NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sept 2012 #1

[J.M. Bee]

As for whether police have swabbed all of the males who might have been living in the complex at that time, I don't know the answer to this question, but I think it's at least conceivable that they missed someone. This could be someone whose name was not on a lease, someone who was staying in a family member or friend's place, someone who was staying with a family member or friend for a period of time. I think it's more conceivable that LE missed one of these males than that they missed one of The Thrill males, not to mention the former type is the more likely to enter an apartment uninvited at 4:30am than the latter is, IMO.

 

[J.M. Bee]

Gone Girl - LE has every one of her phone calls and text messages. Plus they have everything KR could tell them about Faith's male acquaintances. I don't see how a relevant male slips through the cracks.

 

[Webthrush]

There are a number of reasons to think the Thrill-guy-follows-them-home-and-stalks theory is implausible. One, they left Thrill around 2:15am. So this club-going guy follows them home in his car, waits outside for two hours watching and then decides to go in when (to his good fortune) KR leaves at 4:30am, leaving Faith alone and the door unlocked? No, that just isn't believable. Two, guys who go to clubs to pick up girls may be untrustworthy in any number of ways, but they are not the social type who enters apartments uninvited at 4:30am. That social type doesn't even go to clubs, has an inferiority or rejection complex, etc. The club-going type would just plan on seeing these girls / this girl another night. Alternately, if you have him knocking on the door and being let in by Faith, how did he know her apartment number? He followed them home & waited for two hours? No, not believable. She gave it to him at the club? No, also not believable. She would've given him her phone number, not her apartment number.

For anyone who believes in the Thrill-guy-follows-them-home theory, please present us with a plausible step-by-step account of how this guy gets from seeing Faith & KR at Thrill to murdering Faith with a rum bottle. I would like to see this laid out (step-by-step) in a bit more detail. IMO, it just isn't plausible.

This is really very simple: he/they doesn't need to literally follow them home -- he/they encounters them at the Thrill, gets Karena's name, but after a bit of socializing the girls find him/they creepy and rebuffs them (maybe Karena's "I have a headache" was nothing but a false excuse to head home and get away from the guy). A couple more hours pass, the guy(s) get increasingly drunk/high and upon leaving say to themselves 'let's go visit those girls who blew us off' -- they google Karena's name and quickly get the address and off they go -- looking for a good time, but once there one can imagine many scenarios that result in rage and murder (I don't believe this was a planned crime, but one of impulse). Yes, there are things this doesn't account for well, but that's true of ALL the scenarios folks are concocting. And I'll say again, I think police have accounted for all males within the girls' various circles -- what they haven't accounted for are all the males the girls may have encountered at the Thrill for 2 minutes. The other circle of males I still wonder about are all those surrounding ETJ, but I assume police have checked them out (and I don't think we're free to discuss them anyway).

 

[raiders444]

My recollection is that by the ~2-year mark police had tracked down and DNA-tested all males who worked with FH or lived at her complex at the time of the crime (as well as all who had close contact with her on campus or in her hometown) — still leaves many males outside those circles — and again I’d like to know how many males from the Thrill were tested versus how many males visited the Thrill during the girls’ ~90-min. stay there.
Anyway, this is why the police need to release some sort of official FAQ sheet on this crime, of what is definitely known, what is mere speculation, and what is unknown in this case — after 5 years, established police facts, versus news reports, versus sheer hearsay are beginning to blur for many of us.

Agree this case needs more info from the LE. I don't think anyone on here will dispute that. Has anyone else thought that the reward for info leading to an arrest seemed kind of low at $40,000? Maybe this is something that could be crowd sourced, via kickstarter or something. Give the money to faith's family for a scholarship if no one is arrested after a year. Maybe someone speaks up if the money gets to $100,000....just a thought

I also think this case needs a champion on the national stage- someone like a Nancy Grace to really put this in the public eye, but maybe it's too late for that?

