NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

[Thepoet]

Fourth Circuit Court ruled AGAINST MacDonald! It's over!


http://jeffreymacdonalddiscussion.board ... /index.php

 

[AGettler]

hurray

 

[grillzgirl]

Good riddance

 

[Thepoet]

Sorry. I meant to link the court order in earlier post. Sorry! Don't know what happened?

http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/157136.P.pdf

The 4th Circuit pretty much slaps MacDonald down!

 

[mickey2942]

Interesting reading. I always thought that Helena Stokely was just a confused druggie, who was fed much of the crime scene information from investigators. There was never actual evidence of her involvement in the crime.

The overkill of Collette, Kimberly, and Kristen compared with the negligible injuries to JM, convinced me.

 

[mickey2942]

I just reviewed the history of Jeffrey McDonald, and what is really interesting is that he would have been eligible for parole in 1991, except for his dogged insistence that he is not guilty. His own narcissism has kept him incarcerated for almost three additional decades. I think at this time, he actually believes his own fiction.

 

[AGettler]

I just reviewed the history of Jeffrey McDonald, and what is really interesting is that he would have been eligible for parole in 1991, except for his dogged insistence that he is not guilty. His own narcissism has kept him incarcerated for almost three additional decades. I think at this time, he actually believes his own fiction.

He has believed his fiction for decades now. For in-depth analysis, read Fatal Vision. Interestingly, this book was rebutted and then this rebuttal was rebutted, but I don't recall the titles.

 

[mickey2942]

He has believed his fiction for decades now. For in-depth analysis, read Fatal Vision. Interestingly, this book was rebutted and then this rebuttal was rebutted, but I don't recall the titles.

I did read "Fatal Vision". It is amazing how long he was free. And scary. I can't believe that someone married him!

 

[AGettler]

I did read "Fatal Vision". It is amazing how long he was free. And scary. I can't believe that someone married him!

IIRC, there were several red flags before they got married, so, yeah, how did someone end up marrying him? I am hoping for a deathbed confession....

 

[Trvl4Lyfe]

I just reviewed the history of Jeffrey McDonald, and what is really interesting is that he would have been eligible for parole in 1991, except for his dogged insistence that he is not guilty. His own narcissism has kept him incarcerated for almost three additional decades. I think at this time, he actually believes his own fiction.

Unbelievable. Sounds like he really backed himself into a corner with his version of what happened.

 

[Thepoet]

He has believed his fiction for decades now. For in-depth analysis, read Fatal Vision. Interestingly, this book was rebutted and then this rebuttal was rebutted, but I don't recall the titles.

A Wilderness of Error and Fatal Justice

Both books were rife with errors, mistakes, and unsupported supposition. Both books have been soundly refuted. Both books ignored the mountain of evidence proving MacDonald guilty and the total implausibility of MacDonald's version. Fatal Vision has been criticized, mostly McGuiness's
ethics of posing as a supporter of MacDonald, but the book has never been proven to be incorrect in any way.

 

[Thepoet]

Domestic violence was viewed differently in 1970, especially by the military. If he had called for help and claimed a fight that had gotten out of control, with Kimberly (the older daughter) being accidently injured as she ran into the room, things would have been different. Probably minimum prison time, if any , and maybe even the chance to still be a doctor. But, the man is a narcissist and a monster, smarter than everyone and self-image was important. So, he butchered them all and made up his unbelievable story, and he's been in prison now for about 36 years.

 

[Boodles]

IIRC, there were several red flags before they got married, so, yeah, how did someone end up marrying him? I am hoping for a deathbed confession....

That will never happen (deathbed confession). Pride, ego, narcissism, etc. will prevent that. He’s such a hateful person.

 

[JerseyGirl]

'Fatal Vision' Doctor Again Denied New Trial in '70s Slayings

 

[AGettler]

That will never happen (deathbed confession). Pride, ego, narcissism, etc. will prevent that. He’s such a hateful person.

I think you are correct, he is not the type to confess. So, I say we get him drunk and then try to get the truth out of him.

