Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #18

[petra]

I will check to who put it in their affidavit..I think it was one of NC friends.
That is the reason I put IIRC. I know I have read it a few times.

I found it in JA affidavit #6i, I also believe it is mentioned in others, because NC got no present was mentioned in someone else's. Christmas seemed to not be the happiest.
Also the Rentz's stated winter 2008, which could mean NC & BC stayed in CA after the New Year. IDK

Thanks for checking on that.

 

[Star12]

quote from maconrich--


The reason for my conclusion is that there was no logical reason to take her name off of the utility account other than the fact it would make it more difficult for her to rent a place of her own, establish credit, and have the utilities turned on if she did manage to find a place to live. There is no other reason I can think of -- it's not like she could have increased their debt by having her name on the account! And the fact that he didn't tell her he'd done these things points to the punishment motive -- she didn't find out until she tried to pay the bill when the water was turned off!!

Yes, this is speculation. Speculation based on the affidavits, the level of concern expressed by her family/friends, and on some of the common traits of abusers...


Excellent point...and the respackeling over finished painting--just childish.
And so frustrating, little ways to get back at someone....

Do we know that he actually took her name off the water account, or had it never been on there? I think it is our speculation that he had removed her name from the water bill account. I think that is a shift from the fact that when she went to pay the water bill she found that her name had been removed from the credit card account she tried to use to pay the bill.

 

[petra]

When I was getting ready to seperate 25 yrs ago my attorney advised me to leave a note where I was going if it was over night, let someone know where I was going to be, and leave items at the home to show I was planning on returning.

Wow.
What áre thoughts on this?
I think this has to be the most tense and inhumane situation for all involved. I just don't like it or understand it..IMO:waitasec:
Why do you think this provision is in place?
I wonder what amount of violence takes place during this time??
I'll have to do some searching on this soon to find out.

 

[momto3kids]

Do we know that he actually took her name off the water account, or had it never been on there? I think it is our speculation that he had removed her name from the water bill account. I think that is a shift from the fact that when she went to pay the water bill she found that her name had been removed from the credit card account she tried to use to pay the bill.

Star12....I think you are correct. She tried to pay it and didn't have access to the card to do it. In our home some utilities are in my name others in my husbands, but not both. It is who applied for them when we moved.

I doubt the water company would deny a payment from anyone with the money for a delinquent account such as this, but they will DENY someone who is not on the account to have it turned off. An example is someone moving...the seller has to request the H2O to be turned off before the buyer can have it turned on.

 

[EntreNous]

Thank you -- and same to RC and Fran for bringing up (what to me is) the obvious -- if indeed BC was overly controlling. It seems clear that Nancy wasn't one to go down without a fight and that she had managed to develop and maintain close friendships -- most likely despite BC. And it's likely that each and every step she took toward independence made her life with BC more volatile.

Based on her friends' affidavits, Nancy had been breaking away from Brad over the last several months if not longer. That's something controlling others tend not to take well even if they no longer "love" or even care about the person. Nancy calling Brad out in front of others was a huge sign that she was headed out the door and made her situation even more precarious. Actions like this would be seen as defiance, and I totally understand why her friends and family were worried about her and why JA alerted authorities when Nancy went missing.

Just because NC participated in activities doesn't mean she did so without repercussions; and just because she may not have had obvious physical scars or bruises doesn't mean she wasn't abused. We don't know how Brad treated her when she came home from a vacation or even a visit with friends. Perhaps he was the type that went into silent mode and refused to acknowledge her existence aside from glares and/or under the breath grumblings/threats. Perhaps he did things while she and the girls were gone that he knew would upset her (as was indicated in affidavits regarding the condition of the house when she returned - and it's too bad she didn't take pictures like she thought she should have!). Maybe it was a combination of both, or maybe it was direct threats, ranting and raving and/or physical intimidation.

It absolutely is a warped "mind game" and one that is very dangerous -especially when the victim stops following the rules of the game (with the rules being something it seems BC changed depending on his mood or the time of day). The controller feels their authority is being challenged and punishment, in whatever form, is the usual response. BC taking Nancy off the bank account, credit cards and utility bills can be seen as punishment -- not because Nancy may have liked to shop, but because she was being more assertive and regaining her self-confidence.