 

[Boodles]

Agree this case needs more info from the LE. I don't think anyone on here will dispute that. Has anyone else thought that the reward for info leading to an arrest seemed kind of low at $40,000? Maybe this is something that could be crowd sourced, via kickstarter or something. Give the money to faith's family for a scholarship if no one is arrested after a year. Maybe someone speaks up if the money gets to $100,000....just a thought

I also think this case needs a champion on the national stage- someone like a Nancy Grace to really put this in the public eye, but maybe it's too late for that?

A 20/20 was done on this case, and that's pretty high profile. But I'd love to see a higher reward. Although if peeps aren't going to flip for $40k, the brother/sisterhood bond must be intense OR the fear factor trumps the money.

 

[raiders444]

Yeah, saw the 20/20. That was my first introduction to this case after local news did their 5 year anniversary quick little mention. I think something like 20/20 definitely brings something to the forefront, but unless it gets continual coverage like a Natalie Holloway type of thing, chances are people will forget about it and move on

 

[Simplestarz86]

Disclaimer: I am eight months pregnant and forgetful.
JMO and IIRC...ALL the males in the complex were not swabbed in the apartment complex. Source is a news article. A neighbor from the apartment complex states from the get go not all men were swabbed. LE were treating it as an open and shut case of DV early on...IIRC LE came back to the complex months later to get swabs at which time many people made moved out by then.
I am trying to find my news link to prove. I know I have attached it before in previous posts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"About a month after Faith’s death, Shia said Chapel Hill police returned to the apartment complex. They began asking men who lived in Faith’s building and the ones around it for DNA swabs. Shia estimates the number of samples requested at around 20, from men of varying ethnicities and ages. Shia said several families had moved out of the complex by that time. These DNA samples were taken voluntarily, without a nontestimonial identification order."

JMO...I find it hard to believe all men were found and swabbed that lived near the girls at the time. I'm sure people lived there without being on a lease just as Faith had been doing (IMO) as it was a temporary living arrangement of only a few weeks. IMO this article leaves lots of questions as to things not being thoroughly investigated. JMO.

https://synapse.atavist.com/sealings


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[youlostone]

As for whether police have swabbed all of the males who might have been living in the complex at that time, I don't know the answer to this question, but I think it's at least conceivable that they missed someone. This could be someone whose name was not on a lease, someone who was staying in a family member or friend's place, someone who was staying with a family member or friend for a period of time. I think it's more conceivable that LE missed one of these males than that they missed one of The Thrill males, not to mention the former type is the more likely to enter an apartment uninvited at 4:30am than the latter is, IMO.

I agree this is the most likely type of person as far as neighbors go. Someone who was just sleeping on somebody's couch type of arrangement.

 

[youlostone]

Agree this case needs more info from the LE. I don't think anyone on here will dispute that. Has anyone else thought that the reward for info leading to an arrest seemed kind of low at $40,000? Maybe this is something that could be crowd sourced, via kickstarter or something. Give the money to faith's family for a scholarship if no one is arrested after a year. Maybe someone speaks up if the money gets to $100,000....just a thought

I also think this case needs a champion on the national stage- someone like a Nancy Grace to really put this in the public eye, but maybe it's too late for that?

It was featured on the Nancy Grace website for awhile and Jane Velez Mitchell had covered it as well around the time it first happened. I think we were all hoping something like 20/20 would drum up the missing info that was needed.

 

[youlostone]

"About a month after Faith’s death, Shia said Chapel Hill police returned to the apartment complex. They began asking men who lived in Faith’s building and the ones around it for DNA swabs. Shia estimates the number of samples requested at around 20, from men of varying ethnicities and ages. Shia said several families had moved out of the complex by that time. These DNA samples were taken voluntarily, without a nontestimonial identification order."

