NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #3

[Durhamncheese]

As they say in calculus, show your work here.
Finish the following sentence.
A teenager who is having sex with a bloody corpse is going to be grossed out over a tampon because __________________________________________________.

 

[Durhamncheese]

I

In my opinion, the type of person who would beat a woman to death in the process of some kind of attempted assault is also exactly the type of person who would find a period so disgusting and unclean that he would not want to sexually assault them.

It's also possible that he fully intended to sexually assault her but got spooked by some nearby noise, like neighbors returning to their apartment and fled.

I personally believe that the entire assault was not well-planned and MESO freaked out and beat her once they encountered each other before he could move on to whatever else he was planning to do. She may have only screamed briefly before being hit over the head. College apartments are loud AF and it's also possible anyone who would've been close enough to hear any screaming was either out for the night with friends or in a deep sleep because they had been drinking earlier in the evening.

Jenny, It was not a "college apartment" where they lived. The downstairs neighbor was a middle aged woman living by herself. It was not then, and not now, a loud or "college-y" environment.

 

[CADwrest]

MESO is only charged with one count of criminal activity: murder. Nothing related to a rape.
This means there was no sexual assault, which would have been confirmed in the autopsy report.
But they say the reason he was arrested is because of the DNA on Faith.
What the police and DA are saying is that he had consensual sex with her, and then afterwards brutally beat her to death?

Police have said different things about this going back years. In different interviews, they've said she was sexually assaulted and "more than likely" raped (paraphrase). They've said very clearly that there was semen on her, and that it matched the DNA on the murder note (Time Out bag), the pen (used to write the note), and the rum bottle (presumably the murder weapon, though in some question now). The DNA was used to generate the Parabon image, which is a dead ringer for MESO. So, what can we glean from this?
1. MESO definitely killed her. Faith clearly had no strong connection to him (ie. he wasn't a friend/acquaintance of hers that anyone knew about), since investigators spent years talking to anyone who did, then broadened their scope to talk to hundreds more who had a degree or two of separation from her. Many of those people also voluntarily had their DNA taken. So the fact that his DNA is in the apartment, on items strongly associated with the crime, tells us something important. This is the single most important thing to know about this case.
2. As to the rape part, the language used regarding it ("more than likely") points to the exact sequence not being clear to the investigators, either. At a guess, she probably doesn't have trauma to her genital region consistent with violently resisting; the autopsy report some of us have seen doesn't mention that (but it doesn't actually say anything about that, so there maybe be a portion of it expunged). Did they have consensual sex and something went very wrong after? Did her intimidate her into sex and then kill her after? Did he hit her over the head, then rape her while she was unresponsive, and then only realize he'd mortal wounded her afterwards (my current theory)? We don't know. We can try to read the tea leaves, but the DA not adding the charge doesn't mean it definitely didn't happen..
3. As to KR, the family has been suspicious of her since very shortly after the murder. Notably, though, CHPD has said she's been cooperative in the investigation and have, on one occasion, out and out said she isn't a suspect. Personal opinion: Nothing she did that night isn't readily explainable as a drunk 20 year-old college girl going through boy drama and making bad decisions. With the facts we know, that makes far more sense than she's some master assassin that has eluded arrest for almost 12 years.
I'm as frustrated as anyone that nothing has happened, but unfortunately, there is precedent for it, right here in Chapel Hill. On February 10, 2015, Craig Hicks shot three people in an apartment complex. He turned himself in and confessed that night. He was indicted February 16th. His trial took place June 12th... 2019. This was a case of intense national interest, where the perp gave a confession, and it still took Durham (just like this case, it happened in Chapel Hill, but Durham county was the prosecuting authority) 4 years to bring the case to trial.
And incidentally, they only charged him with 3 counts of first-degree murder, they didn't load him up with a bunch of other charges either.

 

[Sjöberg]

Google - "period sex" "men" Example: "A whole 45 percent of women have had a male partner turn down sex while they were on their period." Example: We surveyed over 500 people about period sex | The Fornix | Flex
Google - "additional charges" "added later" Example: Suspects facing additional charges in Dan Markel murder make first appearances
Tl;dr: many men find period blood disgusting, not killing blood;
Laws differ, I'm not from the US, but we've had cases here on WS that had the "most easy to convict" charges first, especially if these charges already carried a life sentence and the trial of these further charges would have been traumatizing to the family/jury/witness etc.

However, these were simply hypotheses, options, possible angles to think about. I do not wish to further argue about these hypothesis at the moment.

