NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sept 2012 #1

[Boodles]

So, here's a question: Does anyone foresee this case getting solved without finding this Hispanic male who left the DNA? It seems to me that, whether he ties in with any other named POI or not, he has to be found and his connection to Faith established. Even if one's personal theory of the case just has him as a pawn of one of the other POIs, I don't think they could possibly be charged with anything unless he's found and shown to be an associate of them in some way.

Anyone disagree?

Maybe I'm the only one here who thinks this phenotype is in some way a red herring. I question its validity and/or relevance to Faith’s murder. If I could explain why, I would. But I just don’t buy it.

 

[CADwrest]

Maybe I'm the only one here who thinks this phenotype is in some way a red herring. I question its validity and/or relevance to Faith’s murder. If I could explain why, I would. But I just don’t buy it.

I think the easiest way of quantifying what you are saying is a contamination error at the lab that ran the DNA. Still, though, he'd need to be "found". They'd need to look in the chain of custody of the sample and find the (presumably Hispanic male) tech who contaminated it.

ETA: A lot of things would have to go wrong though. He'd have to contaminate 4 separate samples (semen, bag, pen, bottle), LE would have to never bother to double check the results (I have to believe they thought of that once the DNA started clearing everyone), then LE would have to compound the error by allowing the phenotype image to run on a nationwide broadcast (I can't believe they'd release it if they weren't 100% sure it was legit).

Also, and maybe someone who knows more about DNA can correct this, but wouldn't even a contaminated sample show that there were two donors?

 

[Webthrush]

Maybe I'm the only one here who thinks this phenotype is in some way a red herring. I question its validity and/or relevance to Faith’s murder. If I could explain why, I would. But I just don’t buy it.

bbm
Not sure what you mean here... are you saying you doubt that the semen left is relevant to the crime, or only that the DNA interpretation of it is somehow flawed or incorrect?

...and on different note, another reason LE doesn’t like to release too much info is that it can greatly bias the public and, when they finally do bring charges, make it very difficult to convene an unbiased/uninformed jury for a fair trial. Still, a fine line between divulging too much or too little information, and in this instance I think it’s been way too little, way too late.

 

[Boodles]

I think the easiest way of quantifying what you are saying is a contamination error at the lab that ran the DNA. Still, though, he'd need to be "found". They'd need to look in the chain of custody of the sample and find the (presumably Hispanic male) tech who contaminated it.

ETA: A lot of things would have to go wrong though. He'd have to contaminate 4 separate samples (semen, bag, pen, bottle), LE would have to never bother to double check the results (I have to believe they thought of that once the DNA started clearing everyone), then LE would have to compound the error by allowing the phenotype image to run on a nationwide broadcast (I can't believe they'd release it if they weren't 100% sure it was legit).

Also, and maybe someone who knows more about DNA can correct this, but wouldn't even a contaminated sample show that there were two donors?

No, this isn’t what I’m trying to convey, and I actually hadn’t thought about contamination. But you’re right, contamination would be one way to explain it being an invalid indicator.

 

[Simplestarz86]

I have recently started to really wonder about the bloody tampon...I wonder if it was examined...sorry to be so gross...was it pulled out? If so, who's DNA is on it? Also if it was forced out I would think there would be some type of DNA on it. I feel like the bloody tampon is just as important to try to collect forensic evidence from as the other items in the apartment. JMO and my random thoughts.


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[Boodles]

bbm
Not sure what you mean here... are you saying you doubt that the semen left is relevant to the crime, or only that the DNA interpretation of it is somehow flawed or incorrect?

...and on different note, another reason LE doesn’t like to release too much info is that it can greatly bias the public and, when they finally do bring charges, make it very difficult to convene an unbiased/uninformed jury for a fair trial. Still, a fine line between divulging too much or too little information, and in this instance I think it’s been way too little, way too late.

bbm: Yes, and/or yes, and probably other variables could be the case as well. I just don’t know how it’s not “the key” - I just think something isn’t valid as it relates to indicating the murderer.

Simply, I don’t think this dna phenotype is that of the murderer. Whether it’s contamination, the phenotyping process, the relevance to the crime, or some other factor, I don’t think it points to the killer.

I could definitely be wrong. I’ve followed this case since day 1. That doesn’t mean I know any more than anyone else. But in my true crime experience, the dna and the phenotype derived from it seem .....I cannot think of the correct word to explain my feeling! Something about LE saying the dna is that of the killer seems wrong. I’m not one to assume LE gets tunnel vision; I give them, usually, the benefit of the doubt that they’re smart and know a thing or two about solving crimes. But something seems very wrong. The entire interview with the woman detective on Dateline or 20/20 seems....off, again, I can’t explain or find the right word.

