NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

[Fritzy's Mom]

Oh yes thank you. I should have pm'd you. It came last Friday. Forgive my tardiness in thanking you. I was at hospital all last week as my mum was back in so not much time on the computer, but she's home now and doing fine.

Oh, good! I'm glad it arrived...Don't be surprised if you find brownie crumbs in it!

Hope your mom is doing well...:bang:

 

[Fritzy's Mom]

Ah ha Cami rubs her hands together.

LOL...well, you know what? I would really like to hear from someone who has read Fatal Justice...I always like to hear the other side...

Anybody read it?

 

[LinasK]

LOL...well, you know what? I would really like to hear from someone who has read Fatal Justice...I always like to hear the other side...

Anybody read it?

Yes, I did years ago. I'm pretty sure it's still in my bookcase, want me to go get it? I think the title is Fatal Vision...

 

[Fritzy's Mom]

Yes, I did years ago. I'm pretty sure it's still in my bookcase, want me to go get it? I think the title is Fatal Vision...

No, No, No...Not Fatal Vision, Fatal Justice. Fatal Justice is the book that, supposedly, rebuts much of what is in Fatal Vision. Do you have that one?

Kalypso: I think you said you read it...anything interesting?

 

[lauriej]

I think you are referring to False Witness, a BBC documentary. Yes, Macdonald thought it would do for him what the Thin Blue Line did for ________ (you can tell I don't know his name).

..........randall adams ?

http://sun.soci.niu.edu/~critcrim/wrong/adams.txt


FEELING FREE WRONGLY JAILED FOR 12 YEARS, RANDALL ADAMS IS HAVING HIS SAY

After 12 years behind bars for a murder he didn`t commit, Randall Adams
insists he isn`t bitter.

``Psychiatrists like to meet me,`` says the subject of the acclaimed 1988
movie documentary ``The Thin Blue Line.`` ``Everyone comments on my sense of
peace, my gentleness. I do have a sense of peace. I came 72 hours from being
executed. At that point, you better make peace with yourself.``

.............side note: i 'm beyond thrilled that JM's parole hearing fizzled...and hope that it was a real sense of closure for collette's brother to finally face him after all these years and really let go...

.. and personally....even if he HAD admitted guilt/remorse....WTH should he go free ?????? ever ????

 

[cami]

LOL...well, you know what? I would really like to hear from someone who has read Fatal Justice...I always like to hear the other side...

Anybody read it?

Fatal Justice is nothing but trash and that's where it belongs--in the bin. The authors not once ever contacted the prosecution for their side of the story, the just took Macdonald at his word. And it's been edited by MacDonald.

The authors utilized a "cut and paste" method of bringing the FOIA documents to the public. Anything that pointed straight to guilt was excised and anything that creates reasonable doubt or suppression by the Army was highlighted. Pages missing from reports, etc.

Here's one tiny "for instance"

"Knowledge about hairs under the nails of murder victims, hairs that didn't match Dr. MacDonald, should not have been kept secret, but in long suppressed lab note R-11 the army lab tech writes in the last line: ". . . they are not going to be reported by me."

What CID lab note R-11 actually says:

"I did not label all the other vials containing fibres & hairs (#1, #7, #8) but gave #'s and slides comparisons to these #'s, since they are not going to be reported by me"


FJ charges of incompetence and government cover-ups regarding the trace evidence have been systematically proven to be either exaggerated or completely false. The documents are here at the Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site. These documents, as my good friend jtf likes to say, should dull the cries of injustice coming from the pages of Fatal Justice.

 

[cami]

I too am not sur eof the molestation charge although I would not be surprised. It happens all the time in "normal" families.

Anywho, imo it probably hasmor eto do with COlette and her growing independence. She was getting her education, raising her kids, and starting to speak her mind. MacDoanld, to me, seems to be the type of man who CANNOT be arond a woman that speaks her mind. Or GOD FORBID---be right in some instances. I think they got into an arguement ove rhte bedwetting thing, she mentioned that she had asked her professor in class and he agreed with her over MacDonald as to what they should do about the problem.


I know that is kinda out there, but that is what I think!

Yes that's part of what I believe sent him into that rage that night--the balance between he and Colette. This guy had to maintain control and over his wife and family. When you read his Grand Jury testimony, you realize how important it was to him to maintain a sort of power over Colette. He was extremely concerned about manliness and maintaining gender roles. She was demure, feminine and most likely given the times, did not ever argue back.

