NC - 12-year-old dies at Trails Carolina wilderness therapy camp, Lake Toxaway, February 2024

[Izzylizzy]

Going back to this ridiculous statement for a sec, it occurred to me that it doesn't feel like something an attorney would write. I would think any competent lawyer would tell the company to just put out a message of sympathy and say that you are cooperating with the authorities .

Instead, claiming claim you did a flash investigation and discovered no wrongdoing when you couldn't even know what happened to the boy reads like something a businessperson would come up with in a panic.

Even if Trails avoids criminal liability somehow, there will almost certainly be a civil lawsuit. And I predict that this statement will be used by the plaintiff as evidence of just how callous and uncaring the company was.

You don't need to be a lawyer to roll your eyes whenever an internal investigation's results are put forward as some kind of proof.
Lawyers always tell their clients to keep their mouths shut and let them do the talking.
I'm curious who released this to the press adding insult to injury.

 

[acutename]

Going back to this ridiculous statement for a sec, it occurred to me that it doesn't feel like something an attorney would write. I would think any competent lawyer would tell the company to just put out a message of sympathy and say that you are cooperating with the authorities .

Instead, claiming claim you did a flash investigation and discovered no wrongdoing when you couldn't even know what happened to the boy reads like something a businessperson would come up with in a panic.

Even if Trails avoids criminal liability somehow, there will almost certainly be a civil lawsuit. And I predict that this statement will be used by the plaintiff as evidence of just how callous and uncaring the company was.

I think they wrote this (and hopefully they did look over all their procedures) because they have other clients right now, and if you had a child or relative at one of their camps, what would you be thinking?

 

[realanastasia]

I'm sure the FBI closed up shop and went home, eh?

What could be suspect from an "internal investigation" and from a firm you hired to investigate a death under your watch?

Trails Carolina's verdict is in.


Feb.13,2024

"The facility then pushed back on any suggestions of wrongdoing on their part.

"Trails has conducted an internal investigation of this incident, and the Trails facility has been investigated by outside professionals who are subject-matter experts. Both investigations have concluded that there is no evidence that Trails failed to properly supervise, no evidence that Trails caused harm, and no evidence that conditions at Trails were unsafe or unhealthy," said Trails. "Speculation of any kind is inappropriate and disrespectful the family."

Staff Watched Boy, 12, Suffer Panic Attacks Before Death at Camp: Cops

Counselors "stood along the wall" and witnessed the boy having a panic attack while sleeping on the floor but "did not mention if [any] counselors attempted to assist CJH with any easement during his anxiety attack," says the warrant.

www.insideedition.com

"

Would love to know in what “subject matter” the “experts” who allegedly absolved Trails Carolina of wrongdoing actually specialize…

 

[acutename]

The combination of bivy and sleeping bag would be waaaaay too hot inside a cabin, which Carolina Trails claim was heated. If that's a cheap technical bivy, it would retain heat. No oxygen is getting in there, either. Bivvies are for OUTSIDE use.

And, for gosh sake, why didn't he get to sleep on a bed like a normal human being?

If you read this which was previously posted: Vox First Person: I went into the woods a teenage drug addict and came out sober. Was it worth it?

it hammers home how "disruptive" this therapy is supposed to be- it is supposed to separate the child (or in the quoted source, adolescent) from what ever bad behaviors, habits, friends, drug dealers, etc. s/he has become accustomed to and it is supposed to start the person's life over. In the quoted source, the author ran away- with nothing, into the forest-pretty dangerous actually. His shoes were removed at night to prevent this, but he managed to run away anyway. The dead boy was only 12 but we do not know why he was sent to camp. We do not know if his parents or anyone else involved in his care thought it was necessary to make any progress. We do not know if he was acting out or what he was doing- IMO. We do not know if he was a sad little kid or if he was perceived as dangerous... we know very little.

 

[Izzylizzy]

We've seen the "foam in the mouth" symptoms from previous cases, e.g. Tammy Daybell. The cause was asphyxiation.

In this case, the warrant paperwork points to the idea that it might be poison. That's for the ME to determine.

An opioid overdose can cause foaming in the mouth.
I'm not saying that this 12 yr old boy somehow got his hands on drugs.
Why would the camp ever give a kid an opioid?

He was said to have eaten snacks after he refused having dinner.
What time did he eat them and how long can it be after aspirating that you're in trouble?
With my dad it was within minutes.

 

[RickshawFan]

Parents aren't thinking their child is going to be tortured, though.

Nature, if done right, can be healing. Treatment for depression can include exercise and time spent in nature.

I think the parents are expecting their child will be in a structured and ultimately positive environment, learning to work with others and enjoy nature. They are thinking it will benefit the child's anxiety, depression, etc. to "get away" and be in a new environment, away from any current negative influences and in a beautiful landscape.

