NC NC - Asha Degree, 9, Shelby, 14 Feb 2000 #2

[Proud Country Gal]

Family linked to Asha Degree case shares their side of the story

New voices emerge in the long-standing investigation of Asha Degree's disappearance, with the Dedmon family now speaking through a spokesperson.

www.wcnc.com

Family linked to Asha Degree case shares their side of the story
New voices emerge in the long-standing investigation of Asha Degree's disappearance, with the Dedmon family now speaking through a spokesperson.

 

[maamager]

after marinating on this for a few, i think Skip Foster is a huge mistake for the Dedmons. in my case, he didn’t see doubt but quite the opposite — he has affirmed my opinion even more that the Dedmons are involved with Asha Degree’s case.

imo, if my family were in this position and innocent, i wouldn’t consider hiring anyone but legal counsel. everyone knows if you’re guilty, you should lawyer up, and you’d think this would be especially important if you’re innocent? PR and crisis management reads to me like they’re trying to get ahead of something forthcoming. imo.
SF says, “without the Rambler, there is no evidence” conveniently disregarding literal DNA evidence. ouch. not a great look, Skip.

speaking of DNA, SF questions the viability of DNA in regard to his clients. uh, Skip? if the DNA is too corroded, they couldn’t use it. advanced aging of DNA doesn’t report false sequences?

he also points out that the Dedmons didn’t own the car at that time; however, as someone who has literally just bought a used car, i was driving it well before i got everything buttoned up for ownership transfer. i’d like to know how they came to ownership or when the bill of sale was signed.

it’s documented that the DSS nurse reported that LD drove patients around in an unsafe vehicle. Lizzie herself admits to driving a Rambler.

moreover, also curious to me that the previous owner bought the car in 1999. fwiw

SF explains away the texts by citing fear and nervousness, but that doesn’t explain for me why someone would be worried about going down with their father. just odd.

maybe — just maybe i’d believe something to the tune of, “the police are determined to get my father for this crime he didn’t do and i’m not going to be dragged down with him,” but Skip doesn’t go that route — just nerves, nothing to see here. huh? he could have also pointed out how the texts are just slices from a conversation perhaps taken out of context, but he doesn’t even say that.

the Dedmons have to be involved in some way, that’s my opinion. i hope answers are on the horizon for the Degree family who have suffered too much for too long

 

[Cedars]

That's a different scenario regarding burden of proof to connect the two DNA samples they were now able to link.

I don't think it's a big difference, both connect Asha's possessions to this family in a way that's beyond coincidence.

 

[Cedars]

he’s throwing out a counter theory that the Dedmon kids were involved in a hit-and-run and their parents helped cover it up.

I think he puts that forth as his interpretion of the 'police theory'.

IMO, that is a misunderstanding (or deliberate disinformation) of the purpose of a search warrant.

At the stage of a search warrant, police should not be attached to a theory of the crime. They should have an open mind in order to follow the evidence wherever it leads them.

The probable cause just lists the evidence they have gathered that justifies their need to search a private property. eg that a green car possibly on the property has been associated with two people whose DNA has been found with her suspiciously discarded possessions.

The FBI invented criminal profiling. That would point to a lone male or possibly two males, with the usual motives..
.
JMO

 

[lebvidox]

I don't think it's a big difference, both connect Asha's possessions to this family in a way that's beyond coincidence.

My point was that the most relevant DNA would be of person who had contact with the trash bag, not a hair stem of a girl found in an undershirt inside the bookbag (this could be ruled out as an innocent transfer, because of course there were plenty of other DNA samples in those items). The green car was the common link they could have established between the two samples they presented in the search warrant.

 

[maamager]

I think he puts that forth as his interpretion of the 'police theory'.

IMO, that is a misunderstanding (or deliberate disinformation) of the purpose of a search warrant.

At the stage of a search warrant, police should not be attached to a theory of the crime. They should have an open mind in order to follow the evidence wherever it leads them.