I don’t think it’s a coverup or intentional suppression of something. I think LE is misinterpreting or misunderstanding something which is very fundamental. Like they’re relying too much on something which is n/a and following an incorrect path.

And with what I said above, I totally contradict my other statements that I believe LE knows who did what but just doesn’t have enough evidence to get a conviction.

Maybe they’re passive-aggressively misleading the public with this DNA and phenotype stuff. Maybe it’s being planted to trick persons of interest into thinking they’re looking away from them. But then that sounds like I’m wearing a tinfoil hat!

 

[Simplestarz86]

bbm: Yes, and/or yes, and probably other variables could be the case as well. I just don’t know how it’s not “the key” - I just think something isn’t valid as it relates to indicating the murderer.

Simply, I don’t think this dna phenotype is that of the murderer. Whether it’s contamination, the phenotyping process, the relevance to the crime, or some other factor, I don’t think it points to the killer.

I could definitely be wrong. I’ve followed this case since day 1. That doesn’t mean I know any more than anyone else. But in my true crime experience, the dna and the phenotype derived from it seem .....I cannot think of the correct word to explain my feeling! Something about LE saying the dna is that of the killer seems wrong. I’m not one to assume LE gets tunnel vision; I give them, usually, the benefit of the doubt that they’re smart and know a thing or two about solving crimes. But something seems very wrong. The entire interview with the woman detective on Dateline or 20/20 seems....off, again, I can’t explain or find the right word.

I don’t think it’s a coverup or intentional suppression of something. I think LE is misinterpreting or misunderstanding something which is very fundamental. Like they’re relying too much on something which is n/a and following an incorrect path.

And with what I said above, I totally contradict my other statements that I believe LE knows who did what but just doesn’t have enough evidence to get a conviction.

Maybe they’re passive-aggressively misleading the public with this DNA and phenotype stuff. Maybe it’s being planted to trick persons of interest into thinking they’re looking away from them. But then that sounds like I’m wearing a tinfoil hat!

I am here in my tinfoil hat!


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[youlostone]

Gaspo said in his July podcast that there was a media outlet preparing a major story about the case; it's been a while since I listened to it but I think he said it "would attract a younger crowd" or something like that.

I hope that's still coming and he wasn't just talking about one of the little print stories we've seen in the last month.

I was thinking more along the podcast route, but it's been a minute and nothing like that has come out to date.

 

[raiders444]

OK, my contribution for today was going to the complex and looking into ETJ's sightlines. This is going to complicate some theories.
Above, I've got the overview of the two buildings highlighted in white. ETJ's is the one to the north, FH and KR's to the south. The red dot is FH and KR's door, green is ETJ's parking lot, and yellow is his door and deck.
I'll attach pictures in a following post, but Faith's building can only be seen AT ALL from the blue dot's location. From his parking lot, it is obscured by trees. ETJ's apartment, 904, was on the back side of his building, so not only could he not see their apartment, he couldn't even see the road going to it. The only place near his building where their building could be seen is at that curb (blue dot), and it would be weird and awkward for someone to just be standing there.

Perhaps we dismissed this what-if scenario prematurely a few weeks ago. I've started from Page 1 and am slowly working my way through all of the VERY interesting theories and posts since then. If you all time travel with me back to page 8, you'll find this little tidbit by "ChinaCat67" regarding the released search warrants:

"It also does clarify that Ex KNEW KR was going over to some other guys place at 430 because she called somebody for a ride who was somehow associated with Ex apt ... Or at least was at 415 that morning."

Now, my first question for ChinaCat67 (if you still follow this thread) or maybe Skigirl- has the cell ping of JB in the locality of Hawthorne at the View around 4 am ever been disproved or further investigated? (might take me some time to go through 70 pages of posts to find this answer). If this is still in play, we can link ETJ to JB- assuming they were hanging out that night- and therefore ETJ wouldn't have needed to be creeping on KR's comings and goings- meaning his lack of a sight line no longer matters- he would know from hanging with JB that KR wanted to booty call and would have left FH alone in the apt. ETJ could have waited a few minutes for JB to leave his place and KR to get picked up (maybe they were all in the same car?) and ETJ could have just walked over to their apartment and let himself in, possibly with another male who did the rape.

Do I have something here or is this a cold trail? This could also work in the note to the scene of the crime- if KR didn't realize JB was hanging out at ETJ's place, kind of like a "Busted! I know your comings and goings even if we're not together" sort of possessiveness, aka "I'm not stupid b*tch".

 

[raiders444]

One other thought I recently had- are any of the posters on this thread in any way casually friendly with some of the key people of this case(BE, JM, KR). If so, have they ever had conversations about this case and what were those person's theories/thoughts on what happened?

