NC - Shaniya Davis, 5, Fayetteville, 10 Nov 2009 - Allegedly sold by mother #24

[dnrslucky1]

I think you are wrong. I don't think she had a dime to fight with.

That is very possible. But to hire an Attorney in a custody case against a mother is very costly. I'll bet about $10,000, remember there was only a $1000 reward! Sorry could not resist!

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Hi! What I'm still confused by is (reportedly) AD only had a part-time job, and she was "illegally" living with her sister in the mobile home. I wonder what story she told BL? She certainly didn't seem over the financial problems, so what she's charged with maybe was her motive all along for wanting Shaniya back? :waitasec: MOO

I get the feeling she was not asking for her back and she was just told it was time to be a mother.




"I just wanted her to be a mother," he said Saturday. "She was never part of her life."

http://www.fayobserver.com/Articles/2009/11/15/952445

I think mother means babysitter to BL.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Two more things...Wasnt there some info that AD was BL's babysitter at one point?
Also, has there been discussion of how MAM found that spot with the deer carcases to dump little Shaniya's body? Was he a hunter? Or maybe did an accomplice tip him off to that spot? Was there someone else with him? Hmmmmmmm.

BBM

Trying to catch up and didn't see an answer to your question so...

That was posted by one of our members who saw that in a blog that followed a WRAL news report.
It was strictly a rumor.

I don't think we have seen that info anywhere else, except that blog.

 

[ella971]

I get the feeling she was not asking for her back and she was just told it was time to be a mother.




"I just wanted her to be a mother," he said Saturday. "She was never part of her life."

http://www.fayobserver.com/Articles/2009/11/15/952445

I think mother means babysitter to BL.

Why? Aunt Carrie was taking care of her. What do you think?

 

[panthera]

I get the feeling she was not asking for her back and she was just told it was time to be a mother.




"I just wanted her to be a mother," he said Saturday. "She was never part of her life."

http://www.fayobserver.com/Articles/2009/11/15/952445

I think mother means babysitter to BL.

I agree, but when she refused to give Shaniya back after the weekend visit, I believe she had "other plans" for Shaniya which would benefit her financially. This is just my opinion, but the financial problems could have stemmed from drug use from the very beginning. MOO

 

[gitana1]

The statement you made (in bold) actually gives me some hope. You're right, if she handed her over willingly but expected her to be brought back, then yes it could still be considered kidnapping. However, if she was handed over during the commision of a felony (human trafficking, child abuse, prostitution) then even if she did not intend for her to be murdered, she is still culpable for what happend. For example, if someone is a "get away" driver, and has willfully drove to the scene knowing that a robbery was going to take place but never intended or KNEW that someone was going to be killed, even though he never stepped out of the car, he can be charged with murder.
AD most likely won't be charged with 1st degree, because they would have to show intent but even if charged with 2nd degree, she could get a life sentence.

From what I've seen its mostly speculation....that MAM told the police that she handed Shaniya over, I don't think that has been substantiated, and is mostly an assumption based on the fact that she wasn't arrested until after MAM turned himself in.

I'm not very educated regarding the felony murder rule and a possible death sentence and how it is applied in North carolina. I know there are a couple seemingly contrasting U.S. Supreme Court cases that discuss whehter death is appropriate in felony murder cases and a multi-pronged test was adopted, IIRC, to deal with that question.

I found a case in a lsiting of North carolina inmates that suggest to me that AD could be given a death sentence for prosituting her child if she acted with reckless indifference regarding the child's welfare.

"Fernando Garcia
Juliann Bolt was murdered in the ladies' room of her apartment complex clubhouse on 21 June 2000. On 10 July 2000, defendant Fernando Louis Garcia, III (See footnote 1) was indicted for the first- degree murder of Bolt. Defendant was tried capitally and was found guilty of first-degree murder under the felony murder rule,with attempted rape as the underlying felony. Following a capital sentencing proceeding, the jury recommended that defendant be sentenced to death, and the trial court entered judgment in accordance with that recommendation. Defendant appealed his conviction and sentence pursuant to N.C.G.S. § 7A- 27(a), and this Court heard oral argument in defendant's case on 13 October 2003. After consideration of the assignments of error raised by defendant on appeal and a thorough review of the transcript, the record on appeal, the briefs, and oral arguments, we find no error meriting reversal of defendant's capital conviction or death sentence." http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cach...lina+death+sentence&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Based on this, isn't AD eligible for a death sentence if charged with felony murder? I mean, selling one's five year old princess is about as recklessly indifferent to human life as it gets, IMO. Can anyone educate me a bit on this and why my take may be wrong?