However as the '60's were a leading time of change for us all, I believe it was Colette's changing and not being the obediant little wife any longer. The evidence is there for all to see. She was completing her education, planning on getting a job teaching (which Mac derided as only messing or piddling), she brought up a family problem that evening with her class, the professor and the class sided with her, not MacDonald. I think this most likely drove him to madness considering his adjustment.

His grand jury testimony is very eye opening concerning this issue.

 

[cami]

..........randall adams ?

http://sun.soci.niu.edu/~critcrim/wrong/adams.txt


FEELING FREE WRONGLY JAILED FOR 12 YEARS, RANDALL ADAMS IS HAVING HIS SAY

After 12 years behind bars for a murder he didn`t commit, Randall Adams
insists he isn`t bitter.

``Psychiatrists like to meet me,`` says the subject of the acclaimed 1988
movie documentary ``The Thin Blue Line.`` ``Everyone comments on my sense of
peace, my gentleness. I do have a sense of peace. I came 72 hours from being
executed. At that point, you better make peace with yourself.``

.............side note: i 'm beyond thrilled that JM's parole hearing fizzled...and hope that it was a real sense of closure for collette's brother to finally face him after all these years and really let go...

.. and personally....even if he HAD admitted guilt/remorse....WTH should he go free ?????? ever ????

Oh thanks for the name. Yep it fizzled, thank goodness. He never ever deserves to be free.

 

[cami]

Oh, good! I'm glad it arrived...Don't be surprised if you find brownie crumbs in it!

Hope your mom is doing well...:bang:

LOL, Brownies are my favourite. I make a mean brownie.

My mum is doing well thanks. She had a small stroke but is out of hospital and is now on aspirin therapy for stroke prevention. She's a tough old dolly bird is my mum. I say she'll outlive all of us kids, LOL.

 

[Fritzy's Mom]

Here's one tiny "for instance"

"Knowledge about hairs under the nails of murder victims, hairs that didn't match Dr. MacDonald, should not have been kept secret, but in long suppressed lab note R-11 the army lab tech writes in the last line: ". . . they are not going to be reported by me."

What CID lab note R-11 actually says:

"I did not label all the other vials containing fibres & hairs (#1, #7, #8) but gave #'s and slides comparisons to these #'s, since they are not going to be reported by me"

Hmmmm, that's not good...

If I caught too many of those, I would probably dismiss the entire book as being intentionally misleading. Why even bother trying to mislead when the documents are public record and claims such as this can so easily be verified or discounted?

The reviews of the book are what caught my attention...some of them stated that the book was quite convincing...

FJ charges of incompetence and government cover-ups regarding the trace evidence have been systematically proven to be either exaggerated or completely false. The documents are here at the Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site. These documents, as my good friend jtf likes to say, should dull the cries of injustice coming from the pages of Fatal Justice.

Okay...that site is downright dangerous - It has practically everything ever generated on this case (even psychological reports). Once I start reading that kind of stuff, I get hooked...one night, I swear, I spent six hours reading Darlie transcripts... When I get some time, I'm going to do some serious reading there...

I don't pretend to know this case as well as you obviously do, but there are a couple of things that I found troubling...among them:

1. One of the officers responding to the MacDonald house on the night of the attacks reported seeing a woman standing on a street corner on the way to the MacDonald home who matched the description of the woman MacDonald gave (long stringy hair, floppy hat). That's quite a coincidence, wouldn't you say?

2. Some guy reported that he accidentally called the MacDonald home at the time of the attacks. He meant to call a different Dr. MacDonald...Anyway, I don't remember what specifically was said, but didn't he report that some man answered the phone and said something bizarre?

 

[Fritzy's Mom]

My mum is doing well thanks. She had a small stroke but is out of hospital and is now on aspirin therapy for stroke prevention. She's a tough old dolly bird is my mum. I say she'll outlive all of us kids, LOL.

Glad to hear it...tell her your online buddies are pullin' for her!

 

[cami]

[/i]

Hmmmm, that's not good...

If I caught too many of those, I would probably dismiss the entire book as being intentionally misleading. Why even bother trying to mislead when the documents are public record and claims such as this can so easily be verified or discounted?

The reviews of the book are what caught my attention...some of them stated that the book was quite convincing...


Okay...that site is downright dangerous - It has practically everything ever generated on this case (even psychological reports). Once I start reading that kind of stuff, I get hooked...one night, I swear, I spent six hours reading Darlie transcripts... When I get some time, I'm going to do some serious reading there...