 

[Whiskers16]

One other thought I recently had- are any of the posters on this thread in any way casually friendly with some of the key people of this case(BE, JM, KR). If so, have they ever had conversations about this case and what were those person's theories/thoughts on what happened?

I believe it would be against TOS for anyone to post info of this sort unless they became a verified insider.

 

[Webthrush]

Perhaps we dismissed this what-if scenario prematurely a few weeks ago. I've started from Page 1 and am slowly working my way through all of the VERY interesting theories and posts since then. If you all time travel with me back to page 8, you'll find this little tidbit by "ChinaCat67" regarding the released search warrants:

"It also does clarify that Ex KNEW KR was going over to some other guys place at 430 because she called somebody for a ride who was somehow associated with Ex apt ... Or at least was at 415 that morning."

Now, my first question for ChinaCat67 (if you still follow this thread) or maybe Skigirl- has the cell ping of JB in the locality of Hawthorne at the View around 4 am ever been disproved or further investigated? (might take me some time to go through 70 pages of posts to find this answer). If this is still in play, we can link ETJ to JB- assuming they were hanging out that night- and therefore ETJ wouldn't have needed to be creeping on KR's comings and goings- meaning his lack of a sight line no longer matters- he would know from hanging with JB that KR wanted to booty call and would have left FH alone in the apt. ETJ could have waited a few minutes for JB to leave his place and KR to get picked up (maybe they were all in the same car?) and ETJ could have just walked over to their apartment and let himself in, possibly with another male who did the rape.

Do I have something here or is this a cold trail? This could also work in the note to the scene of the crime- if KR didn't realize JB was hanging out at ETJ's place, kind of like a "Busted! I know your comings and goings even if we're not together" sort of possessiveness, aka "I'm not stupid b*tch".

1) I agree ETJ remains a suspicious POI — it’s too bad we don’t know how he answered police questions, especially about his bizarre statements on social media. Would also be interesting to know Beatley’s answers to police questions about his whereabouts/movements for the night. But, sighhhh, we don’t know whatever LE knows.

2) I ’ve never taken ETJ’s line-of-sight from his apt. too seriously since all he had to do was walk outside his building some yards to get to a good line of sight, or just sit and park his car nearer to KR’s building. Also, we know his cousin was at the Thrill that night — might’ve notified him when KR & FH arrived and/or left.

3) And finally, ETJ was active in the music industry and could have had shady (and/or Latino) acquaintances there unknown to FH. Just sayin’…
There are a few other tidbits about individuals connected to ETJ but not sure we’re even free to discuss such things, so I’ll stop here.

 

[Simplestarz86]

Perhaps we dismissed this what-if scenario prematurely a few weeks ago. I've started from Page 1 and am slowly working my way through all of the VERY interesting theories and posts since then. If you all time travel with me back to page 8, you'll find this little tidbit by "ChinaCat67" regarding the released search warrants:

"It also does clarify that Ex KNEW KR was going over to some other guys place at 430 because she called somebody for a ride who was somehow associated with Ex apt ... Or at least was at 415 that morning."

Now, my first question for ChinaCat67 (if you still follow this thread) or maybe Skigirl- has the cell ping of JB in the locality of Hawthorne at the View around 4 am ever been disproved or further investigated? (might take me some time to go through 70 pages of posts to find this answer). If this is still in play, we can link ETJ to JB- assuming they were hanging out that night- and therefore ETJ wouldn't have needed to be creeping on KR's comings and goings- meaning his lack of a sight line no longer matters- he would know from hanging with JB that KR wanted to booty call and would have left FH alone in the apt. ETJ could have waited a few minutes for JB to leave his place and KR to get picked up (maybe they were all in the same car?) and ETJ could have just walked over to their apartment and let himself in, possibly with another male who did the rape.

Do I have something here or is this a cold trail? This could also work in the note to the scene of the crime- if KR didn't realize JB was hanging out at ETJ's place, kind of like a "Busted! I know your comings and goings even if we're not together" sort of possessiveness, aka "I'm not stupid b*tch".

I went to page 8 and cannot find this quote from Chinacat...I am assuming the Ex you are referring to was ETJ-correct? I believe JB's phone pinged around 4:15AM IIRC near the girl's apartment.JB was roommates with JM (man who picked KR up at 4:27AM) IIRC there has been no relationship made public that occurred between KR and JB.

ETA: trying to clear up some details.


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[Whiskers16]

I went to page 8 and cannot find this quote from Chinacat...I believe JB (phone pinged around 4:15AM IIRC) wasn't close to ETJ. He was roommates with JM (man who picked KR up at 4:27AM) Not trying to be coy but I don't think JB was hanging out with ETJ that evening but with his roommates.


