NC NC - Allen Croft, 46, Durham, 11 May 2005

[Eagle1]

What was he doing that day

Did anyone you knew act oddly before or afterwards

Had he mentioned any names

These are the questions I have.

Excellent questions, Supe.

(1) He was walking his two large dogs. (Close to home? He hadn't taken them to any park or anywhere? Was nowhere near the railroad trestle?)

(2) Did he or anyone else act oddly in any way before he was killed?

(3) Yes, had he mentioned any names, probably to his wife, so you need to try to reconcile with her or get someone you mutually know to talk to her, just for what she may know. And I'd like to add:

(4) What other activities did he have besides walking the dogs? What did the couple usually do in the evenings?

(5) Was this on a weekend, or what day of the week? Before 8 AM, right?

(6) Does the fact that the widow always kept a job seem in any way suspicious? They weren't getting along or something like that? Or she just didn't like being "home alone" during the day? Was she anxious re money?

P.S. Your Inbox is full, J4J. At least one reply is waiting, mine.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

First of all let me clarify, there were investigators mentioned, involved in both cases....I am aware the police were on scene at Janet's murder, the sheriff's was at mine, but they share some of the same investigators and spokespersons.....

I don't know how it is in NC but where I am, the Sheriff's office is the Sheriff's office and the police department is the police department. When someone is employed by one, that is where they work. They are not shared between the two departments. I even question whether there would be ethical problems caused by having the same people working for both entities. In any case, I am interested in helping you however I can. If you know of the names of the officers that you believe are shared between these two departments, please let me know. PM them to me if you like. However, I really believe that you might be mistaken. I could be wrong though - I certainly don't know how all things are done in all places.

And again - this isn't to criticize. It's to help start back at square one and sort out the facts.

 

[Eagle1]

Don't forget SD's and my questions, and the one above, please. I'm sure everyone would like to know those things. Did he take his dogs home is pretty important. Then he would have left again to go to work. Does the widow still have the dogs? His co-workers said he never came to work? I think it's important to know where he walked his dogs, right on their block or if he took them somewhere in his car and walked there.

Have the dogs been reported missing?

If you ever did get accused of something and arrested, you'd have your daughter keep us informed, right? Not that I think it will happen. Their knowing you have others to carry on probably would prevent that. They don't know how much that woman reporter and probably some others, knows, right? They'd go after them before you? Something must be happening today, the tornado in NC? Hope you're okay. I heard 5 people were killed. Where are you, Rhonda?

Once we get the facts sorted out, we may get additional ideas. For instance, is there still Legal Aid? And Community Centers having lawyers once a month or every three months, who could refer you to someone? You're not a senior citizen, right?

 

[Justice4Jack]

Ok, where to start....

From what we was told, he waslast seen by a neighbor walking his dogs, they didn't mention where...I know she had one dog euthanized, because it was a "request he made in the note." The dog had been ill, and he "didn't want her, his wife to have to care for it after he was gone." Cough,choke...

I have no idea where the other one is, but they was found in a room in their house locked in?!

He was expected at work, and his wife said she seen him before she left for work....He was found at 5:30 pm, supposedly 6 hrs prior to being shot. He supposedly walked 3 miles into the woods with a loaded 357, the holster was still in a nightstand in their room...

He supposedly shot himself because he "thought" he may have MS, and din't want to be a burdern to his wife... Cough, choke again....He did NOT have MS, nor anything other than carpel tunnel, from being a computer programmer, and went to work the day before with hand splints?! And again, he was completely left handed, played golf and tennis left handed, but was shot in the right temple, again, with NO powdering or tattooing, and NO splatter anywhere on him or his clothes...

The car was left at his home, and there is something there too I cannot say to let some key evidence out...

The detective quoted, when his body was found, his wife's reaction was STOIC, then she asked what to do with his remains?!?!?! Choke, choke, gag!!

He drove a Honda civic, she had a 6,000 suv...in Feb,she bought herself a 50,000 Lexus, paid in full...