The probable cause just lists the evidence they have gathered that justifies their need to search a private property. eg that a green car possibly on the property has been associated with two people whose DNA has been found with her suspiciously discarded possessions.

The FBI invented criminal profiling. That would point to a lone male or possibly two males, with the usual motives..
.
JMO

snipped by me

yes, i think i worded this poorly! i meant SF is literally discarding that theory and stressing his narrative.

you make excellent points and i agree!

 

[maamager]

My point was that the most relevant DNA would be of person who had contact with the trash bag, not a hair stem of a girl found in an undershirt inside the bookbag (this could be ruled out as an innocent transfer, because of course there were plenty of other DNA samples in those items). The green car was the common link they could have established between the two samples they presented in the search warrant.

if this was your point, then i respectfully disagree. the undershirt DNA found in AD’s book bag. her double bagged backpack. the one that was hidden out of plain sight.

it is just as important, if not more. imo of course.

 

[lebvidox]

if this was your point, then i respectfully disagree. the undershirt DNA found in AD’s book bag is just as important, if not more. imo of course.

Looking at the search warrant, they needed to connect two of the samples (amongst others) to convince a judge to allow them to go over this particular property. The green car provided a possible link, and a similar car was found to be parked there. If you disregard the green car and the Underhill sample, you can't possibly build a case to go against this people because a strand of their daughter's hair, 13 y.o. at the time, was found in an undershirt. There could be many other samples in that bookbag alone and there were previously ruled out as innocent transfers.

 

[Cedars]

(this could be ruled out as an innocent transfer, because of course there were plenty of other DNA samples in those items).

You mean a jury would rule it out? I think that would very much depend on what other evidence was presented at a trial.

 

[lebvidox]

You mean a jury would rule it out? I think that would very much depend on what other evidence was presented at a trial.

Think about it this way...

The body of a woman is found in a public park. She was raped and killed. There was no semen inside her. The police assume the killer used a condom. 10 condoms are found discarded in the area. The police can't know if the killer took his condom with him, or if these DNA samples could belong to him. You can't rule out, but you can't use any of them to determine a main investigative avenue yet. Getting to a match of the 10 DNAs will give the police nothing to push for a search warrant decades later: you can't make sense of what this means.

And there are other DNA evidence besides the condoms. There was a hair strand of a guy in the victim's shirt. This guy had to have had contact with the victim, though you don't know if that also couldn't be an innocent transfer (he hooked up with her consensually in a night club before she left and entered the park to get to the subway). If at some point you can establish the hair and one of the condom's semen belonged to guys who were roommates at the time and had a possible history of approaching girls for a threesome, then you might have enough to build a possible theory for a search warrant.

Without a link, those are unrelated pieces of evidence.

 

[Soulmagent]

Think about it this way...

The body of a woman is found in a public park. She was raped and killed. There was no semen inside her. The police assume the killer used a condom. 10 condoms are found discarded in the area. The police can't know if the killer took his condom with him, or if these DNA samples could belong to him. You can't rule out, but you can't use any of them to determine a main investigative avenue yet. Getting to a match of the 10 DNAs will give the police nothing to push for a search warrant decades later: you can't make sense of what this means.

And there are other DNA evidence besides the condoms. There was a hair strand of a guy in the victim's shirt. This guy had to have had contact with the victim, though you don't know if that also couldn't be an innocent transfer (he hooked up with her consensually in a night club before she left and entered the park to get to the subway). If at some point you can establish the hair and one of the condom's semen belonged to guys who were roommates at the time and had a possible history of approaching girls for a threesome, then you might have enough to build a possible theory for a search warrant.

Without a link, those are unrelated pieces of evidence.

The victims Dna could be on any of them those 10 condemns. I am off the idea the we just test all the prophylactics we find in the park.
One off the street makes us safer in our sheets.