I don't pretend to know this case as well as you obviously do, but there are a couple of things that I found troubling...among them:

1. One of the officers responding to the MacDonald house on the night of the attacks reported seeing a woman standing on a street corner on the way to the MacDonald home who matched the description of the woman MacDonald gave (long stringy hair, floppy hat). That's quite a coincidence, wouldn't you say?

2. Some guy reported that he accidentally called the MacDonald home at the time of the attacks. He meant to call a different Dr. MacDonald...Anyway, I don't remember what specifically was said, but didn't he report that some man answered the phone and said something bizarre?

There is massive reading to be done that's for sure, if anyone is ever interested in getting up to snuff on this case. I've been at it for quite some time now and I am only still on the Grand Jury testimonies. I'm part of a group elsewhere that has been discussing this since 1999. Now with that new site with all the documents yes it can all be easily verified. There's hard core MacDonald supporters who have jumped ship since the onset of that site.

1. MacDonald described the woman as having long stringy, dirty, blonde hair, wearing boots and a floppy hat. The MP, Ken Mica, who saw the woman on the corner described her as wearing a raincoat and a floppy hat. He even mentioned that she had nice legs. The only thing they had in common was the floppy hat. That woman has never been identified.

When you read the Article 32, you discover that one of the investigators, Hawkins, chased a lead on these hippie intruders to Jay MacDonald and his friends at Fire Island. The description Jeff MacDonald gave of these four people in his living room closes matches his brother's friends--the Fire Island Four. Lastly, no physical or trace evidence was ever found of intruders in the MacDonald apt.


2. Yeah, Jimmy Friar. He was a patient at Womack under the care of a Dr. MacDonald. He was being treated for drug and alcohol abuse. He left the hospital, without permission, and spent the night in a bar getting tanked. He allegedly called the Macdonald home looking for his doctor. Helena, the woman, allegedly answered the phone and giggled. He said he heard a man hollering in the background to hang up the phone. The problem with Jimmy's story is he called a newspaper reporter, from prison, and gave him the story. The defense did interview him but he never appeared at the trial as a witness so the jury did not hear his story. The prosecution learned about this issue from the defense. The gentleman's alcohol and drug abuse lessens his credibility especially on the night in question. He was drunk in a bar. I am unable to find much from the defense of course, but there is an affidavit from Brian Murtagh regards this issue here

This Jimmy Friar story is a red herring as is Helena Stockely or what we like to call the Stockeley Seven, as it's seven people she incriminated as being in that apartment committing the murders.

If you are going to start reading on this case, a good starting point might be MacDonald's April 6th interview with the CID. It's the first time he gave his story, under oath, about what happened in the home that night. Then I would go to the Article 32 testimonies. Paulk, Mica, Tevere, Duffy were the first MP's on the scene. Then Ivory and Shaw.

Here's the links

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/court_transcripts.html

The lab documents are at http://www.azwest.com/c&j/.

You will need a zip program to unzip the files. Winzip is good.

 

[Fritzy's Mom]

Cami:

Well, I said it would happen, and it did...I'm hooked! I've been reading over there for two nights now...

Thanks for your recommendations - I will look at them next...

I started just randomly picking out stuff that looked interesting and then decided to read through MacDonald's 1979 trial testimony. Some of my thoughts...

1. Freddy Kassab was, indeed, a man obsessed. It seems that his and Mildred's life completely and permanently changed on the morning of Feb. 17th... I have a great deal of respect for him, but also pity - his life became so consumed with this case that he never returned to work and pretty much lived the remainder of it either fighting for justice or living in seclusion.

2. Reading some of the stuff on that site makes you almost feel like a voyeur...personal e-mails and letters, especially. Of course, that didn't stop me! Interesting was the first letter Joe McGinnis wrote to Freddy Kassab (that had to have been difficult) and the subsequent note he sent when Freddy was dying. Also, it's apparent in the e-mails between Kathryn K. and Bob Stevenson that both are exercising a great deal of restraint - definitely some undercurrents of hostility there...

Also, I would LOVE to read some of the letters MacDonald wrote to Tonie/Tonnette/Big Red! Oh, I bet those are juicy! Supposedly, he was having sex with her at the prison...