JMO...I find it hard to believe all men were found and swabbed that lived near the girls at the time. I'm sure people lived there without being on a lease just as Faith had been doing (IMO) as it was a temporary living arrangement of only a few weeks. IMO this article leaves lots of questions as to things not being thoroughly investigated. JMO.

https://synapse.atavist.com/sealings


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sadly, it seems like LE really got tunnel vision and started focusing in on the wrong people too soon. Seems pretty ridiculous that a whole month had gone by before that started knocking on doors of ppl in the complex. They should have brought the SBI in from day one. It's great that they've been able to swab 700+ men and "work on leads everyday" but I truly believe this one is a little big bigger than CHPD can handle.

 

[Skigirl]

I'm curious why more people don't assume LE could not have swabbed everyone Faith knew or came in contact with. I can promise you if this had happened to me in college, LE would NEVER be able to say they contacted every man I knew. People keep secrets. Even now there are people I have contact with that no one close to me knows about. This could be the case here. I'm not talking about strangers. I'm talking person or people known to Faith and possibly her circle.

Yes, Agree -- it could have been someone she met at a bar or a club that wasn't that night or wasn't even at the thrill. It could be someone who came into Red Robin, maybe more than once but not enough times to be a recognized as a regular. Or maybe it was someone she knew from one of her classes, maybe not even a class she was enrolled in at the time. Someone she came into contact with in her sorority events, or maybe someone in an intramural activity in which she had involvement. Maybe a friend of one of the guys she saw at the Thrill that night. The possibilities are endless.

 

[J.M. Bee]

Yes, Agree -- it could have been someone she met at a bar or a club that wasn't that night or wasn't even at the thrill. It could be someone who came into Red Robin, maybe more than once but not enough times to be a recognized as a regular. Or maybe it was someone she knew from one of her classes, maybe not even a class she was enrolled in at the time. Someone she came into contact with in her sorority events, or maybe someone in an intramural activity in which she had involvement. Maybe a friend of one of the guys she saw at the Thrill that night. The possibilities are endless.

Right, so you two are talking about a male she had some contact with, but not significant contact with, a male who is nowhere found in her text messages, phone calls, emails or KR's accounts to police. OK, but in order to develop such an account, you need to address some of the following questions:

1. why is this male showing up uninvited to Faith & Karena's door at 4:30am? what exactly are his intentions?
2. how does this male gain entrance to the apartment? does he sneak in? does Faith let him in?
3. how does this male even know where Faith lives? and importantly, how does he know she's alone?
4. why is this male not found in any of Faith's texts, phone calls or emails, or in KR's accounts to police?

Unless this male is a stalker type who had been watching the girls' comings and goings for some time and fantasizing about them, I don't see how this male makes it through all of the questions above in a plausible manner.

 

[Webthrush]

Right, so you two are talking about a male she had some contact with, but not significant contact with, a male who is nowhere found in her text messages, phone calls, emails or KR's accounts to police. OK, but in order to develop such an account, you need to address some of the following questions:

1. why is this male showing up uninvited to Faith & Karena's door at 4:30am? what exactly are his intentions?
2. how does this male gain entrance to the apartment? does he sneak in? does Faith let him in?
3. how does this male even know where Faith lives? and importantly, how does he know she's alone?
4. why is this male not found in any of Faith's texts, phone calls or emails, or in KR's accounts to police?

Unless this male is a stalker type who had been watching the girls' comings and goings for some time and fantasizing about them, I don't see how this male makes it through all of the questions above in a plausible manner.

The police may have sound answers to most these questions, but all we can do is speculate:


1. maybe just a random robber checking doors at the complex ’til he finds one unlocked… or
a stalker of one of the girls... or someone known to them who’s looking for a drug deal or sex or money; there are really many possibilities.


2. We DO NOT know for sure if they were looking for Faith or Karena or either of the two specifically.
IF Faith let him in, though I presume she knew of him, at least casually, but IF she was asleep and the door was unlocked, obviously she need not let him in.


3. He doesn’t necessarily know she’s alone (and again, may not even have been looking for her specifically).


4. It’s someone unknown to Faith or known only at a distance.


Again, we’re REALLY in the dark, and making huge assumptions, because the police have released so little solid information in this case, though they’ve done extensive interviewing and no doubt already have answers to many things we're only guessing at.