My brother was WISE with his money, and is how he, we were raised, and is why he had a million saved, and the home paid in full....

If anyone wants to look up the estate it is on the Durham county deeds page.
His address was 106 Carlion....


Again, I am not afraid of them coming after me, I have been too public, and am sure they would like to!

 

[Eagle1]

Thank you so much for being able to give us some details. Except about the "note". There was a "suicide" note? His handwriting? Had you witnessed his concern about MS, and was it mentioned in the note, or did she just claim he was depressed about that? People where he worked didn't say anything like that or notice any depression?

Maybe I should list some obvious questions, and I'm sure others will have better ones.

(1) Note (His handwriting or typed? Long one? You personally saw it?)

(2) Footprints in the woods? Two sets?

(3) No depression noticed by family/friends?

(4) Very ODD time to go hunting, when he was expected at work! Did he normally walk the dogs in the woods?

(5) Have you talked to any of the people SHE'd worked with for 7 or 8 yrs?
And at the new job she only kept for a short time? Did she maybe feel they were suspicious of her, reason she left? Had she been acting any different or did she talk about troubles in the marriage?

(6) You did tell LE that your brother was left-handed? And his co-workers would testify to that, even if his wife might not? If they didn't know that, they'd assume suicide.

(7) His being cleaned up afterwards shows it wasn't suicide, right? Maybe someone used some kind of covering preventively so there were none of the usual residues? Dead people can't clean up their remains or a crime scene.

(8.) Does it seem like she had someone in the house when Jack returned from walking his dogs, who made him lock them in a room, then took him around the woods to the other side, 3 miles away, and dumped him off the trestle, already cleaned up?

(9) How was he found so soon? He was in plain sight from a road? There's a road that goes there, right? It wasn't necessarily a neighbor who found him, just someone driving by?

(10) Is that officer still there who told you she was "stoic"? Could you take your daughter or your mother or someone with you and talk to him again? Does it seem like LE people were afraid to do more investigating for some reason, or protecting one of their own to keep their jobs?

William Casey, a former head of CIA if I'm not mistaken, wrote a book expose of that "renegade" CIA titled "Honorable Men", about the Vietnam War if I'm not mistaken.

Somewhere I read something about his being forced to write a note and being taken out in a small boat, evidently knowing he wasn't coming back. Can't remember if he "fell" overboard or what. And if someone was just speculating because he'd written the book.

Could your brother have been involved with any "clandestine" people or ordinary bad guys because of his being a programmer for IBM? Did the widow personally know any of the bad cop guns for hire, alleged in the newspaper article? We're looking for a missing link. Was she very sociable? I'm guessing no. Neither of them ever went to bars? You saw the "note", and did it look like his handwriting?

Finally, sorry to have to ask but it's a big part of the total picture, was your brother a youngest, reason he saved his money and didn't help you out? His wife couldn't spend it to run the house either? Did they go places together? To church? Had he quit going when he grew up? Does she go now? They had absolutely no friends together? I'm sure they didn't frequent bars, right? If they did, that's probably where contact was made with the killer, I'm sure you realize, unless it was business connected. Interesting case. Thanks for letting us try our hand with it.

Quoting a section of your post, copy/paste, where I think you meant to say 6 hrs AFTER instead of "prior to"......................................................

" I have no idea where the other one (dog) is, but they was found in a room in their house locked in?!

He was expected at work, and his wife said she seen him before she left for work....He was found at 5:30 pm, supposedly 6 hrs prior to being shot. He supposedly walked 3 miles into the woods with a loaded 357, the holster was still in a nightstand in their room...

He supposedly shot himself because he "thought" he may have MS, and din't want to be a burdern to his wife... Cough, choke again....He did NOT have MS, nor anything other than carpel tunnel, from being a computer programmer, and went to work the day before with hand splints?! And again, he was completely left handed, played golf and tennis left handed, but was shot in the right temple, again, with NO powdering or tattooing, and NO splatter anywhere on him or his clothes...