3. The autopsy and crime scene photos say it all...MacDonald's wounds are just ridiculous compared to what Collette and the girls suffered. The picture of Kristen in her bed is especially disturbing... Also, when I read that the word "pig" was written by someone wearing a (surgical?) glove, I thought "uh oh - that ain't good!"

4. Dr. Silverman's psychological evalutaion of MacDonald...welllllll, where do I begin?! As I first started reading it, I was thinking "oh, man - this is just devastating," but, by about the middle of page 3, I got a little perturbed...It wasn't telling me much. The report is, basically, just alot of conclusory statements written in psycho-drivel; you get the feeling he was writing it with a journal of abnormal psychology in one hand and a thesaurus in the other. I mean, how many different ways does he need to say that this individual is deeply disturbed? You get the feeling he is taking his role as a hired gun very seriously - he's going to make sure the prosecution gets its money's worth...

The problem is that he does very little to explain his findings...he just makes these damning statements about MacDonald's character/personality and never tells how or why he formed those opinions. In the few instances where he does back up what he says, his evidence seems flimsy, to say the least. Example: he says that because MacDonald "saw" animal figures in the ink blot test, he has homicidal tendencies (I'm paraphrasing here - that's the gist of his statement, not verbatim). In another instance, he seems to be describing a test where MacDonald was asked to draw human figures. MacDonald drew a male form with "undefined breasts" and, from that, Silverman opined evidence of strong aggressiveness...

I'm not really sure how much to make of his report. He definitely believes that MacDonald is a latent homosexual who was doing everything possible (actually, going to great extremes) to deny/suppress those feelings - joining the Green Berets, associating himself with the boxing team, acting like Mr. Machismo with his aggessive (sometimes obnoxious), critical, know-it-all attitude, working out with weights, etc. - and he definitely believes that he was capable of "snapping." Even with its shortcomings, the report is disasterous for MacDonald.

5. Bob Stevenson comes across as a bit of a drama queen, on paper anyway. While Freddy Kassab seemed to be able to keep his emotions in check - his writings were very factual and methodical - Stevenson comes across as, well... annoying. In his letter to the parole board, he talks about how the Stevenson family DNA will not be passed on because of the death of Collette and her girls, yet HE HAS CHILDREN OF HIS OWN! What's that all about? Also, he has a real flair for expressing outrage and indignation, but no ability to make it seem sincere. In his writings, to me anyway, he comes across as nothing more than a blowhard looking for someone to listen to him - he doesn't sound like a loving, distraught brother...

6. Do you know why Collette's father killed himself?

7. MacDonald's testimony does not read well - I wonder how he came across in person? He seems angry at times, obviously lying at others, and the story he tells of fighting off three attackers with his pajama top is just plain ridiculous. You really have to read that testimony to get a sense of just how improbable his story is - that shirt should have been ripped to pieces, and he should have been beaten to a pulp. Just completely unbelievable...

Okay, that's it for now... I'll look at what you suggested when I get a chance and tell you what I think...

What a horrible, horrible case this is...

 

[cami]

1. Freddy Kassab was, indeed, a man obsessed. It seems that his and Mildred's life completely and permanently changed on the morning of Feb. 17th... I have a great deal of respect for him, but also pity - his life became so consumed with this case that he never returned to work and pretty much lived the remainder of it either fighting for justice or living in seclusion.

It did consume them, they died still grieving deeply for Colette and the children and MacDonald. They loved him deeply too and their betrayal at his hands is what they never got over but I also think both carried unresolved guilt for urging Colette to rekindle her romance with Mac while she was in college. Colette was deeply loved by both of them. But yes their grief appears to be more all consuming.

2. Reading some of the stuff on that site makes you almost feel like a voyeur...personal e-mails and letters, especially. Of course, that didn't stop me! Interesting was the first letter Joe McGinnis wrote to Freddy Kassab (that had to have been difficult) and the subsequent note he sent when Freddy was dying. Also, it's apparent in the e-mails between Kathryn K. and Bob Stevenson that both are exercising a great deal of restraint - definitely some undercurrents of hostility there...

It does, doesn't it. I try to read just the stuff that pertains to the hearings and the trial and the evidence and not those personal letters and emails. Although I did read the Stevenson/MacDonald email exchange. I've haven't read the Kassab/McGinniss exchange as yet.

3. The autopsy and crime scene photos say it all...MacDonald's wounds are just ridiculous compared to what Collette and the girls suffered. The picture of Kristen in her bed is especially disturbing... Also, when I read that the word "pig" was written by someone wearing a (surgical?) glove, I thought "uh oh - that ain't good!"

