NC - 12-year-old dies at Trails Carolina wilderness therapy camp, Lake Toxaway, February 2024

  • #701
View attachment 484311
I'm still laughing at the slogan and the obscene cost.
This is a boy's summer camp, day or sleep over.
Check this out.

 
  • #702
  • #703
I'm still laughing at the slogan and the obscene cost.
This is a boy's summer camp, day or sleep over.
Check this out.

I would guess those fees are pretty typical for a private camp. And it will be true that for many kids, it's a lifeline. IMO there are thousands of kids out there who live in virtual isolation at home, who really benefit from a fun camp environment. I spent my teenage years counting the minutes 'til I could go. I went to a Girl Scout Camp ($70 for 2 weeks), definitely not a private camp, but I can see how camp in general helps a lot of kids.
Carolina Trails is a whole different thing, though: death march.
 
  • #704
There are actually two similar young women. The one I shared just recently filed for the first time.

The other one you are thinking of is 1:22-cv-00042-MOC-at (dismissed by father, attached)
Thanks for clarifying with great news that there are 2 filings.
Hopefully others who have also suffered abuse at Trails come forward.
 
  • #705
How terribly sad, what a tragic loss. When I was first reading this thread I thought it was one of those bile "pray away the gay" camps. It now sounds a bit like the bullying type boot camps Dr. Phil and others send kids to. I wonder if deaths are covered up sometimes. Like the army, Vanessa, and also all the deaths at Fort Hood.
 
  • #706
The vast majority of bivvy bags are one-poled. Two-poled bivvy's are rare. I'll believe LE.

Given the statements from LE observatons and counsellor's points in the documents released thus far:

- The child was forced to sleep within his sleeping bag within a bivvy bag that was on a mat (air matteress??) on the floor of the cabin exactly as all other kids had to endure their first night there;

- Counsellors attempt to wake the child and cannot - (well ... because he's dead);

- Counsellors have to get the child out of the bivvy as it is alarmed and as counsellors stated they had to let the kids out of the bags due to the alarm;

- Counsellors unlock the alarm and pull the child out of the seeping bg & bivvy bag after 'discovering' he is non-responsive; it (bivvy and sb) then gets tossed off to the side so they can go to work on ... ;

- Counsellors then apparently "attempted live saving measures" (the kid needs to be out of the bivvy and SB for that to happen) as an AR mask and CPR were found on the child by first responders;

- Child found on back with AR mask on, frozen stiff with rigor and cold (and also IAW description of "he's very cold already" given by the 911 caller) and with his knees pointed to the sky.


All of which points me to (IMO):

- This child panicked, had an anxiety attack, when locked into his alarmed & tight "sleeping quarters" for the night. Probably around 1230hrs;

- This child was then restrained while locked in that bag by *someone*;

- This child managed to curl themselves into the ever-protective fetal position while undergoing that restraint;

- This child died due to that interaction;

- *Someone* finally figured the child was still and was no longer panicking or freaking out and went about their business leaving the dead child curled into the fetal position within their locked-bivvy prison;

- Perhaps they checked at 3 and 6 am and the child seemed to be sleeping - because of course they could not actually "lay eyes-on" the child within the locked bivvy, but hey, the kid wasn't moving (because the were dead);

- They go to wake up the child and ... realize he's actually deceased;

- Pull him out of his prison, attempt CPR ("on the already "he's very cold already" child) by turning him onto his back (ergo rigored legs now pointed upwards towards the sky). Effective CPR measures can only heppen when one is chest-up;

- while someone calls 911 ... and apparently actually hangs up.

ALL IMO of course, but it fits with what's been divulged so far in the documents released.
Lividity was on his back, so the child died and was left on his back or was turned onto his back very shortly after being killed and left there. If he had been in the foetal position for hours on his side or front, the lividity would show that.
 
  • #707
How terribly sad, what a tragic loss. When I was first reading this thread I thought it was one of those bile "pray away the gay" camps. It now sounds a bit like the bullying type boot camps Dr. Phil and others send kids to. I wonder if deaths are covered up sometimes. Like the army, Vanessa, and also all the deaths at Fort Hood.
Vile not bile, sorry
 
  • #708
2015 article:

'Some programs offer to treat nearly every teen behavior imaginable, including low self-esteem, lack of motivation, trouble with teachers, poor grades, depression, confrontational or defiant behavior, substance abuse and addiction, sexual acting out, defiance toward authority, lying, manipulative behavior, entitlement, and/or video game addiction.

