NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

[Peggy Maxwell]

Very true! As for the DNA testing on the blood found, I don't know the answer to that. However, I'd be willing to bet they'd find no one else was there.

I don't believe Mac's BS either.

They didn't DNA test the blood, there was none left to test, iirc. The hair that matched Mac's was, indeed, clutched in Colette's hand. His camp has changed their story since the results came back to it being on her hand. There is alot of info on a site called the Jeffrey MacDonald Information site. I think it links to a forum where there are many posters who are very well informed on the case. I read that even Fatal Justice (the pro-Mac book) states the hair was in Collette's hand.
IMO

 

[Jules]

They didn't DNA test the blood, there was none left to test, iirc. The hair that matched Mac's was, indeed, clutched in Colette's hand. His camp has changed their story since the results came back to it being on her hand. There is alot of info on a site called the Jeffrey MacDonald Information site. I think it links to a forum where there are many posters who are very well informed on the case. I read that even Fatal Justice (the pro-Mac book) states the hair was in Collette's hand.
IMO

Yep, you are correct. I remember reading that too.

 

[Peggy Maxwell]

Yep, you are correct. I remember reading that too.

Thanks-I don't want to be posting inaccurately. I just read that Bob Stevenson was not given the time promised to him on LKL the other night. Also, Joe McGuiness was a scheduled guest who was dumped by the show before it aired. I've seen crime scene photos and autopsy photos from this heinous crime-as well as photos of Mac's injuries. I can never believe the intruder story, imo the photos tell a story of their own.

 

[William N]

There is one factor that has always struck me. MacDonald had been a high school football player, and was at the time a Green Beret. Yet a bump on the head and one knife wound had incapacitated him while his wife and children were being butchered. Why didn't this fit and strong man fight to the death against the kind of intruders MacDonald claims to have invaded his apartment? The obvious answer is a crime scene staged by MacDonald himself.

 

[Peggy Maxwell]

There is one factor that has always struck me. MacDonald had been a high school football player, and was at the time a Green Beret. Yet a bump on the head and one knife wound had incapacitated him while his wife and children were being butchered. Why didn't this fit and strong man fight to the death against the kind of intruders MacDonald claims to have invaded his apartment? The obvious answer is a crime scene staged by MacDonald himself.

I agree with you William. Collette's body spoke to her putting up one heck of a fight. His story didn't, and still doesn't, ring true.

 

[Wudge]

As in Dr. Sam Sheppard's case, reasonable doubt also existed in this case from the word "go". Hence, Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald should have been found to be "not guilty".

Though, if I could have, I would have tossed the prosecutor into prison for withholding exculpatory evidence.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Usually a lurker- but have become interested in this case even though it is so old, but still in the news.
I agree about The Crime Library- it seems to be very biased in this case.

But, a question or a thought about the hypnosis McDonald had. What do you think- if you commited the murders would you be able to make yourself believe something else for the sake of being under hypnosis? Or do you think he fooled the examiner.

Blondieskatz

You just described sociopathic tendencies--such as the ability to talk themselves into believing their own crap. And I find hypnosis to be highly unreliable--especially when the subject is a manipulative personality with a background in medicine.

 

[blueclouds]

Thanks-I don't want to be posting inaccurately. I just read that Bob Stevenson was not given the time promised to him on LKL the other night. Also, Joe McGuiness was a scheduled guest who was dumped by the show before it aired. I've seen crime scene photos and autopsy photos from this heinous crime-as well as photos of Mac's injuries. I can never believe the intruder story, imo the photos tell a story of their own.

Bob was clearly trying to "take over the show". LKL does not have time for "speeches". I found him very obnoxious.

Where did you hear that Joe was dumped from the show? I find that also highly unlikely as LK does like a wide group representing both sides.

Having said all this, I find Mac's bull to be Crap. I don't believe he's innocent.

 

[Peggy Maxwell]

Bob was clearly trying to "take over the show". LKL does not have time for "speeches". I found him very obnoxious.