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Post #120. Each user can set the number of posts per page and I think the options range from 10 posts to 100 posts. So references to page numbers don't work unless both users' settings are the same.

 

[Simplestarz86]

Perhaps we dismissed this what-if scenario prematurely a few weeks ago. I've started from Page 1 and am slowly working my way through all of the VERY interesting theories and posts since then. If you all time travel with me back to page 8, you'll find this little tidbit by "ChinaCat67" regarding the released search warrants:

"It also does clarify that Ex KNEW KR was going over to some other guys place at 430 because she called somebody for a ride who was somehow associated with Ex apt ... Or at least was at 415 that morning."

Now, my first question for ChinaCat67 (if you still follow this thread) or maybe Skigirl- has the cell ping of JB in the locality of Hawthorne at the View around 4 am ever been disproved or further investigated? (might take me some time to go through 70 pages of posts to find this answer). If this is still in play, we can link ETJ to JB- assuming they were hanging out that night- and therefore ETJ wouldn't have needed to be creeping on KR's comings and goings- meaning his lack of a sight line no longer matters- he would know from hanging with JB that KR wanted to booty call and would have left FH alone in the apt. ETJ could have waited a few minutes for JB to leave his place and KR to get picked up (maybe they were all in the same car?) and ETJ could have just walked over to their apartment and let himself in, possibly with another male who did the rape.

Do I have something here or is this a cold trail? This could also work in the note to the scene of the crime- if KR didn't realize JB was hanging out at ETJ's place, kind of like a "Busted! I know your comings and goings even if we're not together" sort of possessiveness, aka "I'm not stupid b*tch".

I am still confused...being 9 months pregnant with pregnancy brain probably doesn't help...I have the search warrants and cannot find anything that states "ex"-ETJ- knew KR was leaving...


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[raiders444]

Sorry all- did not realize we all could change settings to view a different amount of posts per page so my page 8 reference was obviously confusing. Thanks to Whiskers16 for clearing up that I was referring to post #120!

I believe ChinaCat was connecting the dots that JB's cell pinged from ETJ's apartment. Might be a stretch but that's why I posted the idea that JB + ETJ could have been hanging out that night. Not sure if they were ever known to be friends though. Admittedly a lot of this is grasping at straws

 

[Webthrush]

Sorry all- did not realize we all could change settings to view a different amount of posts per page so my page 8 reference was obviously confusing. Thanks to Whiskers16 for clearing up that I was referring to post #120!

I believe ChinaCat was connecting the dots that JB's cell pinged from ETJ's apartment. Might be a stretch but that's why I posted the idea that JB + ETJ could have been hanging out that night. Not sure if they were ever known to be friends though. Admittedly a lot of this is grasping at straws

I'm pretty sure that JB and ETJ were not Facebook friends as best I recall, and doubt they hung out together. And I don't believe cell phones ping at specific apts. but only at cell towers in the area -- I assume, but don't know, that police established where JB was that night when his phone pinged in the general area of the apt. complex (and someone here speculated that perhaps JM, JB's roommate, had JB's phone in the car when he went to pick up Karena).

 

[Skigirl]

I think the easiest way of quantifying what you are saying is a contamination error at the lab that ran the DNA. Still, though, he'd need to be "found". They'd need to look in the chain of custody of the sample and find the (presumably Hispanic male) tech who contaminated it.

ETA: A lot of things would have to go wrong though. He'd have to contaminate 4 separate samples (semen, bag, pen, bottle), LE would have to never bother to double check the results (I have to believe they thought of that once the DNA started clearing everyone), then LE would have to compound the error by allowing the phenotype image to run on a nationwide broadcast (I can't believe they'd release it if they weren't 100% sure it was legit).

Also, and maybe someone who knows more about DNA can correct this, but wouldn't even a contaminated sample show that there were two donors?

Not necessarily, unfortunately. With a tech usually you would know that person's DNA already and be able to detect it if it shows up in a negative control, but an unknown party -- I think it really depends.

 

[Webthrush]

A new video up at YouTube (~21 mins.) summarizing the Hedgepeth case:
[video=youtube;w8ArUntqmJY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8ArUntqmJY[/video]

 

[CADwrest]

Perhaps we dismissed this what-if scenario prematurely a few weeks ago. I've started from Page 1 and am slowly working my way through all of the VERY interesting theories and posts since then. If you all time travel with me back to page 8, you'll find this little tidbit by "ChinaCat67" regarding the released search warrants:

Just briefly, that wasn't intended to exonerate ETJ. I was just trying to add to the thread, because even after 5 years, there still wasn't a clear understanding of where the two apartments were in relation to each other. The one ETJ theory it really debunked was him just happening to see Faith and Karena driving back and forth and becoming enraged enough by it to commit the murder (there were other problems with that theory anyway).