Yes especially when you learn that:
- B type blood (Jeffrey MacDonalds) was found dripped on the kitchen floor in front of the cupboard under the sink that contained a package of surgical gloves.

- a finger of the bloody gloves used to write the word pig was found in the bloody bedsheet and four fragments found in the master bedroom.

- 22 fibres and threads from the pajama top were found on top of the bed and pillow where the word pig was written on the headboard.

-2 fibres from the pajama top were found under the bed

4. Dr. Silverman's psychological evalutaion of MacDonald...welllllll, where do I begin?! As I first started reading it, I was thinking "oh, man - this is just devastating," but, by about the middle of page 3, I got a little perturbed...It wasn't telling me much. The report is, basically, just alot of conclusory statements written in psycho-drivel; you get the feeling he was writing it with a journal of abnormal psychology in one hand and a thesaurus in the other. I mean, how many different ways does he need to say that this individual is deeply disturbed? You get the feeling he is taking his role as a hired gun very seriously - he's going to make sure the prosecution gets its money's worth...

The problem is that he does very little to explain his findings...he just makes these damning statements about MacDonald's character/personality and never tells how or why he formed those opinions. In the few instances where he does back up what he says, his evidence seems flimsy, to say the least. Example: he says that because MacDonald "saw" animal figures in the ink blot test, he has homicidal tendencies (I'm paraphrasing here - that's the gist of his statement, not verbatim). In another instance, he seems to be describing a test where MacDonald was asked to draw human figures. MacDonald drew a male form with "undefined breasts" and, from that, Silverman opined evidence of strong aggressiveness...

Yes, I see what you mean. It would be helpful if he would have referenced the individual tests that he drew his conclusions from and how the conclusions are formed, what the red flags are.

Yes, I think he was trying to give the prosecution their monies worth too--to balance or counteract the reports from the psychologists hired by the defense. It certainly is a loaded report. The defense tried to have the charges dismissed citing their own psychologist's reports that MacDonald was not the type of person who could commit this crime. The prosecutors wanted a psychologist/psychiatrist to say that he indeed was the type of person who could commit these brutal murders hence Dr. Silverman. None of it was ever used at trial.

5. Bob Stevenson comes across as a bit of a drama queen, on paper anyway. While Freddy Kassab seemed to be able to keep his emotions in check - his writings were very factual and methodical - Stevenson comes across as, well... annoying. In his letter to the parole board, he talks about how the Stevenson family DNA will not be passed on because of the death of Collette and her girls, yet HE HAS CHILDREN OF HIS OWN! What's that all about? Also, he has a real flair for expressing outrage and indignation, but no ability to make it seem sincere. In his writings, to me anyway, he comes across as nothing more than a blowhard looking for someone to listen to him - he doesn't sound like a loving, distraught brother...

I think what Bob meant was their was no mitochrondial dna to pass on, just his male dna. At least that's what I got from it but I would have to read it again. I only skimmed and yes he did sound over emotional. Some of it doesn't even make sense to me. Sorry I respectfully disagree with you that he doesn't sound like a distraught brother. He's guided by one thing. Seeing those two tiny white coffins of his neices going into the ground. And yes he's angry. I guess we can't understand it, but this crime destroyed them, Freddie, Mildred and Bob.

No, I don't know why their father killed himself. I don't think they know other than he was a bit depressed.

7. MacDonald's testimony does not read well - I wonder how he came across in person? He seems angry at times, obviously lying at others, and the story he tells of fighting off three attackers with his pajama top is just plain ridiculous. You really have to read that testimony to get a sense of just how improbable his story is - that shirt should have been ripped to pieces, and he should have been beaten to a pulp. Just completely unbelievable...

I too found Mac to be evasive and angry on the witness stand. Just as Silverman referred to in his psychological report "he is subject to respond with anger when his person is questioned on whatever basis." Didn't go over too well with the jury. If your innocent, there's no need for the lies. He told so many lies, lies upon lies.

Yes, unbelievable isn't it. What did Mr. Club and Mr. Knife do while Mac was fending off Mr. Icepick with the pajama top. Just stand there observing? His story is just so ridiculous it's beyond belief.