One hair in the victims shirt , could have came for the local laundry mat , or if her cousin come over and used her dyer.
As an investigator if I were one , I would be collecting used condemns in a park and gagging the entire time.
Also what did you mean with this statement at the end of your paragraph of this post?

''Getting to a match of the 10 DNAs will give the police nothing to push for a search warrant decades later: you can't make sense of what this means.''

 

[Cedars]

then you might have enough to build a possible theory for a search warrant.

Without a link, those are unrelated pieces of evidence.

Actually, I don't want to think about that particularly unpleasantly-detailed scenario and skipped over it.

The judge granted the FBI a search warrant, based on the evidence they presented.

 

[lebvidox]

The victims Dna could be on any of them those 10 condemns. I am off the idea the we just test all the prophylactics we find in the park.
One off the street makes us safer in our sheets.

You'd be surprised. In crime scenes, a lot of junk is collected for the sake of 'maybe this means something'. They are just stored for the sake of 'what if'. You can't even know if the killer's DNA was left there after he had sex with some other person an hour before. Let's say the victim is a male, and this is 1980s Central Park: many, many men having sex with other men over there. Who's to say if this can lead to a killer or not?

In a first look at a crime scene, it's better to be safe than sorry. That's how you get to cops taking pictures of random sticks when a body is found in the woods and someone down the road will say "see, those could be representing runes, this could be a ritualistic crime" etc

 

[lebvidox]

Actually, I don't want to think about that particularly unpleasantly-detailed scenario and skipped over it.

The judge granted the FBI a search warrant, based on the evidence they presented.

I actually don't remember if it was the FBI that submitted the search warrant. The warrant itself had to be drafted carefully because they don't want to risk it being ruled not valid and anything found in the property to be discarded. I was talking about the need to establish a connection between two samples to build a viable theory - at this point of the investigation, the girl's DNA by itself wouldn't allow them to go after the Dedmons.

 

[lebvidox]

The victims Dna could be on any of them those 10 condemns. I am off the idea the we just test all the prophylactics we find in the park.
One off the street makes us safer in our sheets.

One hair in the victims shirt , could have came for the local laundry mat , or if her cousin come over and used her dyer.
As an investigator if I were one , I would be collecting used condemns in a park and gagging the entire time.
Also what did you mean with this statement at the end of your paragraph of this post?

''Getting to a match of the 10 DNAs will give the police nothing to push for a search warrant decades later: you can't make sense of what this means.''

Just saw your edit. When I said ''Getting to a match of the 10 DNAs will give the police nothing to push for a search warrant decades later: you can't make sense of what this means.'', my intention was that even if the police were able to identify the 10 DNAs in those condoms discarded in the park, they couldn't build a case for a search warrant to go after any of them without additional evidence, such as: an eyewitness statement when the crime was committed saying a car of this model and color drove off the area, the confirmation one of the 10 guys owned a similar car at the time etc etc

 

[Soulmagent]

You'd be surprised. In crime scenes, a lot of junk is collected for the sake of 'maybe this means something'. They are just stored for the sake of 'what if'. You can't even know if the killer's DNA was left there after he had sex with some other person an hour before. Let's say the victim is a male, and this is 1980s Central Park: many, many men having sex with other men over there. Who's to say if this can lead to a killer or not?

In a first look at a crime scene, it's better to be safe than sorry. That's how you get to cops taking pictures of random sticks when a body is found in the woods and someone down the road will say "see, those could be representing runes, this could be a ritualistic crime" etc

I don't want random stick pictures. I want them to collect all the 10 condoms.
Just in case ,one of them is connected to the victim and the culprit. If not ,fine.
Seriously .

 

[lebvidox]

I don't want random stick pictures. I want them to collect all the 10 condoms.
Just in case ,one of them is connected to the victim and the culprit. If not ,fine.
Seriously .