The reason for my conclusion is that there was no logical reason to take her name off of the utility account other than the fact it would make it more difficult for her to rent a place of her own, establish credit, and have the utilities turned on if she did manage to find a place to live. There is no other reason I can think of -- it's not like she could have increased their debt by having her name on the account! And the fact that he didn't tell her he'd done these things points to the punishment motive -- she didn't find out until she tried to pay the bill when the water was turned off!!

Yes, this is speculation. Speculation based on the affidavits, the level of concern expressed by her family/friends, and on some of the common traits of abusers...

I agree with everything here but I have a question about what I've highlighted in bold. And correct me if I'm wrong. Did BC remove her name from utilities or was her name ever on them to begin with? I thought she tried to pay the water bill after it was shut off and at that time discovered that her name had been removed from the credit card, not the utility.

 

[maconrich]

Do we know that he actually took her name off the water account, or had it never been on there? I think it is our speculation that he had removed her name from the water bill account. I think that is a shift from the fact that when she went to pay the water bill she found that her name had been removed from the credit card account she tried to use to pay the bill.

I'm not sure :waitasec:

hmmmm... CM stated in point 11 that he "had cut Nancy off all credit cards, bank accounts and common household utilities accounts" Not sure if others mentioned it or not?

 

[momto3kids]

Wow.
What áre thoughts on this?
I think this has to be the most tense and inhumane situation for all involved. I just don't like it or understand it..IMO:waitasec:
Why do you think this provision is in place?
I wonder what amount of violence takes place during this time??
I'll have to do some searching on this soon to find out.

Here is a link that talks about this...#3 is what I was guided to do since I was going to my family's home 900 miles away and didn't want to get charged with abandonment.

http://kruschandsellers.wordpress.com/2007/06/05/abandonment-in-north-carolina/

 

[Bob&Bob]

I don't think you're being erased if you're always going on vacation.

 

[petra]

Do we know that he actually took her name off the water account, or had it never been on there? I think it is our speculation that he had removed her name from the water bill account. I think that is a shift from the fact that when she went to pay the water bill she found that her name had been removed from the credit card account she tried to use to pay the bill.

It may very well be speculation about the name on the water accont, I really don't know but thought I read it in an affidavet.

NC probably had a hard time getting her name on anything when they first moved to US under her visa status---but after a couple of years--the idea is to add spouse'sname, so credit can be established.

We went through this a few times (since we country-hop) :crazy:
It is not fun.........

 

[Star12]

Wow.
What áre thoughts on this?
I think this has to be the most tense and inhumane situation for all involved. I just don't like it or understand it..IMO:waitasec:
Why do you think this provision is in place?
I wonder what amount of violence takes place during this time??
I'll have to do some searching on this soon to find out.

It has been a few years since I was in this position, however when I left I took the children and went to Interact, had an Ex Parte Emergency Order, had the hearing on it, and at the hearing my ex was ordered to vacate the home, and the children and I moved back in.

I certainly was not cited for abandonment, not of him nor of the premises.

And yes, leaving is the most critical time. I left, finally, when he was out of town on a business trip. It was at a time when the physical violence was escalating. I did not want to become a statistic and try to confront him nor antagonize him as I was leaving.

 

[Bob&Bob]

I agree with everything here but I have a question about what I've highlighted in bold. And correct me if I'm wrong. Did BC remove her name from utilities or was her name ever on them to begin with? I thought she tried to pay the water bill after it was shut off and at that time discovered that her name had been removed from the credit card, not the utility.

Why should it stay on the bill if she was leaving?

 

[mahmoo]

Thank you -- and same to RC and Fran for bringing up (what to me is) the obvious -- if indeed BC was overly controlling. It seems clear that Nancy wasn't one to go down without a fight and that she had managed to develop and maintain close friendships -- most likely despite BC. And it's likely that each and every step she took toward independence made her life with BC more volatile.

:bow: good post.........i agree!!