 

[mickey2942]

A Wilderness of Error and Fatal Justice

Both books were rife with errors, mistakes, and unsupported supposition. Both books have been soundly refuted. Both books ignored the mountain of evidence proving MacDonald guilty and the total implausibility of MacDonald's version. Fatal Vision has been criticized, mostly McGuiness's
ethics of posing as a supporter of MacDonald, but the book has never been proven to be incorrect in any way.

When I read the Mcginnis book, I truly believe that he started out with the premise that McDonald was not guilty. But, as he continued with the research, the trial, he became more convinced about McDonald being guilty.

I will say this much, if McDonald is not guilty, that is the most jacked up case ever. I believe that he is, if for no other reason than a bunch of addicts who are crazed killers, wouldn't stop at one family killing.

 

[Thepoet]

When I read the Mcginnis book, I truly believe that he started out with the premise that McDonald was not guilty. But, as he continued with the research, the trial, he became more convinced about McDonald being guilty.

I will say this much, if McDonald is not guilty, that is the most jacked up case ever. I believe that he is, if for no other reason than a bunch of addicts who are crazed killers, wouldn't stop at one family killing.

Totally agree! When questioned by LE, Helena Stoeckly said the murders were likely done by someone on amphetamines, not LSD. She would know. (MacDonald was probably taking amphetamines) An expert said that "people high on LSD wouldn't be able to organize a trip to the bathroom, much less a murder!"

MacDonald is guilty. The evidence says so and the prosecution only used about 60% of their evidence! To me the two most important pieces of evidence were; the hair wrapped around a splinter of the wood post (murder weapon), and grasped by Collette. MacDonald and the defense claimed it belonged to the murderer and could prove the identity of the killer. Over a decade later DNA proved the hair belonged to MacDonald! The second piece of evidence is MacDonald's bloody (Collette's blood) foot print LEAVING Kristin's room. The foot print shows he was carrying something heavy! (Collette!) The heartless Monster murdered all of them!

 

[Thepoet]

I think you are correct, he is not the type to confess. So, I say we get him drunk and then try to get the truth out of him.

ROFLOL! Choked on my coffee!

 

[Satch]

ROFLOL! Choked on my coffee!

Totally agree! When questioned by LE, Helena Stoeckly said the murders were likely done by someone on amphetamines, not LSD. She would know. (MacDonald was probably taking amphetamines) An expert said that "people high on LSD wouldn't be able to organize a trip to the bathroom, much less a murder!"

MacDonald is guilty. The evidence says so and the prosecution only used about 60% of their evidence! To me the two most important pieces of evidence were; the hair wrapped around a splinter of the wood post (murder weapon), and grasped by Collette. MacDonald and the defense claimed it belonged to the murderer and could prove the identity of the killer. Over a decade later DNA proved the hair belonged to MacDonald! The second piece of evidence is MacDonald's bloody (Collette's blood) foot print LEAVING Kristin's room. The foot print shows he was carrying something heavy! (Collette!) The heartless Monster murdered all of them!

The living room is too neat to make his story belivable. There's not enough space between the couch and the coffee table for four people to barely stand, let alone fight. The darkness of the room, no one could see, or barely see what was happening.

Over the years, McDonald has changed his story over where Greg Mitchell was during the attack. I think in the early years, he's in the bedroom attacking Collette, but than in later years, he's at the couch attacking him! I could have this reversed though.

And the "Hippies" would have to be very familar with the house. Yea, they are going to be stupid enough to break into a Green Beret's house with his pregnent wife and two little girls and challenge him to a fight? Helena may have been on drugs with her friends, but they were not that stupid! And if McDonald's story were true, those intruders would be so badly injuried, perhaps even killed no matter where the supposed attacks took place. Yet, they are able to leave without injury, and leave the man who could easily identify them alive.

McDonald used the dish gloves under the kitchen sink, found in the bedding of one of the girls I think so as not to leave fingerprints.

I often wondered? Did Stokley and Mitchell live together? How far was/were their houses from the McDonald's residence? I understand that the blond woman in the floppy hat seen by Lt. Mica was never identified.

Satch

 

[mickey2942]

Good point on the drugs. Completely agree.