They are imagining a summer camp but with more rules, structure, and therapy.

No way they thought their child would be half undressed, in a restraint in a floor, being ignored while panicking and distressed, allegedly. (If that is what happened.)
JMO.

I agree with this exactly. Nature is a healing and rejuvenating resource. It can help with dysregulation and, done right, can have individuals focusing on the moment, which experts say is good for you.

To get to that point, you have to have a feeling of relative safety IMO, especially if you're a newbie. As you get more experience, your tolerance for discomfort increases (or maybe not, if you're a bear magnet).

Taking away creature comforts from a newbie in this kind of environment is cruel; almost inevitably, it will make you feel unsafe. They need adequate apparel, hats and gloves, warm and protective gear, waterproof footwear, expensive socks, immediate access to first aid, nourishing, cooked, food, a way to get washed up in warm water, a well set up toilet facility, even if temporary, filtered water, sanitary treatment for dishes, etc.. Newbie campers should be warm and dry. All of those are how you'd want to ground a positive nature experience for an inexperienced person. With these, you are well-positioned to develop team building skills and responsibility. From there, you can have expectations, issue chores, etc. (The Sierra Club had plenty of these when I used to go on group trips, like getting up extra early to fix the scrambled eggs, packing out trash, cooking dinner from the provided recipes, cleaning pots, stocking firewood, taking down wet tents, etc.)
And if you screw up? Maybe you don't get to have hot cocoa that night (which can be extreme punishment if you're living outdoors in the cold, 'cos all you can think about is food and getting warm), maybe you get the pot scrubbing chore, maybe you get to carry the trash, or the extra water (very heavy). So many options.

But these camps have turned nature into deprivation. You have to endure until you earn. Or else you have to endure until you submit. And from a leader's point of view? Leading a group of dysregulated newbies in the cold and rain of current NC, and having all their sleeping bags get wet......I don't understand the logic. What would anyone get out of this except misery and fear?

 

[RickshawFan]

If you read this which was previously posted: Vox First Person: I went into the woods a teenage drug addict and came out sober. Was it worth it?

it hammers home how "disruptive" this therapy is supposed to be- it is supposed to separate the child (or in the quoted source, adolescent) from what ever bad behaviors, habits, friends, drug dealers, etc. s/he has become accustomed to and it is supposed to start the person's life over. In the quoted source, the author ran away- with nothing, into the forest-pretty dangerous actually. His shoes were removed at night to prevent this, but he managed to run away anyway. The dead boy was only 12 but we do not know why he was sent to camp. We do not know if his parents or anyone else involved in his care thought it was necessary to make any progress. We do not know if he was acting out or what he was doing- IMO. We do not know if he was a sad little kid or if he was perceived as dangerous... we know very little.

I am afraid to read that article. I am afraid it will give me nightmares. That's why I haven't read it.

 

[MyBelle]

My dad went into a nursing home for a 1-2 week stay to use their physical re-hab wing for strengthening his legs.
He was 84 and wasn't on any prescribed medications.
On his 2nd night there he was given "Haldol",when I visited him the next morning he was asleep and they told me he was "agitated" and the nursing home doctor prescribed it..She never even met him ,no less knew anything about him.
Giving Hadol was their go-to policy.

I woke him up and had brought in a delish breakfast from home for him.
As he was eating he aspirated ( unbeknownst to me) and soon after stopped breathing.
I screamed or the nurse, they threw me out of the room and I called 911 and got him as he lay unconscious across the street to the hospital.
He never regained consciousness ( except for a midnight squeeze of my hand) as I lay next to him on a cot) and passed away the next morning about 10:30 am.

I'm so sorry you experienced the loss of your sweet dad in such a horrific manner!

We had a BIL hospitalized last summer for a UTI. He was prescribed so many anti-psychotics, it turned him into a zombie to the point he couldn't even move his own body. When he was finally discharged to physical therapy, he was still on several anti-psychotic drugs. When his son found got access to his medical records and saw all the anti-psychotic meds, he called his dad's GP and the GP demanded he be taken off all the meds. We think that saved his life. His son has filed a complaint with the state medical licensing agency.

Hospitals and nursing homes use the drugs as a form of medical restraint on elderly people who develop something called "hospital delirium." There should be a law against it.

JMO

 

[Izzylizzy]

Report says they just watched.

We have 2 counselors that claimed to have just watched the boy having a panic attack while the other boys in the cabin slept through it.

Since when have panic attacks become silent ?

 

[acutename]

I am afraid to read that article. I am afraid it will give me nightmares. That's why I haven't read it.

It is an interesting article- the author is sane and productive- of course some things are left out too...not sure what they are!