They enroll children with almost any learning disability or mental illness, including ADHD, ADD, Asperger’s Syndrome, bipolar disorder, anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, sexual behavior problems, reactive-attachment disorder, non-verbal learning disorder, anger management, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), developing personality disorders, and/or trouble with the law. They often assess a child's needs using nothing more than a questionnaire on the program’s web page—and then recommend immediate enrollment in their program.

Astonishingly, the “treatment” offered is almost identical for all the above conditions: a rigidly-controlled environment, strict discipline, a “levels system” of behavior change, and confrontational “transformation therapy.”

Accepted standards of treatment and plain old common sense suggest that this one-size-fits-all form of tough love “treatment” cannot possibly be suitable for children with all these different issues, disabilities and illnesses.'




I would imagine that the "treatment" might work for some individuals, but the idea that you could mix all these kids together- for example ones who are aggressive and defiant with ones who are depressed and withdrawn- and they would all get along with each other....
 
  • #709
There are actually two similar young women. The one I shared just recently filed for the first time.

The other one you are thinking of is 1:22-cv-00042-MOC-WCM (dismissed by father, attached)
How about a Class Action suit? Sock it to 'em. Take every penny, including selling whatever would be "sale-able." Then sue the owners/principals. Would that be possible?
IANAL, so ignore the idea if this wouldn't work...
 
  • #710
You know, I really wish there was such a thing as a fun positive camp to help preteens and teens with things like low self esteem, social skills, depression.

And I wish for the families struggling with severe defiance, drugs, violent behavior, etc. a professional could actually come stay with and mentor the family for awhile. Or the whole family could go to a program. You would think there would be such a thing, for the same price as these "camps."

What a world we live in. So much pain behind closed doors, and people iust don't know what to do.
 
  • #711
I don't think those boys were at a wilderness camp for troubled kids.
A fun summer camp.
Per the PR released by the camp.

The bivy may have been position where the children couldn't see. The cabins looked big in the photos and there were only 3/4 children.

I would think one immediately started CPR, then called 911. I feel sure they had radios and call for additional staff.

I wish they would release the time EMS arrived, time EMS stoped the code and the time LE started to examine the body. This is pretty far out in the middle of nowhere, I would imagine the EMS response time would be significant.
Moo
BBM

"A first responder reached the remote camp 12 minutes after being dispatched. Below is the log of the call:"


 
  • #712

Link to parents responses to the camp.


I am not at all surprised by the camp's response. Listening to other survivors' stories has pointed to these places and how they would respond to things like this. I wouldn't doubt if these parents were told false information or threatened somehow. These places have been rumored to lie and manipulate parents, children, general public and the system.

I won't believe any of those responses to the camp. Typing out responses online could be anyone.
 
  • #713
Re the death of the boy

Could it be the result of "hazing" of a newbie by other teens?

Just a thought.

It could happen at night while adults were asleep.

Strange things sometimes happen at camps.

JMO
 
  • #714
I don't think those boys were at a wilderness camp for troubled kids.
A fun summer camp.

BBM

"A first responder reached the remote camp 12 minutes after being dispatched. Below is the log of the call:"


That actually seems like a pretty fast response for such a rural area. Call at 8:09, responders there 12 minutes later, and then deputies at 8:46 to investigate the suspicious death.
 
  • #715

Within what’s known as the secure transport industry, it’s called “gooning.” Brawny men show up under the cover of darkness and force a teenager into a vehicle, taking them against their will to a boarding school, foster home or treatment center.
...
Teens who resist are often told, “We can do this the easy way or the hard way.” They might be restrained with handcuffs or zip ties. They could be blindfolded or hooded. Though a secure transport company operator was indicted last month, criminal charges are rare because the little-known industry is virtually unregulated. In fact, the indictment was for violating a restraining order, not for the transport itself.
...
The secure transport industry is regulated in just one state — Oregon. That law, implemented in 2021, prohibits the use of hoods, blindfolds and handcuffs, among other things.