Where did you hear that Joe was dumped from the show? I find that also highly unlikely as LK does like a wide group representing both sides.

Having said all this, I find Mac's bull to be Crap. I don't believe he's innocent.

Here's the link to where I got that info about Joe:
http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/lkl_2006-03-16.html

Take it fwiw.
IMO:
As far as Bob goes, I can only imagine how I would feel in his shoes. It seemed like 90% "poor Mac" and 10% of the other side. Kathryn went on & on-why not let Bob say what he wanted to say?

 

[Blondieskatz]

It's cases like this that make you wish sometimes they would just give it up and tell the truth.
I can't imagine having to live with something so horrible everyday of my life and pretending something different.

 

[Bunny]

Cami, are you still there?

 

[sharpar]

But now Jules, there IS evidence within the hands of his daughters. So how to explain that away now?


Why would it be too far fetched to believe he got a druggie to help him?

The hair came from an unknown source - it didnt match the murdering hippie/ intruders he has always claimed were there. The family did laundry in a community laundrymat plus both colette and jeff were out that day among
alot of people so the hair could have transferred in any number of ways. It is no evidence of an intruder or his innocence. He is guilty guilty guilty.
He and Darlie Routier are soul mates - cut from the same cloth and told almost identical stories and have tons of supporters that are sure the big bad old justice system convicted them and that they will be set free.

 

[sharpar]

isnt it ironic - McMurderer and barbie get all kinds of time to spout their nonsense and the only one left to speak for the victims is chastised and
given the last few minutes . Shame on Larry for allowing those media ho's to
use the airways to lie and deceive the public and claim not guilty with straight faces .
It never stops being about Jeffie .........................

 

[Bunny]

Considering that as I understand it Kathryn's a paralegal, and considering the mistakes in the defense's filings and that indications are that Kathryn doesn't know the evidence very well (and I'm given to understand that Mac doesn't pay attention to a lot of it either), I'm wondering, is it possible or likely that Kathryn herself might have written some or all of these recent motions?

 

[Bunny]

As in Dr. Sam Sheppard's case, reasonable doubt also existed in this case from the word "go". Hence, Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald should have been found to be "not guilty".

Though, if I could have, I would have tossed the prosecutor into prison for withholding exculpatory evidence.

The evidence against MacDonald was so incredibly overwhelming and voluminous that the jury found him guilty beyond any reasonable doubt and convicted him in only 6½ hours. Not one of his many, many lawyers in all the years since has even managed to begin to make even the slightest dent in that evidence, his appeals have all failed, and he will most likely remain in prison until he draws his last miserable breath.

The courts also found that the prosecution conducted themselves admirably and that no evidence whatsoever was wrongly withheld.

 

[Wudge]

The evidence against MacDonald was so incredibly overwhelming and voluminous that the jury found him guilty beyond any reasonable doubt and convicted him in only 6½ hours. Not one of his many, many lawyers in all the years since has even managed to begin to make even the slightest dent in that evidence, his appeals have all failed, and he will most likely remain in prison until he draws his last miserable breath.

The courts also found that the prosecution conducted themselves admirably and that no evidence whatsoever was wrongly withheld.

(snicker)

 

[Bunny]

You just described sociopathic tendencies--such as the ability to talk themselves into believing their own crap. And I find hypnosis to be highly unreliable--especially when the subject is a manipulative personality with a background in medicine.

Good point about the "manipulative personality with a background in medicine," BGG!

I've never seen the hypnosis session on tape, but with permission from my friend Justthefacts, who has said I may quote his posts, here's some good info about the hypnosis session:

There are a number of problems with that hypnosis session. Here are the highlights:

1) The videotape clearly shows that MacDonald had 2 separate sessions. He wore 2 different shirts in the footage as did the examiner.

2) MacDonald's arm is outstretched in 1 of the sessions and his hands are clasped in the other session.

3) MacDonald provides far more detail during these sessions than he did to the CID in 1970 and at the Grand Jury hearings in 1974-1975.