 

[Izzylizzy]

I'm so sorry you experienced the loss of your sweet dad in such a horrific manner!

We had a BIL hospitalized last summer for a UTI. He was prescribed so many anti-psychotics, it turned him into a zombie to the point he couldn't even move his own body. When he was finally discharged to physical therapy, he was still on several anti-psychotic drugs. When his son found got access to his medical records and saw all the anti-psychotic meds, he called his dad's GP and the GP demanded he be taken off all the meds. We think that saved his life. His son has filed a complaint with the state medical licensing agency.

Hospitals and nursing homes use the drugs as a form of medical restraint on elderly people who develop something called "hospital delirium." There should be a law against it.

JMO

Thank you and thankfully your BIL's son took action in time.
What I don't understand is why they administer anti-psychotic meds?
These adults aren't psychotic.
If my dad was legitimately agitated then a Valium or diazepam would take the edge off,.
Though you can't believe anything they tell you and the underpaid aides are afraid of losing their jobs if they report abuse etc.
Filing a complaint is always good yet nothing changes.
Nursing homes and elder abuse has been going on for decades and all the states are useless on correcting and enforcing laws, not guidelines.
Most of today's nursing homes are owned or being bought up by huge conglomerates and our elder's care is not their concern, the dollar is.

 

[iamshadow21]

I agree with this exactly. Nature is a healing and rejuvenating resource. It can help with dysregulation and, done right, can have individuals focusing on the moment, which experts say is good for you.

To get to that point, you have to have a feeling of relative safety IMO, especially if you're a newbie. As you get more experience, your tolerance for discomfort increases (or maybe not, if you're a bear magnet).

Taking away creature comforts from a newbie in this kind of environment is cruel; almost inevitably, it will make you feel unsafe. They need adequate apparel, hats and gloves, warm and protective gear, waterproof footwear, expensive socks, immediate access to first aid, nourishing, cooked, food, a way to get washed up in warm water, a well set up toilet facility, even if temporary, filtered water, sanitary treatment for dishes, etc.. Newbie campers should be warm and dry. All of those are how you'd want to ground a positive nature experience for an inexperienced person. With these, you are well-positioned to develop team building skills and responsibility. From there, you can have expectations, issue chores, etc. (The Sierra Club had plenty of these when I used to go on group trips, like getting up extra early to fix the scrambled eggs, packing out trash, cooking dinner from the provided recipes, cleaning pots, stocking firewood, taking down wet tents, etc.)
And if you screw up? Maybe you don't get to have hot cocoa that night (which can be extreme punishment if you're living outdoors in the cold, 'cos all you can think about is food and getting warm), maybe you get the pot scrubbing chore, maybe you get to carry the trash, or the extra water (very heavy). So many options.

But these camps have turned nature into deprivation. You have to endure until you earn. Or else you have to endure until you submit. And from a leader's point of view? Leading a group of dysregulated newbies in the cold and rain of current NC, and having all their sleeping bags get wet......I don't understand the logic. What would anyone get out of this except misery and fear?

There are wonderful programs out there, I agree. I'm thinking straight away to some of the programs in my part of the world designed to connect young indigenous kids to their country and culture to help them stay on track, turn from a pattern of crime, and avoid or kick addiction. But the goal of those programs isn't to use nature as a stick to beat them with - it's to share knowledge and culture and restore something that they lost or never had because of the effects of colonialism and genocide. They're not set up to be cruel or punitive, and there's a heavy focus on sharing of wisdom between the elders who run them and the young people, to form a strong cultural bond between them and each other and the country they're on.

This is nothing like what we see here.

MOO

 

[Izzylizzy]

Whadda y'all think about the idea that the staff might have replaced the child's sleeping bag before emergency personnel arrived? The odds are it was soiled. So, how about if they inserted him into a different one? Putting him in pants wouldn't have worked because of rigor mortis, and the child's legs were bent, but I'm thinking you could thread him into a clean sleeping bag. They could have cut soiled pants off, too, and simply put clean ones next to his head.

I hope LE searched that cabin thoroughly, including the trash, and trash bins on campus.

A very possible chain of events.


I keep going back to other boys being in the cabin.

A counselor made the statement to LE is that he/they went into the cabin @ 8am (which as you pointed out is questionable) to wake the boys.

The good thing is not many people can hold up to an FBI question session and get caught in their lies sooner than later, then freak and along comes that ole' bus.

Can the coroner withhold his final report due to the young boy being a minor.
The parents may want everything out there or they may want the autopsy kept private.

 

[LadyL]

I would speculate that taking away a kid's pants could be a way to keep them from trying to run away.

oh wow never occurred to me

 

[LadyL]

Imagine being in a bivy if you're terrified of the dark. It's pitch black in one of those things.