 

[Durhamncheese]

You are comparing apples and dandelion seeds. Someone who is capable of having sex with a bloody corpse is not going to have an issue with a tampon.
Regarding charges, any evidence of a rape has existed for 12 years. If it was going to be charged, it would have been charged. There is no new evidence coming from that since Faith has been buried for over a decade.

Google - "period sex" "men" Example: "A whole 45 percent of women have had a male partner turn down sex while they were on their period." Example: We surveyed over 500 people about period sex | The Fornix | Flex
Google - "additional charges" "added later" Example: Suspects facing additional charges in Dan Markel murder make first appearances
Tl;dr: many men find period blood disgusting, not killing blood;
Laws differ, I'm not from the US, but we've had cases here on WS that had the "most easy to convict" charges first, especially if these charges already carried a life sentence and the trial of these further charges would have been traumatizing to the family/jury/witness etc.

However, these were simply hypotheses, options, possible angles to think about. I do not wish to further argue about these hypothesis at the moment.

 

[Durhamncheese]

Police have said different things about this going back years. In different interviews, they've said she was sexually assaulted and "more than likely" raped (paraphrase). They've said very clearly that there was semen on her, and that it matched the DNA on the murder note (Time Out bag), the pen (used to write the note), and the rum bottle (presumably the murder weapon, though in some question now). The DNA was used to generate the Parabon image, which is a dead ringer for MESO. So, what can we glean from this?
1. MESO definitely killed her. Faith clearly had no strong connection to him (ie. he wasn't a friend/acquaintance of hers that anyone knew about), since investigators spent years talking to anyone who did, then broadened their scope to talk to hundreds more who had a degree or two of separation from her. Many of those people also voluntarily had their DNA taken. So the fact that his DNA is in the apartment, on items strongly associated with the crime, tells us something important. This is the single most important thing to know about this case.
2. As to the rape part, the language used regarding it ("more than likely") points to the exact sequence not being clear to the investigators, either. At a guess, she probably doesn't have trauma to her genital region consistent with violently resisting; the autopsy report some of us have seen doesn't mention that (but it doesn't actually say anything about that, so there maybe be a portion of it expunged). Did they have consensual sex and something went very wrong after? Did her intimidate her into sex and then kill her after? Did he hit her over the head, then rape her while she was unresponsive, and then only realize he'd mortal wounded her afterwards (my current theory)? We don't know. We can try to read the tea leaves, but the DA not adding the charge doesn't mean it definitely didn't happen..
3. As to KR, the family has been suspicious of her since very shortly after the murder. Notably, though, CHPD has said she's been cooperative in the investigation and have, on one occasion, out and out said she isn't a suspect. Personal opinion: Nothing she did that night isn't readily explainable as a drunk 20 year-old college girl going through boy drama and making bad decisions. With the facts we know, that makes far more sense than she's some master assassin that has eluded arrest for almost 12 years.
I'm as frustrated as anyone that nothing has happened, but unfortunately, there is precedent for it, right here in Chapel Hill. On February 10, 2015, Craig Hicks shot three people in an apartment complex. He turned himself in and confessed that night. He was indicted February 16th. His trial took place June 12th... 2019. This was a case of intense national interest, where the perp gave a confession, and it still took Durham (just like this case, it happened in Chapel Hill, but Durham county was the prosecuting authority) 4 years to bring the case to trial.
And incidentally, they only charged him with 3 counts of first-degree murder, they didn't load him up with a bunch of other charges either.

When did Faith die? Before or after the roommate left the apartment?

 

[Durhamncheese]