 

[Skigirl]

The police may have sound answers to most these questions, but all we can do is speculate:


1. maybe just a random robber checking doors at the complex ’til he finds one unlocked… or
a stalker of one of the girls... or someone known to them who’s looking for a drug deal or sex or money; there are really many possibilities.


2. We DO NOT know for sure if they were looking for Faith or Karena or either of the two specifically.
IF Faith let him in, though I presume she knew of him, at least casually, but IF she was asleep and the door was unlocked, obviously she need not let him in.


3. He doesn’t necessarily know she’s alone (and again, may not even have been looking for her specifically).


4. It’s someone unknown to Faith or known only at a distance.


Again, we’re REALLY in the dark, and making huge assumptions, because the police have released so little solid information in this case, though they’ve done extensive interviewing and no doubt already have answers to many things we're only guessing at.

Agree, all we know is that it was someone who either didn't consent to have DNA tested and wasn't in enough contact with Faith and didn't do anything else suspicious enough for LE to get a search warrant for a swab, OR someone that LE didn't identify because they don't know the person exists or the person wasn't in close enough contact with her for them to regard him with suspicion. It could even be someone she texted or emailed or facebooked or called at some point. It just can't be someone who texted, "Hey babe, I'd like to come over tonight," or something else so obvious that LE would be able to get a warrant for a swab.

 

[J.M. Bee]

Agree, all we know is that it was someone who either didn't consent to have DNA tested and wasn't in enough contact with Faith and didn't do anything else suspicious enough for LE to get a search warrant for a swab, OR someone that LE didn't identify because they don't know the person exists or the person wasn't in close enough contact with her for them to regard him with suspicion. It could even be someone she texted or emailed or facebooked or called at some point. It just can't be someone who texted, "Hey babe, I'd like to come over tonight," or something else so obvious that LE would be able to get a warrant for a swab.

LE would have asked for a swab from any male who was in her text, call or email history. And they wouldn't need a warrant. They didn't get 110 warrants or whatever the number was. They just asked relevant males to do the swab. Any male who refused to do the swab would obviously become a POI.

Further, all of the questions I've asked above would need to be asked about the person you are thinking of here, as you (unlike Webthrush) are in fact thinking of a peripheral acquaintance.

 

[J.M. Bee]

None of what you've said there, Webthrush, deals with my point, which is that if we are talking about a male who had some contact with Faith but not significant enough contact to merit LE looking at him / swabbing him, then certain questions need to be asked about this male. You've offered any number of possibilities that have little or nothing to do with that scenario. Basically you've changed the scenario to "it could have been a random, a stranger," which is fine, except that that's a different scenario. With a different set of questions.

 

[Skigirl]

"There's definitely a pattern, a rhythm, of when I'm 'rape guy'"

Here's a recent 48 hours episode called "Hunted," in which a man picked out random women, stalked and watched them, and then waited for opportunities, like unlocked windows, to enter their apartments.

https://www.cbsnews.com/videos/hunted-2/

His rapes involved a women in a range of age groups (29-65 years), 20 miles apart.

He says that part of the thrill was that the victims were chosen totally random.

 

[Skigirl]

LE would have asked for a swab from any male who was in her text, call or email history. And they wouldn't need a warrant. They didn't get 110 warrants or whatever the number was. They just asked relevant males to do the swab. Any male who refused to do the swab would obviously become a POI.

Further, all of the questions I've asked above would need to be asked about the person you are thinking of here, as you (unlike Webthrush) are in fact thinking of a peripheral acquaintance.

As I said, LE can ask anyone for a DNA sample. But that does not mean that everyone who was asked complied. You can refuse to give a DNA sample if there is no warrant. There is no way a judge is going to grant a warrant just because you're in someone's call history, unless there is probable cause. Merely being someone she spoke with on the phone is not going to satisfy anyone that there is probable cause. There would have to be something more -- suspicious timing, many calls showing evidence that there was a relationship, etc.