It's absolutely ridiculous that this is legal. Even Oregon's law is nowhere near adequate.

If an adult who was convicted of a crime was treated this way in prison it would be a front-page scandal.
 
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  • #716

Within what’s known as the secure transport industry, it’s called “gooning.” Brawny men show up under the cover of darkness and force a teenager into a vehicle, taking them against their will to a boarding school, foster home or treatment center.
...
Teens who resist are often told, “We can do this the easy way or the hard way.” They might be restrained with handcuffs or zip ties. They could be blindfolded or hooded. Though a secure transport company operator was indicted last month, criminal charges are rare because the little-known industry is virtually unregulated. In fact, the indictment was for violating a restraining order, not for the transport itself.
...
The secure transport industry is regulated in just one state — Oregon. That law, implemented in 2021, prohibits the use of hoods, blindfolds and handcuffs, among other things.



It's absolutely ridiculous that this is legal. Even Oregon's law is nowhere near adequate.

If an adult who was convicted of a crime was treated this way in prison it would be a front-page scandal.

Imagine arranging for this to be done to your child! There is no argument or reasoning that will convince me that this is OK, that parents think this is their only hope. NO.

I would never be able to trust anyone again, if my parents could do that to me, how could I put my faith in another person, ever?. The betrayal is unforgivable, as is the justifying if it.

And you're right, if I came into your house in the middle of the night and coerced you into a vehicle under the threat of, or worse acrually under restraint, it would be kidnapping and I would be locked up, rightly so. It is abhorrent that anyone thinks this practice is OK. The ends do not justify the means, I don't care how 'scared straight' (behaviour wise) the kid ends up, the emotional trauma will shape them forever.
 
  • #717

Within what’s known as the secure transport industry, it’s called “gooning.” Brawny men show up under the cover of darkness and force a teenager into a vehicle, taking them against their will to a boarding school, foster home or treatment center.
...
Teens who resist are often told, “We can do this the easy way or the hard way.” They might be restrained with handcuffs or zip ties. They could be blindfolded or hooded. Though a secure transport company operator was indicted last month, criminal charges are rare because the little-known industry is virtually unregulated. In fact, the indictment was for violating a restraining order, not for the transport itself.
...
The secure transport industry is regulated in just one state — Oregon. That law, implemented in 2021, prohibits the use of hoods, blindfolds and handcuffs, among other things.



It's absolutely ridiculous that this is legal. Even Oregon's law is nowhere near adequate.

If an adult who was convicted of a crime was treated this way in prison it would be a front-page scandal.
I'm surprised the airlines participate in these "goonings"!
 
  • #718
I'm surprised the airlines participate in these "goonings"!
If so, I wonder if they are seated with other passengers. Or, perhaps, they are transported on a plane just for them? An extra or chartered flight?

ETA: or chartered
 
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  • #719
Deputies said on February 2, 2024, with his parent’s consent, a 12-year-old was taken by two men from New York to Trails Carolina Camp along Winding Gap Road in Lake Toxaway, North Carolina, where he was assigned to a cabin with other minors and four adult staff members.

According to deputies, they responded to the camp at 8:10 a.m. on February 3 after someone at the camp reported that the boy wasn’t breathing. Crews arrived at the scene and tried to save the child but stopped after they realized that it appeared that he had been dead for an extended amount of time. Deputies stated that camp staff reported that they had tried to perform CPR before crews arrived.
Camp not fully cooperating with investigation into 12-year-old’s death, deputies say

so this is one of those big dudes come and snatch you from your home with your parents consent to take you out in the wilderness to learn to "behave" properly places. Poor kid didn't even survive 24 hours in their care. After all we've heard about similar camps offering "wilderness therapy" why do parents still continue to engage their services??? MOO
A camp of this caliber did not have medical staff. Apparently, they have been entrusted with the care of minors. These minors either have behavioral, addictions or medical problems. Was NARCAN available? What was response time of medical attention? Lots of puzzle pieces missing.
 
  • #720
I'm surprised the airlines participate in these "goonings"!
I'm surprised, too. The Feds need to crack down. In fact, I thought they did years ago. Very disappointing to learn of these cases.

JMO
 

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