This is a speculative scenario for how something could happen if there was no restraint aside from the bivy bag and the sleeping bag.

Supposing the bivy bag was narrow, and you were zipped into one. Then you began to flail around. You could actually get your knees wedged into the bag. If you weren't alert enough to un-wedge them, you could get trapped on your back.

We also don't know how tall the child was relative to the sleeping bag. You can get caught in the bottom of the sleeping bag (I almost suffocated like this one night in the Sierras; it got me into a nightmare that I was getting attacked by a bear and screamed; someone in a nearby tent called out to ask if I was okay, and it woke me up; saved my life). We don't know if the child's head or hands were within reach of the zipper head or the opening of the bag.

This reminds me..... SAFETY WARNING

Parents or anyone around children. If their sleeping bag is much longer than they are ('cos maybe they're growing fast, and you don't want them to soon grow out of an expensive sleeping bag), tie off some of the foot area, so they can't slide down in there. Yep, get a piece of paracord or webbing or something and tie it off. As they get older, simply tie less and less off until a tie isn't needed any more. The child's head should be up at the opening. They should be able to point their feet in the sleeping bag, but no more length than that.
Also, a too long sleeping bag will sleep very cold. So, yep, tie it off.

[bbm]

wait are you saying they are used with the occupant trapped inside completely and the top closed?

 

[scandinavian girl]

I wonder if any of the staff hired have some medical knowledge or preferably being at least a nurse. What can go wrong in the wilderness, severe allergic reactions with anaphylactic chock, snakebites and other things that needs immidiate care to save life and probably more things that I am not aware of.

 

[LadyL]

I was an LPC in my former life, never would I recommend placing children diagnosed with anxiety and/or depression in a wilderness program. How could the wilderness program fit into a treatment plan?

what's an LPC?

 

[LadyL]

Obviously this child’s death is a horrible tragedy and should never have happened. Any deficiencies should be addressed including suspension of licensure, if warranted.

I would not be surprised to learn that he may have choked and aspirated. They did mention he ate same snacks in the late evening. He may have gagged during his panic attack, vomited and then not been able to clear his airway in the closed confines of the bivy sac. Especially if he was laying flat on his back. Poor kid, did not deserve any of this and my heart goes out to him and his parents.

I was thinking the same.

 

[LadyL]

My dad went into a nursing home for a 1-2 week stay to use their physical re-hab wing for strengthening his legs.
He was 84 and wasn't on any prescribed medications.
On his 2nd night there he was given "Haldol",when I visited him the next morning he was asleep and they told me he was "agitated" and the nursing home doctor prescribed it..She never even met him ,no less knew anything about him.
Giving Hadol was their go-to policy.

I woke him up and had brought in a delish breakfast from home for him.
As he was eating he aspirated ( unbeknownst to me) and soon after stopped breathing.
I screamed or the nurse, they threw me out of the room and I called 911 and got him as he lay unconscious across the street to the hospital.
He never regained consciousness ( except for a midnight squeeze of my hand) as I lay next to him on a cot) and passed away the next morning about 10:30 am.

very sorry for your tremendous loss - I'm glad he was able to give you that squeeze

 

[MyBelle]

Thank you and thankfully your BIL's son took action in time.
What I don't understand is why they administer anti-psychotic meds?
These adults aren't psychotic.
If my dad was legitimately agitated then a Valium or diazepam would take the edge off,.
Though you can't believe anything they tell you and the underpaid aides are afraid of losing their jobs if they report abuse etc.
Filing a complaint is always good yet nothing changes.
Nursing homes and elder abuse has been going on for decades and all the states are useless on correcting and enforcing laws, not guidelines.
Most of today's nursing homes are owned or being bought up by huge conglomerates and our elder's care is not their concern, the dollar is.

They administer the anti-psychotic meds in order to restrain them from taking out their aggression on staff. Hospital delirium can cause aggression in the form of hitting staff, trying to get out of bed. And it is way too common, imo.

For four days, our BIL's son and his mother asked for the doctor to call them. No call. It was a nurse who finally tipped off the son about the anti-psychotic meds. The doctor called the mother the morning the Dr. wanted to discharge BIL to a nursing rehab facility. By then, the mother knew her husband was on anti-psychotic drugs and demanded he be weaned off them prior to discharge. Did the doctor do it? Nope. I agree with you that it is elder abuse. His son's wife now makes sure that anti-psychotics are listed as "allergies" on his hospital chart. Dad and his wife now live in their home.

This case sounds like child abuse. We don't yet know all the facts, but I'm already disgusted by the fact that a child has lost his life, and the reasons make absolutely no sense.

JMO