4) The descriptions he gave of the intruders from these sessions don't even come close to matching the "suspects" from the Stoeckley group.

5) Considering he flunked a polygraph exam only months after the murders, his recollections during hypnosis 9 years after the murders, are meaningless.

Justthefacts.

 

[Bunny]

There is one factor that has always struck me. MacDonald had been a high school football player, and was at the time a Green Beret. Yet a bump on the head and one knife wound had incapacitated him while his wife and children were being butchered. Why didn't this fit and strong man fight to the death against the kind of intruders MacDonald claims to have invaded his apartment? The obvious answer is a crime scene staged by MacDonald himself.

Mac didn't fight because, according to him, he just couldn't seem to manage to get his arms free of that old, thin, worn-out pajama top, and couldn't manage to kick that lightweight afghan off his feet. And of course he claims he was just waking from sleep, so the "intruders" had the advantage of surprise. I suppose he just forgot about the fact that Colette also would have been woken from sleep, and that she'd also taken medication which would have made her even more sleepy, but still managed to fight to the death for her own life and her children's lives. Even little 2½-year-old Kristen fought harder for her life than he did.

There was no female chanting in the living room of 544 Castle Drive on the night of February 16-17, 1970. No struggle with three male oven-mitt-wearing attackers took place in the living room or hallway or anywhere else that night, and no blood-dripping candles were ever found. No floppy hats except the one on the closet shelf which, it can be assumed, belonged to Colette. No Stoeckley, no Mazerolle (who was in jail during the murders); no Cathy Perry or Greg Mitchell or Dwight Smith. No prints on any piece of evidence which are unidentified; no fibers matched to any assailant except Mac himself. Mac's pajama thread found entwined around a bloody hair of Colette's, the bedding evidence, his bloody footprint exiting but not entering Kristen's room, the holes in his pajama top, the DNA results showing that no "intruder's" DNA matched that in any of those "crucial" exhibits chosen by the defense; the repeated demonstrations of Mac's consciousness of guilt...and a hair "clutched" in Colette's hand which Mac always insisted could only have come from her murderer and which was found to be his own.

Add it up and it's a recipe for lifetime incarceration.

 

[blueclouds]

The hair came from an unknown source - it didnt match the murdering hippie/ intruders he has always claimed were there. The family did laundry in a community laundrymat plus both colette and jeff were out that day among
alot of people so the hair could have transferred in any number of ways. It is no evidence of an intruder or his innocence. He is guilty guilty guilty.
He and Darlie Routier are soul mates - cut from the same cloth and told almost identical stories and have tons of supporters that are sure the big bad old justice system convicted them and that they will be set free.

Laundry hey? That's a new one. Gotta love rumors. I could state all kinds of things too that could become "fact".

As for the Larry King thing, CLEARLY Collette's brother was being very rude and "lengthy" in his statements and trying to take over the show. That's not how to get through to people at all. I think MacDonald is guilty but when you have someone like Bob going on and on and on and not getting to any one point, I stop listening.

For Larry, it doesn't matter if it was the President, he wouldn't let anyone take over the show.

I didn't say he's innocent, I think he DID have help. And supplying some druggie all he can "eat" get high with for his help and then giving him an overdose would have been very easy for him to do.

 

[desertjade]

I don't believe he premeditated her murder. An explosion of rage during an argument is more likely the cause. But yes, he killed his baby for his own self-survival. She is the probably the one murder he premeditated. It's possible he was abusing diet pills in the month and half preceding the murders. He certainly exhibited the symptoms of ingesting amphetemines in the aftermath of the murders. He had diet pills in his home and his office at the base. He had a closet full of drugs as a matter of fact. They also found two tiny bottles of might be Narcan in his sink trap after the murders. Narcan is used to counteract the exitability of the speed.

I seem to recall that he was on amphetamines , with very little sleep at the time of the murders . For someone who has proclaimed his innocence all these years , he sure seems quite calm about the whole thing whenever he is being interviewed . If I remember right , in the crime scene was an overturned coffee table and a magazine article about the Manson killings ..