NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sept 2012 #1

[CADwrest]

But is it a fact that LE has said the DNA of the semen, note, pen and bottle are the same? I'm not sure that's true. I believe they said the note & pen are the same DNA.

Do do you have a link by chance? TIA.

This one has Lt. Lehew talking about the DNA being on the bottle, specifically.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.news...y/durham-news/dn-opinion/article95292287.html

 

[Whiskers16]

This one has Lt. Lehew talking about the DNA being on the bottle, specifically.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.news...y/durham-news/dn-opinion/article95292287.html

she does mention DNA on the bottle but she doesn't specify whether it's DNA matching that found from the semen/note/pen. technically the bottle would have Faith's DNA and could have DNA of one or more suspects, which may or may not match the existing suspect profile.

 

[Webthrush]

But is it a fact that LE has said the DNA of the semen, note, pen and bottle are the same? I'm not sure that's true. I believe they said the note & pen are the same DNA.

Do do you have a link by chance? TIA.

I think the hour-long 20/20 broadcast (among other sources) reported that DNA from the pen, bag, bottle, and semen all match -- that's largely what gives the police such certainty that that is their killer. Maybe if someone is planning to view the broadcast again they can be on the lookout for it being brought up. I don't have time right now to look through all the written reports where it might be mentioned, but if I run across it in future will post it.

 

[Boodles]

I'm not sure if the DNA has been linked to the bottle. It is linked to the pen and the semen:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-rel...ntify-murdered-unc-students/story?id=42312443

Thanks for this! Just to share the pertinent parts, I'm clipping them here from your link.

1. "Rosario called 911. Police say Hedgepeth was bludgeoned to death by an empty bottle of rum that was found in the apartment. They believe it was more likely than not that she was raped.A DNA profile was generated from semen collected at the scene, and investigators believe that DNA belongs to Hedgepeth’s killer."

2. "The Chapel Hill Police Department released hundreds of pages of details and key evidence in the case, including a biscuit bag that was from the popular Chapel Hill restaurant Time-Out.
“On the bag was some writing that said, ‘I’m not stupid, b----, jealous,’” Lehew said. “Obviously big evidentiary value.”
The note was found on the bed, and the pen it was written with has DNA that matches the DNA found on Hedgepeth’s body."

********
It sounds like the semen found ON Faith and the pen which was used to write the note have the same DNA.

 

[Boodles]

she does mention DNA on the bottle but she doesn't specify whether it's DNA matching that found from the semen/note/pen. technically the bottle would have Faith's DNA and could have DNA of one or more suspects, which may or may not match the existing suspect profile.

And interestingly, the Q is whether the bottle was the murder weapon. Lt. L does not explicitly say yes, although it's a yes/no question.

Q: “Do you have the murder weapon?
Lehew: “We believe we have the murder weapon.”
Q: “A wine bottle or alcohol bottle?”
Lehew: “There was a bottle on scene that was processed ... and DNA located.”


I always find find the way things are stated, or not stated, is interesting. It drives me crazy how un-straightforward they have been in talking about this case. The ambiguous way they discuss potential rape, semen location "on Faith", etc. I wish I knew what they're not saying. Because they know the answers. But they're dodging giving straight answers.



Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/lo...dn-opinion/article95292287.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Whiskers16]

I think the hour-long 20/20 broadcast (among other sources) reported that DNA from the pen, bag, bottle, and semen all match -- that's largely what gives the police such certainty that that is their killer. Maybe if someone is planning to view the broadcast again they can be on the lookout for it being brought up. I don't have time right now to look through all the written reports where it might be mentioned, but if I run across it in future will post it.

lol.. funny you should mention it.. I was just watching it to answer this question.

From ABC 20/20 special which can be viewed here: http://abc.go.com/shows/2020/episode-guide/2016-09/23-092316-love-hope-and-faith

14:15 - "Semen is also discovered on Faith's body. investigators use it to generate a DNA profile. They're convinced that DNA belongs to the killer and that he may also have perpetrated a sexual assault."

24:30 - "The note is written in pen. Police say both the note and the pen have the killer's DNA on it."

I did not hear anything about DNA on the bottle.

 

[Whiskers16]

random ideas floating around my head:

could KR have arranged for someone to come "rough up" FH, maybe out of anger or feeling betrayed in some way? but it got out of hand and FH ended up dead. could explain KR leaving the apt, not locking door, being tight-lipped, and maybe some of the 911 call phrasing some find odd.

would anyone's theory change if we found out the murder took place later in the morning, ex. 9am?