The car was left at his home, and there is something there too I cannot say to let some key evidence out...

The detective quoted, when his body was found, his wife's reaction was STOIC, then she asked what to do with his remains?!?!?! " ....................

About the car and key evidence, aren't you already letting us in on a lot of key evidence? Why would that be any different? Any strange FINGERprints, FOOTprints? Did they keep his fingerprints on file to compare with any they might find, in his car or on doorknobs or his gun? If the killer covered him, I'm sure he knew how not to leave fingerprints but no harm in asking.

 

[Eagle1]

Doesn't it sound like this cop was somewhat concerned about her stoicism, the fact that he'd tell you that and tell you as much as he did? Most of them are honest, and risking their lives for us every day.

As most everyone is saying in the Ramsey case, when people make excuses not to answer questions, you can't blame them for threatening to charge you. This has taken up about 7 pgs of OUR time already, when we've lost loved ones too, who were our ONLYs and we're as passionate as it's acceptable to be, knowing we're important as anyone.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

About the car and key evidence, aren't you already letting us in on a lot of key evidence? Why would that be any different?

I agree. And if no one is investigating this case, why would any "evidence" need to be held back at all?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

J4J, many of us have been trying to help you. You've been so forthcoming with so much information yet there is still stuff that you won't tell us. Not only that but it seems like there are now continuations of pm's being discussed on the board(?). If we don't know the whole story, then there's sadly nothing more that we can do for you. It's up to you now to either take the advice that we've given you or to tell us all of the information needed to begin to formulate what might have happened.

Also, it seems that you've already got your mind made up about what happened. As passionate as you are about this, I cannot stress how important it is for you to take a step back, start back at the beginning and see where the evidence takes you - step by step. You've got to let go (just for now perhaps) the notion that his wife was no good and was involved in the death. I hate to say it but maybe she moved and changed her number because of the hostility. If you decided early on that she was somehow involved, and treated her that way, then I honestly can't blame her for wanting to get as far away from that treatment as possible. I can't help but think that she might be in mourning as well and if she is, I can't imagine how awful it must be to be suspected of involvement at the same time. I also must say that while the thought of cremation might be painful to you, it is a valid option after death. I don't think that it implies at all that he was treated like an animal. Perhaps you feel that you should have been consulted about the arrangements after his death. Perhaps you have a valid point there - I'm no one to make that determination. However, since she was his wife, it was ultimately her decision to make and since very many people choose cremation, I don't think that we should base too many of our opinions on that at this point. It is an important fact to keep in mind. But other than that, I hope that you can put aside the pain from that, knowing that perhaps Jack and his wife discussed that in the past and maybe that was even Jack's choice.

Finally, you've also got to be willing to consider things that might be painful for you. For example, how did he have so much money at his age? I know that you've said that it's because he was frugal and had no children, etc., and that sounds entirely possible. Yet a good investigator would have to ask the obvious question - is it possible that he was involved in something lucrative yet dangerous? Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that he was. I'm using it as an example of the types of angles that LE would be looking into. To effectively investigate this as LE would, you have no choice but to put your pain and personal feelings aside.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

So sorry for upsetting you, Rhonda. I was tactless there, just wanted to know the answer. So he DID help you. And he DID let his wife have a nice home.

This is what I meant in my last post. J4J is going to have to be able and willing to consider things that might be painful and to answer questions without getting hostile. People can't worry about "walking on eggshells" when investigating a possible murder.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

...the two dogs were in a LOCKED room.

I don't take much from this information at this point. Many people lock their dogs up when they leave for work. I've known many mid-size to large dogs that have been able to stand on their hind legs and open a door.

 

[Eagle1]

I agree. And if no one is investigating this case, why would any "evidence" need to be held back at all?

I think this point you're making is evidently key to the whole thing, if anyone can figure out what that might mean. I've got to be vague, might jeopardize something.

