?? that just cracks me up. i mean if your religion dictactes that you must drop down wherever you are and praise allah for half an hour 5 times a day, then you might as well just stay home! no wonder they never made it out of the dark ages.... no time to evolve, too busy praying...LOL

Without their math, we would still be using Roman numerals. Europe never would have made it INTO the dark ages, let alone make it to the Renaissance.

 

[2sisters]

The point of all of this was that the Muslim woman inconvieninced another paying member of this gym. The lady obvioulsy didn't feel like she should wait for the woman to finish praying and she was right to think that. Maybe she had things to do , maybe she didn't who care. i said it before and I will say it again, if it was a baptist praying in front of that locker everyone would be making fun of that "crazy jesus freak" . If I am expected to keep my Christianity under wraps in public for fear of offending people then the same should go for all religions. Maybe people are a little anti-islamic nowadays, can you blame them? Who was planning to blow up infidels shopping for Christmas? Sure they aren't all bad, but the bad usually spoil it for the good.

 

[Nova]

Without their math, we would still be using Roman numerals. Europe never would have made it INTO the dark ages, let alone make it to the Renaissance.

Absolutely. We would know little if anything of Plato and Aristotle; it was Islamic translations that kept such thinkers alive during the 1,000 years when their works were lost. We would still be burning witches to cure the flu; it was Islamic doctors who expanded medical knowledge during centuries that found Christian nations mired in poverty and ignorance.

Islam was the great beacon of knowledge and intellectual investigation during the so-called "Dark Ages" of Christianity.

 

[Nova]

The point of all of this was that the Muslim woman inconvieninced another paying member of this gym. The lady obvioulsy didn't feel like she should wait for the woman to finish praying and she was right to think that. Maybe she had things to do , maybe she didn't who care. i said it before and I will say it again, if it was a baptist praying in front of that locker everyone would be making fun of that "crazy jesus freak" . If I am expected to keep my Christianity under wraps in public for fear of offending people then the same should go for all religions. Maybe people are a little anti-islamic nowadays, can you blame them? Who was planning to blow up infidels shopping for Christmas? Sure they aren't all bad, but the bad usually spoil it for the good.

As far as I know, there is nothing that says you have to keep your personal faith and beliefs "under wraps" for fear of offending people. It's religious displays by the government that are unconstitutional.

The issue at the gym isn't that individual religious displays are forbidden, but that the Muslim woman was insisting her desire to pray should supercede the intended function of a private business.

 

[GlitchWizard]

I read the article, but must have missed another one that said she was blocking a locker. The one I read said she was in a closet off the locker room - but either way it's middle school stupidity.

You don't have to respect someone's God, or even a person, but you should TREAT people with respect. On both counts.

1. If you are going to tie your shoes, read, pray or gab on the cellphone - do it out of the way of others who are doing what they came there to do. (No matter where you are.)

2. If someone is praying - show some basic manners and don't make fun of them, disturb them on purpose or be a jerk.

3. If someone is in the way of your locker and doesn't move when they see that you are wanting to be there - work around them. I'm over 250# with a corner locker, and I can work around the other ladies in the gym without hurting anyone.

Sounds like they both should go back to preschool and learn how to take turns and respect others... or at least pretend to respect others.

 

[windovervocalcords]

As far as I know, there is nothing that says you have to keep your personal faith and beliefs "under wraps" for fear of offending people. It's religious displays by the government that are unconstitutional.

The issue at the gym isn't that individual religious displays are forbidden, but that the Muslim woman was insisting her desire to pray should supercede the intended function of a private business.

My question is why does the prayer have to be a show? Can't she pray silently? If prayer is that important and must be done with prostrations and voice why not schedule your workout at a time when you don't pray?

I can pray and meditate silently without anyone being the wiser. I prefer to have my foreign sounding chanting and prayers at home or in the spiritual community center where horns, cymbals, bells, drums etc are welcome.

At the same time almost any time we put the word "Muslim" in any story it seems to make people crazy.

 

[2sisters]

My question is why does the prayer have to be a show? Can't she pray silently? If prayer is that important and must be done with prostrations and voice why not schedule your workout at a time when you don't pray?

I can pray and meditate silently without anyone being the wiser. I prefer to have my foreign sounding chanting and prayers at home or in the spiritual community center where horns, cymbals, bells, drums etc are welcome.

At the same time almost any time we put the word "Muslim" in any story it seems to make people crazy.

Exactly. Christians pray before meals all the time in restaraunts and you hardly notice. When I eat dinner with my grandma we all have to pary before we eat, in publc or not. I have never noticed any stares form others.

 

[Nova]

My question is why does the prayer have to be a show? Can't she pray silently? If prayer is that important and must be done with prostrations and voice why not schedule your workout at a time when you don't pray?

I can pray and meditate silently without anyone being the wiser. I prefer to have my foreign sounding chanting and prayers at home or in the spiritual community center where horns, cymbals, bells, drums etc are welcome.