Their deaths and the manner they were inflicted is just horrible I agree. It doesn't bear thinking about sometimes. Especially Colette, she fought so hard for her life and her children's lives, she's the hero here, she's the Green Beret tiger fighting for her children and I can't help but continue to think of her last words. "jeff, jeff, why are you doing this to me"

Sorry, I got you hooked, though. I am on to reading US Atty Whitney's response to the parole submission. I haven't even read all the trial testimony as yet. There's so much to read.

 

[Kaly]

I agree with everything that Cami says!

Hey, since we are not allowed to talk about Mac's wife, Kathyrn, over on c&j, why not here. Such as, I wonder how close she is getting to divorcing him now that he lost the parole hearing? (I looked up Allegany County in MD and they don't have divorces online there yet). How long do you think she'll wait? She's 44? Geez, if I were her, I'd worry that time were running out for me for finding an available man -- but she is still good looking.

And doesn't he look like he has about 2 TEETH in his photos now? She's way too good for him. So what the heck is the matter with her?

 

[Fritzy's Mom]

The defense tried to have the charges dismissed citing their own psychologist's reports that MacDonald was not the type of person who could commit this crime.

Interesting how two qualified doctors can reach such opposing conclusions...it's, obviously, all about the money.

I've always believed there should be a system whereby the defense and prosecution have to come to an agreement over which expert(s) to use (before anyone ever sees any evidence) and then split their fee(s)... I like the idea of professional juries, too.

I think what Bob meant was their was no mitochrondial dna to pass on, just his male dna.

Ahhhhh, I think you're right...he does talk about DNA of the mother...

Sorry I respectfully disagree with you that he doesn't sound like a distraught brother. He's guided by one thing. Seeing those two tiny white coffins of his neices going into the ground. And yes he's angry. I guess we can't understand it, but this crime destroyed them, Freddie, Mildred and Bob.

Maybe I am being too hard on him...I know if my brother-in-law killed my sister, I would turn into the bit** from hell...

It's just that he reminds me alot of Sam Shephard's (sp?) son, who has spent his entire life trying to clear his father's name. The guy is weird - very weird - and you don't get a good vibe from him.

I remember seeing Bob Stevenson on some show (American Justice, maybe) and he said something about telling his children that Papa Bear can kill Mama Bear - it made me very uncomfortable...I get the same creepy feeling from his writings.

It doesn't mean I don't have a great deal of sympathy for him, though...he's carried around so much rage for so long that his life has been, in a sense, also taken by MacDonald...

I too found Mac to be evasive and angry on the witness stand. Just as Silverman referred to in his psychological report "he is subject to respond with anger when his person is questioned on whatever basis." Didn't go over too well with the jury. If your innocent, there's no need for the lies. He told so many lies, lies upon lies.

Well, I didn't think things could get much worse than his trial testimony, but I was wrong...I read your link.

Where do I begin?!

First of all, now I understand the speculation about him using amphetamines...Good God - the man could not shut up! He reminded me of my 5-year old niece after she's had a can of pop and bag of skittles - just endless rambling and non-sensical chatter :doh:. Let's see...we heard about the neighbor who watches across the street with her binoculars and how he teased her about it once at a party, Lt. Harrison's wacky war stories (BTW, wasn't there some rumor that something was going on between these two?), the various health maladies of all the women in his family (and how he was supplying them with drugs he had stolen from the military), and on and on... At first, I thought he was just trying to be conversational and friendly, trying to establish a good rapport with the interviewers. But as things went on, I got the feeling he was not entirely in control of himself...this was not just nerves at work, he was on something... Combine with the fact that he was so obviously trying to be evasive and you can see why the interviewers knew something was up...

:When he was asked outright if he put the ice pick wounds on his stomach himself, he just said "no" and then proceeded to ramble on about how his lungs were bubbling and he knew he had a pneumothorax (any innocent person would, of course, react with outrage at the mere suggestion);

:He would constantly repeat the question he had just been asked, obviously trying to buy time as he fabricated his story;

:He would try to place blame, draw attention to the actions of others - the "idiot" doctor, the "" operator, the medic who was giving him mouth to mouth when he so obviously did not need it;

:He even admitted in his statement that his own mother had caught him changing his story (which he attributed to having read the newspaper - after all, the newspaper would certainly know more about what happened then he did);

:His story changes during the course of the interview - the interviewers have to "remind" him that he was watching Johnny Carson, that he did the dishes, that he wore gloves when he did the dishes, and a whole host of other "facts;"

:Throughout the interview he would not JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION. It was so apparent what was going on here - he was trying to evade detail, evade having to do too much explaining - so he would just go off in some other direction in hopes of distracting the interviewers.