Police have said different things about this going back years. In different interviews, they've said she was sexually assaulted and "more than likely" raped (paraphrase). They've said very clearly that there was semen on her, and that it matched the DNA on the murder note (Time Out bag), the pen (used to write the note), and the rum bottle (presumably the murder weapon, though in some question now). The DNA was used to generate the Parabon image, which is a dead ringer for MESO. So, what can we glean from this?
1. MESO definitely killed her. Faith clearly had no strong connection to him (ie. he wasn't a friend/acquaintance of hers that anyone knew about), since investigators spent years talking to anyone who did, then broadened their scope to talk to hundreds more who had a degree or two of separation from her. Many of those people also voluntarily had their DNA taken. So the fact that his DNA is in the apartment, on items strongly associated with the crime, tells us something important. This is the single most important thing to know about this case.
2. As to the rape part, the language used regarding it ("more than likely") points to the exact sequence not being clear to the investigators, either. At a guess, she probably doesn't have trauma to her genital region consistent with violently resisting; the autopsy report some of us have seen doesn't mention that (but it doesn't actually say anything about that, so there maybe be a portion of it expunged). Did they have consensual sex and something went very wrong after? Did her intimidate her into sex and then kill her after? Did he hit her over the head, then rape her while she was unresponsive, and then only realize he'd mortal wounded her afterwards (my current theory)? We don't know. We can try to read the tea leaves, but the DA not adding the charge doesn't mean it definitely didn't happen..
3. As to KR, the family has been suspicious of her since very shortly after the murder. Notably, though, CHPD has said she's been cooperative in the investigation and have, on one occasion, out and out said she isn't a suspect. Personal opinion: Nothing she did that night isn't readily explainable as a drunk 20 year-old college girl going through boy drama and making bad decisions. With the facts we know, that makes far more sense than she's some master assassin that has eluded arrest for almost 12 years.
I'm as frustrated as anyone that nothing has happened, but unfortunately, there is precedent for it, right here in Chapel Hill. On February 10, 2015, Craig Hicks shot three people in an apartment complex. He turned himself in and confessed that night. He was indicted February 16th. His trial took place June 12th... 2019. This was a case of intense national interest, where the perp gave a confession, and it still took Durham (just like this case, it happened in Chapel Hill, but Durham county was the prosecuting authority) 4 years to bring the case to trial.
And incidentally, they only charged him with 3 counts of first-degree murder, they didn't load him up with a bunch of other charges either.

You are in serious error. Hicks took a plea. He didn't go to trial.

Man sentenced to three life terms without parole for killing three Muslims

Craig Hicks had claimed he was provoked by a dispute over parking spaces, but the victims' family and prosecutors say he was motivated by bigotry.

www.nbcnews.com

Another big difference with the Hicks case and this case which proves my point. According to the news, the DA still hasn't reviewed or turned over all the evidence in Faith's case, which they have had for a decade.
In Hicks case, his attorney was looking for ways to limit his time after getting the discovery. There was not a question of what the evidence was.

 

[Durhamncheese]

Here is an article from April of 2023, almost a year ago, making an effort to explain why it's taking so long to prosecute the case.

Here’s why it’s taking lawyers so long to prosecute the suspect in 2012 of UNC-Chapel Hill student Faith Hedgepeth

Attorneys are still waiting for digital forensic analysis and cell extractions in the 2012 murder case of University of North Carolina student Faith Hedgepeth.

www.wral.com

A cell phone extraction takes 1-2 hours to complete.

Mobile Device Examination

Mobile phones and tablets have the potential to carry a wealth of information and during investigations we are often asked what can be recovered from them. On many occasions the focus is on recovering deleted text messages. Copying data from a mobile device is commonly referred to as an...

www.forensicit.com.au

They would have had Faith's cell phone done by the next day in 2012. They would have gone through it diligently. Apparently MESO was not anywhere in Faith's phone.
They have had the suspect's phone for more than two years, and they would have run that phone done the same day.
Either the DA is using the excuse of "extraction is SO hard!" when it's not, or what they have found on the phones are not at all helpful to their case. Or both.

 

[CADwrest]

When did Faith die? Before or after the roommate left the apartment?

After, quite obviously.

You are in serious error. Hicks took a plea. He didn't go to trial.

Actually, I made a minor error. He pled guilty, obviating the need for a trial. However, since we're apparently being pedantic about it, he didn't actually "take a plea." 'Cold-hearted malice:' Craig Hicks to spend life in prison for murder of 3 Muslim students in 2015

"There was no plea offered to Craig Hicks today. There was no negotiation with him. His hate of Islam drove him to kill three innocent people. He gets no deals. He is now where he should be - relegated to a footnote in history," District Attorney Satana Deberry said.

The larger point about the slam dunk case taking 4 years, though? That remains. As with the additional one about him only being convicted of the murder charges.

 

[Durhamncheese]

After, quite obviously.

Actually, I made a minor error. He pled guilty, obviating the need for a trial. However, since we're apparently being pedantic about it, he didn't actually "take a plea." 'Cold-hearted malice:' Craig Hicks to spend life in prison for murder of 3 Muslim students in 2015

"There was no plea offered to Craig Hicks today. There was no negotiation with him. His hate of Islam drove him to kill three innocent people. He gets no deals. He is now where he should be - relegated to a footnote in history," District Attorney Satana Deberry said.

The larger point about the slam dunk case taking 4 years, though? That remains. As with the additional one about him only being convicted of the murder charges.