I'm not disagreeing with you. They SHOULD collect the 10 condoms. But a DNA match (who's semen was inside the condom) can't help the police to stir the investigation towards this particular person if they can't yet establish the meaning of this evidence. This was a hypo to say that the Dedmon daughter's hair in one of the shirts would not be enough for the police to go forward with a search warrant without the green car link and a possible connection to Underhill. As you've said, the girl's hair could be ruled out as an innocent transfer (One hair in the victims shirt , could have came for the local laundry mat).

 

[Soulmagent]

Just saw your edit. When I said ''Getting to a match of the 10 DNAs will give the police nothing to push for a search warrant decades later: you can't make sense of what this means.'', my intention was that even if the police were able to identify the 10 DNAs in those condoms discarded in the park, they couldn't build a case for a search warrant to go after any of them without additional evidence, such as: an eyewitness statement when the crime was committed saying a car of this model and color drove off the area, the confirmation one of the 10 guys owned a similar car at the time etc etc

Its all good.
I wanted to know what you meant by ,":you cant make sense of what this means . ''
I just want to point out that if a condemn was found in the park with a 9 year olds DNA on it, we would have a clear direction of where to look for a suspect.
In no normal world is that an acceptable fact , so .. the case would move forward.

 

[lebvidox]

Its all good.
I wanted to know what you meant by ,":you cant make sense of what this means . ''
I just want to point out that if a condemn was found in the park with a 9 year olds DNA on it, we would have a clear direction to look for a suspect.
In no normal world is that an acceptable fact , so .. the case would move forward.

(To be clear, I never pictured the victim in this hypo as a child lol.)

But getting back to Asha's case: we know, for instance, that many items were collected around the area where the trash bags containing Asha's book bag was found (it's disclosed in the search warrant). You don't know how long ago those trash bags were discarded. There's a Coke can nearby, a cigarette butt etc. It's hard to make sense of all of this.

At some point, the saliva DNA found in the Coke can discarded in the site the trash bag was found points to a pedophile whose DNA was put into CODIS. That can be something, or just an unrelated predator etc.

The trash bag itself had been manipulated by the people who found it, and that's transfer DNA already. You can rule out some of the workers. It was a construction site, so if one of the workers was an unregistered immigrant that didn't come forward to speak with the police, that's already a sample you can't make sense of or rule out as an innocent transfer or not...

Some items in Asha's bookbag weren't identified by her parents as belonging to her, so the hair of a 13 y.o. found in an undershirt could have been transferred from a different item. It's all open to interpretation and investigators could have many alternative theories.

People are excited about the Dedmons being named as suspects in a high-profile case that had no fresh leads for decades, I get it. But, objectively, my view of the current state of the investigation is that the girl's hair and the green car 'sighting' is all investigators have to go on. They MUST pursue this. That doesn't mean they BELIEVE these people were involved, it's just the best they could get so far.

 

[Soulmagent]

Think about it this way...

The body of a woman is found in a public park. She was raped and killed. There was no semen inside her. The police assume the killer used a condom. 10 condoms are found discarded in the area. The police can't know if the killer took his condom with him, or if these DNA samples could belong to him. You can't rule out, but you can't use any of them to determine a main investigative avenue yet. Getting to a match of the 10 DNAs will give the police nothing to push for a search warrant decades later: you can't make sense of what this means.

And there are other DNA evidence besides the condoms. There was a hair strand of a guy in the victim's shirt. This guy had to have had contact with the victim, though you don't know if that also couldn't be an innocent transfer (he hooked up with her consensually in a night club before she left and entered the park to get to the subway). If at some point you can establish the hair and one of the condom's semen belonged to guys who were roommates at the time and had a possible history of approaching girls for a threesome, then you might have enough to build a possible theory for a search warrant.

Without a link, those are unrelated pieces of evidence.

Also , I cannot turn this missing little kids case into one that compares to a rape of a grown woman in a park. Her case would have more to do with her choices and why she was in the park. Asha was 9!
Police can assume whatever they would like , it is kind of why we have detectives.
If the police are looking at Asha's case as if she was a grown woman instead as an at risk youth, that is pretty sick.