 

[Justice4Jack]

I have said enough, and will not reply again on certain facts, as I do NOT wish to jeopardize a future trial.....


Just remember my family, and millions of us in the same boat...
Love,
Rhonda

 

[Eagle1]

I think this point you're making is evidently key to the whole thing, if anyone can figure out what that might mean. I've got to be vague, might jeopardize something.

Amen again, Jersey Girl, and a few others, who were evidently on their way out.

If any lawyers advised that a coherent story not be told, (and we were told no lawyers were consulted,couldn't afford to, and no help of any kind was available, correct?) I feel it was unusually, incredibly arrogant to be just deliberately wasting our valuable time, that we were just being jerked around and we all fell for it. Shall we have a good laugh at ourselves? And chalk it up to experience? At least we're second only to the FBI.

I myself advised in a PM reply that most lawyers advertize a free 30-minute first consultation, but as far as we know, none of our attempts were acknowledged, much less acted upon.

My guess about the car is that the keys were just left in it. That's where we ended up if we want to make up our own continuation ending. We're pretty good at that, doing it in the Ramsey case, right? They're saying JR will be on 48 Hours.

I haven't watched 48 Hours in so long I forget what day of the week that is. Maybe every night? Some say he's competing with OJ for most publicity.

If I were told by so many people that I'm not competently articulating my story, would I too end up saying "It's a secret", or "You just can't understand it"? Would any of us? JMO.

 

[pardilia]

IMHO, it sounds more like J4J is still grieving and unwilling to accept what happened. I have been 'interested' from the start, but to be honest, its been way too difficult to try and follow what has been said. Trying to read this thread gave me a headache.

I would think the first step to trying to get help from other people would be to figure out what to say coherently and effectively - which I believe has been stated numerous times already.

J4J, if you truly believe you need help with your situation, then don't give up. Take a deep breath, write out everything you feel you need to say on paper, then go over it again. Organize your thoughts and leave your personal judgments as to people's characters out of it. You do not want to come across as overly emotional, nor do you want your personal feelings influencing the people who are helping you. While its understandable to be upset, if you truly want to find the answers you need to be able to do this...and you need to understand that the answer might not be what you are looking for.

 

[Justice4Jack]

There are certain facts I cannot bring forth, that goes without saying! To say I have been anything but truthful is a slap in my face!


Sorry to have given anybody a headache! God forbid ANY family should have to suffer as this!!! The tragedy is, there are far too many!!!!!!


Our lives are forever changed, and not for the better!!! I have been through A LOT in my life, but this has been a living nightmare, and to furthur have my motives questioned is appalling, and I consider it to be insulting!!!!

I am not apologizing for my passion, dedication, and reasoning!!! I came here asking for help, not ridiculed!!! And I do appreciate the advice I have been given, unfortunately I have not made contact with the right person yet, but am praying the FBI will take all of my facts, and then the truth will be told!!!!

I received the one report just several months ago, and it has felt like a real version of the Twilight Zone.....So much to take in, then so much to act upon!!!

I mean no disrespect to anyone, I am just doing all that I possibly can alone, and it has been a road I wished NOBODY had to travel, and my heart goes out to EVERY family!!!!

Holidays are the worst!!!! While the world spins on, we are left with a black hole, and enormous pain, and are supposed to act happy, when inside we are holding back screams.......

Tears?! An ocean of them, then the process of seeking justice another nightmare!!!!

And to be honest, the last few posts have been difficult, as I said, there ARE certain facts that MUST be kept silent, as in any case as this!!!!

Then to question my entire dilemma sickens me furthur......For the love of God, had I thought he had killed himself I could live through this and move forward with my life, but through my painful quest to seek answers, the truth was ignored!!!!

I will NEVER give up, again not just for my brother, but for each family and loved one that has been torn apart by an apathetic system, and corrupt officials!!!!!

 

[rashomon]

Rhonda, so sorry to hear about the ordeal you and your family must have been going through. My heart goes out to you.