 

[petra]

Here is a link that talks about this...#3 is what I was guided to do since I was going to my family's home 900 miles away and didn't want to get charged with abandonment.

http://kruschandsellers.wordpress.com/2007/06/05/abandonment-in-north-carolina/

Thanks for the link-very helpful
Sounds like abandoment does not have an effect on alimoey but certainly does on the property you leave...item number 5
) Abandoning your property may affect your rights with regard to that property. In this paragraph, I’m talking about the physical act of going somewhere and leaving your property behind. For one thing, if you move out of your home, your spouse may be able to keep you out of the home under the domestic criminal trespass statute. N.C.G.S. 14-134.3 says that (note - this is a very simplified interpretation and may or may not apply to the specific facts of your situation) if you move out of the marital residence and then try to re-enter you may be guilty of a misdemeanor. Additionally, abandoning your property may (but doesn’t always) make it harder to get that property back in the separation agreement or equitable distribution suit.

Also must be dfficult and time consuming to prove all three items listed in the link.

What a nightmare!!!

 

[petra]

It has been a few years since I was in this position, however when I left I took the children and went to Interact, had an Ex Parte Emergency Order, had the hearing on it, and at the hearing my ex was ordered to vacate the home, and the children and I moved back in.

I certainly was not cited for abandonment, not of him nor of the premises.

And yes, leaving is the most critical time. I left, finally, when he was out of town on a business trip. It was at a time when the physical violence was escalating. I did not want to become a statistic and try to confront him nor antagonize him as I was leaving.

You are one smart and brave woman. I hope you and the kids have recovered as best you can from this horrid experience. Hugs.

 

[minachica]

I don't think you're being erased if you're always going on vacation.

Why should it stay on the bill if she was leaving?

yoo hoo Fran - I think the Bobs is missing you!! :beats:

 

[petra]

Why should it stay on the bill if she was leaving?

Because she did not leave yet!!!
Nancy and the girls were still members of that household and if BC was so worried about the money, IMO, he would want her name on there (if it ever was) so it could be deducted as a family expense, not personal, at the time of settlement.
Remember, no seperation agreement was ever signed.IIRC

 

[carolinalady]

Because she did not leave yet!!!
Nancy and the girls were still members of that household and if BC was so worried about the money, IMO, he would want her name on there (if it ever was) so it could be deducted as a family expense, not personal, at the time of settlement.
Remember, no seperation agreement was ever signed.IIRC

I think it is total speculation at this point as to whether or not he had her name removed from the utility accounts of if they were never there in the first place. I set up all of the accounts when we moved and only my name is on all of them.

And, it's my understanding that in North Carolina, this still would be considered a family expense when it comes time for separation/divorce. This was the legal residence and both names were on the property deed.

 

[momto3kids]

Thanks for the link-very helpful
Sounds like abandoment does not have an effect on alimoey but certainly does on the property you leave...item number 5
) Abandoning your property may affect your rights with regard to that property. In this paragraph, I’m talking about the physical act of going somewhere and leaving your property behind. For one thing, if you move out of your home, your spouse may be able to keep you out of the home under the domestic criminal trespass statute. N.C.G.S. 14-134.3 says that (note - this is a very simplified interpretation and may or may not apply to the specific facts of your situation) if you move out of the marital residence and then try to re-enter you may be guilty of a misdemeanor. Additionally, abandoning your property may (but doesn’t always) make it harder to get that property back in the separation agreement or equitable distribution suit.

Also must be dfficult and time consuming to prove all three items listed in the link.

What a nightmare!!!

NC was in a catch 22....I personally think this website is very helpful for anyone thinking of leaving or if they know of anyone thinking about it.

Again, mine was 25 years ago and it was made very clear what I had to do.
Then again living in NC I was going to be entitled to 1/2 everything so why not leave? It sometimes felt like a double edge sword. IMO

 

[maconrich]

ok I've gone thru most of affidavits and BC's rebuttal and only see the one reference to him taking her off of common utilities accounts, so I'm really not sure. But I'd say (imo) that taking her off the ccards and bank account and *not letting her know* amounts to about the same thing as far as control and punishment go.


very interesting info on abandonment; think I'm going to have to re-read it a few times...

 

[CyberPro]

Here is a link that talks about this...#3 is what I was guided to do since I was going to my family's home 900 miles away and didn't want to get charged with abandonment.

http://kruschandsellers.wordpress.com/2007/06/05/abandonment-in-north-carolina/

WOW!, Check out item #6 on that website. It speaks of the custody of a third party of the children. Sounds like that bar is set pretty high, but the Ex-Parte order granted custody to the grandparents.

If I were BC, I would find this to be an ominous development.

CyberPro