We do not know who refused to give a sample. We do not know who LE consider POI.

Take a look at Lauren Spierer's case. She was with three men that night. None even so much as agreed to speak with LE, much less give DNA samples. There was not probable cause to get a warrant even though one of them claimed that he sent her out of his apartment at 4 AM alone, drunk/high, with no cell phone, keys, wallet or shoes, to walk alone back to her apartment -- never to be seen again.

 

[CADwrest]

As to the DNA/swabs:

Remember what "S" said, that LE had gotten one from everyone they wanted one from. That number was reported as 750. It was even said that, given that number, many of them never even knew Faith, their lives just intersected hers in some way.

Knowing that, I have a hard time believing that someone as close to Faith as being in her call history or email history would have escaped being swabbed. If they're swabbing some guy who lives on the other side of the complex from her, surely they also got the guy who just sent her a text a few months earlier.

 

[CADwrest]

Right, so you two are talking about a male she had some contact with, but not significant contact with, a male who is nowhere found in her text messages, phone calls, emails or KR's accounts to police. OK, but in order to develop such an account, you need to address some of the following questions:

1. why is this male showing up uninvited to Faith & Karena's door at 4:30am? what exactly are his intentions?
2. how does this male gain entrance to the apartment? does he sneak in? does Faith let him in?
3. how does this male even know where Faith lives? and importantly, how does he know she's alone?
4. why is this male not found in any of Faith's texts, phone calls or emails, or in KR's accounts to police?

Unless this male is a stalker type who had been watching the girls' comings and goings for some time and fantasizing about them, I don't see how this male makes it through all of the questions above in a plausible manner.

OK, I’ll take a shot at this.

Perhaps this guy has seen Faith around campus, thinks she’s hot, develops an infatuation. Maybe he talks to her once or twice, maybe not, but he’s not particularly memorable and she doesn’t think to mention him to anyone else after the fact. The conversation wouldn’t have to merit it- he might be just trying to start a conversation by asking her something like “Hey, do you know which way to the Dean Dome?” or some such, maybe thinking she’ll offer to show him. I know I don’t mention conversations like that to anybody afterwards, they’re a non-event.

Maybe then, he just happens to see her out that night at the club, but she’s got a bunch of guys around her already, so he still doesn’t think the moment’s right. But he’s been drinking and he can’t quite let it go. She leaves, he spends the next hour or so kicking himself, decides he’s going to go pay her a visit.

He doesn’t really need to know she’s alone. If Karena were there, the whole thing would play out very differently. Maybe they’d be polite for a few minutes, then gently shoo him out the door. But he happens to come upon her alone, it’s just what happens. Maybe he planned on knocking, maybe he’s working himself up to it, then tries the knob and the door gives? He’s never do this normally, but he’s drunk and the door’s open! It’s a sign!
He goes in, sees a couple bottles in the kitchen, grabs them thinking to keep the party going, goes into Faith’s room, but she wakes up and… well, apparently doesn’t scream, because no one hears that. But she’s freaked out and tells him to get out right now, what the hell?! Why are YOU in my room?! How do you even know where I live?! But since he’s been thinking about this moment forever, and it’s gone really wrong, he explodes and lashes out at her, and almost before he knows what he’s doing, she’s dead. A few more things happen that I’m not going to describe, and he leaves. No one sees him coming or going.

I think that’s plausible, though with so many different possibilities, it probably isn’t what happened. As far as how he knows where she lives? Infatuation can be powerful, and information isn’t always secure. It seems like everywhere you go, you’re filling out some form with your information on it. Most of the time, unless they’re really, REALLY security conscious, what you can discover about someone is only limited by your tenacity. In this case, I don’t think it’s as simple as googling her, since she hadn’t been there that long, but if he really wanted to, he could have found out where she lived.