You suspect that your brother was murdered, and that he was murdered for his money.
If this is your suspicion, you should ask yourself the tough question: is there anyone who you think was actually going to profit from his death? Business partner/business rival/wife etc. (Sorry about bringing up the spouse, but sad as it is, one should leave no stone unturned if one wants to find out what happened).
For a (first-degree) murderer always seeks profit in some way.
I haven't had time to read through the whole thread yet, but was your brother married? If yes, what is his wife's opinion? Does she think it was suicide? Does she want this case further investigated too?

 

[Dr. Doogie]

J4J:

It is a violation of the Terms of Service (TOS) of Websleuth to post a PM without the permission of the author. You may want to remove that portion of your post to avoid issues with the admins. You can summarize what was PMed without quoting from it and stay within the rules.

I share the frustration that other members have expressed here in the last few days. Nobody doubts your pain and suffering. However, after you have expressed that pain and suffering and members have asked specific questions that may be helpful in uncovering what happened to your brother, you have given vague answers, followed by more posts about how much you are suffering (again!). We understand - it is just if that is all that you focus on, it is useless for any of us to participate on this thread.

Imagine that you are an insurance adjuster who gets a phone call from someone who wants to file a claim and everytime you try and get details of the accident, the caller tells you how upset they are about the accident. You continue to ask relevant questions only to hear how upset the caller is over and over. Eventually, you would give up. That is where I think we are at with this thread.

J4J, have you ever stopped to consider in a quiet moment that maybe the local LE's lack of interest in your brother and seeming hostility toward you is not based on incompetence or corruption, but is a direct result of exactly this same frustration? I do not doubt your motivation is justice, but I truely question your methods. Your passion may motivate you, but it is extremely frustrating to those of us who would like to help.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Maybe you should go to a clinic, since you seem to have so much time to involve yourself into someone else's suffering!!!! Is that why you came to this site?!?!

J4J, I totally understand your frustration. But I want to say two things.

1) I find the above statement personally offensive. Many of us are here at this site because we care about people and their suffering. We want to help in any way that we can. Many of us have been through suffering of our own and this is almost like a support group. To imply that people that spend time here need some sort of psychological help is lashing out at the very people that have been trying to offer you advice.

2) This thread has gotten way out of control. If there are people that you don't want to hear from, use the "ignore" feature that WS provides. Cutting & pasting pm's seems vindictive.

Please don't forget that many of us care. But we are also frustrated that we've done all we can in the way of advice and it doesn't seem to have gotten you any closer to justice. Many of us are simply banging our heads over this situation as we just don't know what we can do to help.

I truly wish you the very best of luck and hope you'll keep the thread updated once there is progress.

 

[pardilia]

Then to question my entire dilemma sickens me furthur......For the love of God, had I thought he had killed himself I could live through this and move forward with my life, but through my painful quest to seek answers, the truth was ignored!!!!

No one is questioning your belief that its a murder. We're trying to figure out exactly what the facts are and its a very difficult task weeding out the facts from all of your emotional outbursts and accusations. No one is saying you do not have the right to be emotional, we're trying to explain to you that it is difficult to fully grasp and comprehend the bare facts of the matter when they're surrounded with so much other 'stuff'.

What I meant by my post is that your belief of his wife's involvement may not be correct - as others have tried to point out. In order to help you, we need to know *just* the facts and more about him, his friends, etc.

We all understand you are still very upset and traumatized by what has happened to you. However, you need to also understand that in order for anyone to help you, that you need to be able to convey the facts in a organized and coherent and at least somewhat rational manner. This is true not just for this forum, but for anyone you approach for help.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

It seems that either the admins or J4J have removed J4J's post that contained the improper posting of a PM. To whoever did it, thank you.

The sad thing about the implosion of this thread is that it sounds like there was an actual crime that was committed and is not being persued by the authorities. Unfortunately, personalities have gotten in the way of justice.