At the same time almost any time we put the word "Muslim" in any story it seems to make people crazy.

wind, I honestly don't know that much about Muslim prayers. Of course, I've seen film of public prayers in Muslim countries, but I don't know what, exactly, the woman in the gym was doing.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Exactly. Christians pray before meals all the time in restaraunts and you hardly notice. When I eat dinner with my grandma we all have to pary before we eat, in publc or not. I have never noticed any stares form others.

It's not prayer that is "inappropriate" IMO. We can all pray silently.

We need to protect our respective traditions and leave certain of our practices for our community houses of spiritual practice.

No one likes to be made to feel bad. Why do we pray at all? To increase the goodness in the world.

There are ways we can do this. And there are people who are interested in other cultures and traditions and skillful ways to introduce the variety of religious experience in a way that benefits all.

This incident is not it IMO. But good can come from all of it eventually.

 

[reb]

luthersmom-- very very true, and good point, i am certainly not discounting what muslims (and other scholars) have done throughout history. i just think it's time for them to evolve and join the 21st century, and not hate everyone else & try to destroy them, for doing so. and stop killing women for showing thier faces in public. they may have been quite advanced at one time-- but somewhere along the line.. they got stuck.

 

[windovervocalcords]

With all due respect, it is up to Muslims to decide this themselves. Their faith is at a turning point.

 

[2sisters]

With all due respect, it is up to Muslims to decide this themselves. Their faith is at a turning point.

I am not sure what you mean. When will domineering behavior over women stop them? When the Muslim men decide? And the violence. I can not think of a group that treats their women worse than them. Sorry but that's how I see it.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I am not sure what you mean. When will domineering behavior over women stop them? When the Muslim men decide? And the violence. I can not think of a group that treats their women worse than them. Sorry but that's how I see it.

It is up to the Muslims to decide which direction their faith will take them.

 

[reb]

and... it's up to the rest of us to decide how much we are going to tolerate and take from them, while they are "figuring out where the faith will take them"......!

 

[Nova]

It is up to the Muslims to decide which direction their faith will take them.

Yes and no. I have no problem opposing the genital mutilation of female children. I don't care what their parents believe...

 

[hallowedbe]

Read The Haj by Leon Uris. You will never be the same.

 

[luthersmama]

luthersmom-- very very true, and good point, i am certainly not discounting what muslims (and other scholars) have done throughout history. i just think it's time for them to evolve and join the 21st century, and not hate everyone else & try to destroy them, for doing so. and stop killing women for showing thier faces in public. they may have been quite advanced at one time-- but somewhere along the line.. they got stuck.

Glad to hear you appreciate the accomplishments. I think, however, that you are unfairly lumping together a vastly diverse population. Arab Muslims have very different societal attitudes than South Asian, Southeast Asian or European Muslims. There is a large Canadian population of Muslims as well who do not, so far as I know, engage in any type of ideologically motivated bad behavior. Certainly the large population of Muslims working in the computer and pharmaceutical industries in my area of the US are not "stuck" in a prior century They are in high demand to do jobs that American students can't do because the Americans lack the math and science skills. They are polite and peaceful and the vast majority of the women do not wear head coverings.

I feel that the American media is giving a very narrow and negative view of Islam that does not recognize the vast diversity that exists. Its like judging all Christians based on the behavior of the Mafia or the IRA or those pseudo-Mormon polygamists.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Yes and no. I have no problem opposing the genital mutilation of female children. I don't care what their parents believe...

Nova--

What I mean by my post is this:

There is a very real crisis in Islam at this time. Just as there is a movement in our Christian denominations as to who shall be the dominant Christian voice with fundamentalists gaining strength the same thing is happening in the Muslim world.

Surely, you didn't think I would be in favor of female genital mutilation?

 

[windovervocalcords]

Glad to hear you appreciate the accomplishments. I think, however, that you are unfairly lumping together a vastly diverse population. Arab Muslims have very different societal attitudes than South Asian, Southeast Asian or European Muslims. There is a large Canadian population of Muslims as well who do not, so far as I know, engage in any type of ideologically motivated bad behavior. Certainly the large population of Muslims working in the computer and pharmaceutical industries in my area of the US are not "stuck" in a prior century They are in high demand to do jobs that American students can't do because the Americans lack the math and science skills. They are polite and peaceful and the vast majority of the women do not wear head coverings.

I feel that the American media is giving a very narrow and negative view of Islam that does not recognize the vast diversity that exists. Its like judging all Christians based on the behavior of the Mafia or the IRA or those pseudo-Mormon polygamists.

I agree with your post especially the last paragraph.

 

[Nova]

Nova--

What I mean by my post is this:

There is a very real crisis in Islam at this time. Just as there is a movement in our Christian denominations as to who shall be the dominant Christian voice with fundamentalists gaining strength the same thing is happening in the Muslim world.

Surely, you didn't think I would be in favor of female genital mutilation?

Of course not. No more than I think most Western Muslims practice it.

I was just qualifying what seemed a very broad statement.