This story differs remarkably from the story he told at trial...

Yes, unbelievable isn't it. What did Mr. Club and Mr. Knife do while Mac was fending off Mr. Icepick with the pajama top. Just stand there observing? His story is just so ridiculous it's beyond belief.

And you know what? After reading the trial testimony, I had the feeling that the prosecutor did not really drive this point home as well as he should have. When asked what the others were doing when he was fighting off ice pick man or baseball bat man, he would invariably say that the others were hitting or punching him. Come on!! The prosecutor should have been all over this - asking him how he was able to fend off three armed men at one time, asking how he was able to keep them all in his sight, asking him why three armed men were not able to overcome one guy with a pajama top - but he wasn't. At least it didn't seem that way to me on paper. Obviously, though, the jury got the point...

Their deaths and the manner they were inflicted is just horrible I agree. It doesn't bear thinking about sometimes. Especially Colette, she fought so hard for her life and her children's lives, she's the hero here, she's the Green Beret tiger fighting for her children...

Colette actually had a compound fracture to her arm...the bone broke through her skin. I can't even imagine how grizzly that must have been to see her body...

...and I can't help but continue to think of her last words. "jeff, jeff, why are you doing this to me"

Now, do you really believe that she said anything like that? Maybe she did and he just turned the words around, but it seems to me like an awfully passive reaction to the situation at hand...If someone were beating me and my children to death, I can't see those words coming out of my mouth...To me, this just sounds like another one of his lies...

Sorry, I got you hooked, though.

Oh, no - I find it (him) fascinating. Did you ever read Ann Rule's Small Sacrifices about Diane Downs? She was another one...just bizarre in the way she looked at and lived her life. These people are so outside the norm that you can't help but want to study them...

 

[Fritzy's Mom]

Hey, since we are not allowed to talk about Mac's wife, Kathyrn, over on c&j, why not here.

Why aren't you allowed to talk about her?

Such as, I wonder how close she is getting to divorcing him now that he lost the parole hearing? (I looked up Allegany County in MD and they don't have divorces online there yet). How long do you think she'll wait?

I'm sure they view the parole hearing as just a minor disappointment. Remember, once the DNA evidence comes back, he's going to be set free...

-- but she is still good looking.

She's very attractive - and she doesn't look like a nitwit, either.

Truth be told, this woman does not care whether he did it or not. She loves loving a con...

And doesn't he look like he has about 2 TEETH in his photos now?

He was pretty darn good looking when he was younger, though (I'm talking about his time in the military, not in the late 70's when he had the pork chop side burns). I'm sure Colette thought she was one lucky lady...

 

[Kaly]

Why aren't you allowed to talk about her?

Because Mac has a revenge thing going for that forum. It's linked to a site that has tons and tons of documents on him, put up by an author who his attorney is suing. His people seem to read that forum, and they don't want "gossip" about Kathryn. Also, one moderator is scared that they will find a way to have it taken down. So they are very strict there.

He was pretty darn good looking when he was younger, though (I'm talking about his time in the military, not in the late 70's when he had the pork chop side burns). I'm sure Colette thought she was one lucky lady...

I remember those days well. I lived in Long Beach and down the street in Huntington Harbour from him. Never met him but briefly had a crush on him. I enjoy discussing his many girlfriends but you can't do it where the meatiest forum is. :-(

 

[Fritzy's Mom]

I remember those days well. I lived in Long Beach and down the street in Huntington Harbour from him. Never met him but briefly had a crush on him. I enjoy discussing his many girlfriends but you can't do it where the meatiest forum is. :-(

You know, I gather from much of the reading I've done that he was quite the during his California years...which is curious because some of the psychological reports indicate that he is gay - very strongly in denial, but gay nonetheless. It seems that acting out with women was just another of his ways to convince himself that he was actually a macho macho man...

I bet his time in California were the best years of his life - think about it...he was young, good looking, a doctor, a bachelor and, best of all, a very sympathetic character. He probably had women climbing all over him, feeling sorry for him and trying to make him happy, despite his overwhelming grief (gag!)...God, I bet he was just eating that up...

 

[Fritzy's Mom]

I just noticed something rather odd...

Look at http://www.themacdonaldcase.org/Letters.html. Isn't Christina Masewicz the same person who runs The Jeffrey MacDonald Information Site? Doesn't she now pronounce his guilt?