 

[CADwrest]

I think the hour-long 20/20 broadcast (among other sources) reported that DNA from the pen, bag, bottle, and semen all match -- that's largely what gives the police such certainty that that is their killer. Maybe if someone is planning to view the broadcast again they can be on the lookout for it being brought up. I don't have time right now to look through all the written reports where it might be mentioned, but if I run across it in future will post it.

I just watched it again. It doesn't specifically say the bottle matches the pen, bag, and semen. It doesn't mention the bottle having DNA at all. I swear I remember seeing that somewhere, though.

ETA: Whiskers and Boodles got there first. What I get for not refreshing the page.

 

[Whiskers16]

I just watched it again. It doesn't specifically say the bottle matches the pen, bag, and semen. It doesn't mention the bottle having DNA at all. I swear I remember seeing that somewhere, though.

ETA: Whiskers and Boodles got there first. What I get for not refreshing the page.

after sitting thru all the ads on the video on ABC's website I decided I need to just watch it one final time and type up a transcript [emoji41]

 

[Webthrush]

And interestingly, the Q is whether the bottle was the murder weapon. Lt. L does not explicitly say yes, although it's a yes/no question.

Q: “Do you have the murder weapon?
Lehew: “We believe we have the murder weapon.”
Q: “A wine bottle or alcohol bottle?”
Lehew: “There was a bottle on scene that was processed ... and DNA located.”


I always find find the way things are stated, or not stated, is interesting. It drives me crazy how un-straightforward they have been in talking about this case. The ambiguous way they discuss potential rape, semen location "on Faith", etc. I wish I knew what they're not saying. Because they know the answers. But they're dodging giving straight answers.


Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/lo...dn-opinion/article95292287.html#storylink=cpy

At ~5:40 in this clip they name the bloodied rum bottle as the murder weapon:
[video=youtube;xDxCGcfOmEo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDxCGcfOmEo[/video]
(somewhere I think I've also read that the bottle shape matches some of the trauma to Faith's head -- FWIW I just realized it's a short-necked bottle -- I used to wonder why the bottle didn't break, given the beating that FH sustained, but makes more sense now knowing the assailant wasn't simply holding onto a long neck). Honestly though the police need to bring forth new info come early Sept.!

 

[youlostone]

At ~5:40 in this clip they name the bloodied rum bottle as the murder weapon:
[video=youtube;xDxCGcfOmEo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDxCGcfOmEo[/video]
(somewhere I think I've also read that the bottle shape matches some of the trauma to Faith's head -- FWIW I just realized it's a short-necked bottle -- I used to wonder why the bottle didn't break, given the beating that FH sustained, but makes more sense now knowing the assailant wasn't simply holding onto a long neck). Honestly though the police need to bring forth new info come early Sept.!

Thanks for this. Brings back so many memories. Still all so very surreal..

I know it's been mentioned before a few years back, but I'm wondering if this was just a crime of opportunity and maybe someone just came out of that wooded area behind the complex. I know I have heard rumors/jokes that some homeless people have been known to live in the wooded areas in Chapel Hill. Still wouldn't really explain the note or whatever but maybe said person is delusional/hallucinating. Anyway, just a thought.

 

[Skigirl]

Thanks for this. Brings back so many memories. Still all so very surreal..

I know it's been mentioned before a few years back, but I'm wondering if this was just a crime of opportunity and maybe someone just came out of that wooded area behind the complex. I know I have heard rumors/jokes that some homeless people have been known to live in the wooded areas in Chapel Hill. Still wouldn't really explain the note or whatever but maybe said person is delusional/hallucinating. Anyway, just a thought.

Whereas I don't think it was a homeless person because of the note, I would bet dollars to donuts that there are a bunch of homeless people encamped in the woods behind that apartment building. A good number hang out on the entrance/exit ramps to I-40, and her building was really close to that. Homeless folks seem to gravitate toward places that offer privacy but are not part of a park where hikers and joggers will come through -- like wooded right-of-ways in between residential/commercial areas and highways -- where no one else really has a reason to go and that just exist as buffer for the highway. There are a lot of possessions and random camps in the woods around 147 near downtown Durham, close to places where people ask for money on the entrance/exit ramps.

 

[chinacat67]

From the lab that analyzed the DNA:

“You can be very confident that this is not a white person. This is not a person of African descent. This is a person who is very strongly Native American and European mixed ancestry or Latino," said Ellen Greytak, director of Bioinformatics at Parabon NanoLabs.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-rel...ntify-murdered-unc-students/story?id=42312443

This is interesting from that article as well...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[youlostone]

Whereas I don't think it was a homeless person because of the note, I would bet dollars to donuts that there are a bunch of homeless people encamped in the woods behind that apartment building. A good number hang out on the entrance/exit ramps to I-40, and her building was really close to that. Homeless folks seem to gravitate toward places that offer privacy but are not part of a park where hikers and joggers will come through -- like wooded right-of-ways in between residential/commercial areas and highways -- where no one else really has a reason to go and that just exist as buffer for the highway. There are a lot of possessions and random camps in the woods around 147 near downtown Durham, close to places where people ask for money on the entrance/exit ramps.