He did actually take a plea. To plead guilty is what take a plea means. The DA can say nothing was offered, and that's ok. But he took his plea to the judge. That's the definition.
As far as Faith dying after the roommate, quite obviously. I have a few more questions.
If that is the case, then what timeframe would you estimate it occurred?

 

[Skigirl]

As they say in calculus, show your work here.
Finish the following sentence.
A teenager who is having sex with a bloody corpse is going to be grossed out over a tampon because __________________________________________________.

That’s not how disgust and misogyny works. There is no “because”.

 

[Skigirl]

He did actually take a plea. To plead guilty is what take a plea means. The DA can say nothing was offered, and that's ok. But he took his plea to the judge. That's the definition.
As far as Faith dying after the roommate, quite obviously. I have a few more questions.
If that is the case, then what timeframe would you estimate it occurred?

Taking a plea deal does not always mean that the defendant admits guilt nor does it mean they necessarily plead guilty. Taking a plea to a judge is not a plea deal.

 

[Durhamncheese]

Taking a plea deal does not always mean that the defendant admits guilt nor does it mean they necessarily plead guilty. Taking a plea to a judge is not a plea deal.

By law, a person who pleads guilty has to admit guilt. A plea is ALWAYS taken to a judge. A plea deal is a situation where the DA agrees to cap the punishment if the accused pleads guilty. However, a plea deal is not always accepted by the judge. This was the case with Hunter Biden. The prosecutor and the defense had an agreement for a deal, but the judge looked at it and said this is unreasonable and rejected the deal. A plea is taken TO the judge, not necessarily received from the DA. This why, at the first appearance, before the defense attorney has even seen the evidence, the judge asks the defendant "What is your plea?"

 

[Durhamncheese]

That’s not how disgust and misogyny works. There is no “because”.

If he was grossed out by a tampon, but not grossed out by having sex with a bloody corpse, then why did he remove the tampon?

 

[Durhamncheese]

Taking a plea deal does not always mean that the defendant admits guilt nor does it mean they necessarily plead guilty. Taking a plea to a judge is not a plea deal.

Read this State of NC transcript of plea, especially 13, 14a, 23 and 25.

https://www.nccourts.gov/assets/documents/forms/cr300_0.pdf?OTu_kn3ypl3dZKJlelgGR.2at2EKvdYt

There are some minor exceptions with an Alford plea, but none of the situations we are talking involve an Alford plea.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

If he was grossed out by a tampon, but not grossed out by having sex with a bloody corpse, then why did he remove the tampon?

Do you know him personally? How can you possibly say what someone is or is not grossed out by?

 

[Durhamncheese]

Do you know him personally? How can you possibly say what someone is or is not grossed out by?

That's exactly my question to the original poster. If someone is ok with having sex with a bloody corpse, what leads you to think they are grossed out by a tampon? And then why would that person remove it, if it's something gross? It's contradictory.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

That's exactly my question to the original poster. If someone is ok with having sex with a bloody corpse, what leads you to think they are grossed out by a tampon? And then why would that person remove it, if it's something gross? It's contradictory.

Why is that contradictory? If I'm grossed out by muddy clothes that doesn't guarantee that I'm grossed out by ALL mud or dirt and water in general. I think that one thing can be true without the other being true. JMO.

 

[CADwrest]

Maybe he just planned to rape her after (semi-)killing her but simply did not do it because of the tampon and period? In many cultures,a period is seen as something "unclean" etc. Hell, even many western culture white guys refuse to have sex during a period, it's pretty common. Nothing to do with being "nice" and all to do with finding a normal bodily function disgusting. It is unlikely he would have known she was on her period prior to attacking her, so he might have just been surprised and taken aback at that. Could have either lost that part of the plan completely or just ermh dealt with himself without physically involving the victim any more.
Or just will get extra charges added later. Just because he's not charged with it now does not mean that he will not be later on.

That's exactly my question to the original poster. If someone is ok with having sex with a bloody corpse, what leads you to think they are grossed out by a tampon? And then why would that person remove it, if it's something gross? It's contradictory.

Actually, the whole discussion is a mischaracterization of what the original poster even suggested. He posited that MESO stopped in his rape attempt upon realizing she was on her period, as quoted above.

 

[Durhamncheese]

Why is the tampon removed?

Actually, the whole discussion is a mischaracterization of what the original poster even suggested. He posited that MESO stopped in his rape attempt upon realizing she was on her period, as quoted above.