Yeah I-40 is exactly what reminded me of that cause just yesterday I got off that exit. I live off another 40 exit and it's exactly the same as far as foot traffic and panhandling, it came to mind cause my apartment faces the woods just like in that ABC video.

 

[Webthrush]

Whereas I don't think it was a homeless person because of the note, I would bet dollars to donuts that there are a bunch of homeless people encamped in the woods behind that apartment building. A good number hang out on the entrance/exit ramps to I-40, and her building was really close to that. Homeless folks seem to gravitate toward places that offer privacy but are not part of a park where hikers and joggers will come through -- like wooded right-of-ways in between residential/commercial areas and highways -- where no one else really has a reason to go and that just exist as buffer for the highway. There are a lot of possessions and random camps in the woods around 147 near downtown Durham, close to places where people ask for money on the entrance/exit ramps.

Yeah there are several homeless encampments in that area of Durham (including near the Walmart that is up the road). But the ONLY scenario in which I see it being a homeless person is if someone from the Hawthorne woods saw KH leave at 4:30, and perhaps knowing those were 1-bedroom apts., figured the apt. was empty, and went to burglarize it. After lucking upon an unlocked door, encountered FH or surprised her in bed, and mayhem occurred. I don't imagine that's the case (and as you say, doesn't account for the note), but can't rule it out 100%.
What I do rule out is that this was a planned or premeditated murder (jmo) -- I still believe it was an assault/rape gone too far when FH resisted. If you're going to murder someone you take a knife/gun/rope/poison... along; you don't plan on there being a rum bottle sitting around.

 

[Skigirl]

(Sorry to put this here but my mailbox is always full so I can't send PMs, but Whiskers, I am planning to contribute to the google drive project but I have been tied up -- thanks so much for organizing)

 

[Skigirl]

Yeah there are several homeless encampments in that area of Durham (including near the Walmart that is up the road). But the ONLY scenario in which I see it being a homeless person is if someone from the Hawthorne woods saw KH leave at 4:30, and perhaps knowing those were 1-bedroom apts., figured the apt. was empty, and went to burglarize it. After lucking upon an unlocked door, encountered FH or surprised her in bed, and mayhem occurred. I don't imagine that's the case (and as you say, doesn't account for the note), but can't rule it out 100%.
What I do rule out is that this was a planned or premeditated murder (jmo) -- I still believe it was an assault/rape gone too far when FH resisted. If you're going to murder someone you take a knife/gun/rope/poison... along; you don't plan on there being a rum bottle sitting around.

Yup, I agree. It is super-unlikely to have been premeditated IMHO. The bottle would not be an optimal murder weapon, so I have to believe that at least the murder was impulsive, even if whomever went there was contemplating rape.

 

[CADwrest]

http://www.gaspowrites.com/2016/09/initial-observations-on-2020-karens.html?m=1

Ok, I finally found where someone explicitly says that the DNA from the rum bottle matched the semen. It's Tom Gasparoli. Interestingly, it was his interview with Lehew I cited in the other citation I posted, and as Whiskers16 pointed out, that's not what she actually said.
I'm not sure now whether he just left out some clarifying comment she made or whether he made the same inference I did, so I'm not sure if I trust this or not.

 

[Webthrush]

Yup, I agree. It is super-unlikely to have been premeditated IMHO. The bottle would not be an optimal murder weapon, so I have to believe that at least the murder was impulsive, even if whomever went there was contemplating rape.

Just to be clear, in my own imagined scenario NEiTHER murder or rape were planned -- rather, likely 2 guys from a Thrill encounter (probably drunk or high on drugs) went to the apt. anticipating a (consensual) 'good time.' But when they found FH alone and uncooperative events spun out of control.
As to the bottle, I think from the way Lehew mentions the DNA it's safe to assume they think it's the perp's -- there just wouldn't even be any reason to mention DNA if it were from KR or FH.

 

[Skigirl]

Just to be clear, in my own imagined scenario NEiTHER murder or rape were planned -- rather, likely 2 guys from a Thrill encounter (probably drunk or high on drugs) went to the apt. anticipating a (consensual) 'good time.' But when they found FH alone and uncooperative events spun out of control.
As to the bottle, I think from the way Lehew mentions the DNA it's safe to assume they think it's the perp's -- there just wouldn't even be any reason to mention DNA if it were from KR or FH.

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to leave the impression that I was stating anyone's views but my own.