 

[songline]

I never bought the one night stand BS not for one second.
So I wanted to hear from men, I made myself look nice and went out to interview them...

I have friends who write books and sometimes they just go into the street and talk to people.
So being a woman I wanted to hear it from men. (I went to the Dinner for a burger and started)
I asked men If I may interview them for a topic I am writing about called "the one night stand". Men were just too happy to talk. Here it is from 2 out of 6 men. But it was pretty similar in some ways.

Q = Question A= answer

Male 60 years old
Q - Did you ever have a one night stand?
A - Plenty of them in my day.LOL
Q - Did you ever go back again to same person.
A - That would not be a one night stand would it?
Q - OK you're right, but did you?
A - Yes, but if you are talking about having a sure thing that is different then a one night stand.
Q - You are right again. Do you remember any of their names?
the one night stands, not the sure thing..
A - He*k NO (lips get twisted)
Q - How many one night stands did you have?
A - More then I want to admit to.
Q - More then 5?
A - Yes
Q - Why were they only a one night er?
A - A man has to do what a man has to do, you know what I mean? opportunity meet a need you just take it.
Q - You don't remember even one name.?
A - Sometimes I did not even know their name we just hooked up, just happens.
Q- Did you ever get any of them pregnant?
A - How would I know?


MALE 42 years old
Q- Did you ever have a one night stand?
A- (with a smile) yes
Q - only once or many times.
A - I'd say more then once.
Q - What do you remember about any of them?
A - Not much
Q - can you give me something?
A - One kept me there all weekend she had a nice pad so I hung out.
Q - What did she look like?
A - She had some pretty big tata's
Q - If you ran into her today, would you remember her?
A - Not sure.
Q - Were you high or something?
A - We smoked lots of pot but nothing stronger.
Q - And you cant remember her?
A - We spent the time in bed all weekend.
Q - Do you remember any one nighters?
A - Not really, is that important?
Q - I just wondered how men feel about a one nighter?
A - I would not marry one of them, but to each his own.
Q - What do you mean by one of them?
A - Women with loose standards, not like you,
Q - Are you married now?
A - Yes and I have 2 kids
Q - Did you ever get anyone pregnant?
A - I never thought about it.

<<<THE END>>> I have 4 more interviews ...
OK there were a few more men I have interviewed tonight...
Nobody ever left a number for their one night stand to call them in case they got preg....

From the start I did not believe that LB took a baby after a one night stand NO...I can believe that she was his sure thing or that it was by appointment.
One night stand NO WAY...NO HOW....

 

[Patty G]

I agree, but when she refused to give Shaniya back after the weekend visit, I believe she had "other plans" for Shaniya which would benefit her financially. This is just my opinion, but the financial problems could have stemmed from drug use from the very beginning. MOO

BBM
I never heard anyone say "she refused to give Shaniya back?"

 

[panthera]

BBM
I never heard anyone say "she refused to give Shaniya back?"

I understood this came from Aunt Carey. I'll try to find the link now. MOO

 

[alwaysonmymind]

I'm not very educated regarding the felony murder rule and a possible death sentence and how it is applied in North carolina. I know there are a couple seemingly contrasting U.S. Supreme Court cases that discuss whehter death is appropriate in felony murder cases and a multi-pronged test was adopted, IIRC, to deal with that question.

I found a case in a lsiting of North carolina inmates that suggest to me that AD could be given a death sentence for prosituting her child if she acted with reckless indifference regarding the child's welfare.

"Fernando Garcia
Juliann Bolt was murdered in the ladies' room of her apartment complex clubhouse on 21 June 2000. On 10 July 2000, defendant Fernando Louis Garcia, III (See footnote 1) was indicted for the first- degree murder of Bolt. Defendant was tried capitally and was found guilty of first-degree murder under the felony murder rule,with attempted rape as the underlying felony. Following a capital sentencing proceeding, the jury recommended that defendant be sentenced to death, and the trial court entered judgment in accordance with that recommendation. Defendant appealed his conviction and sentence pursuant to N.C.G.S. § 7A- 27(a), and this Court heard oral argument in defendant's case on 13 October 2003. After consideration of the assignments of error raised by defendant on appeal and a thorough review of the transcript, the record on appeal, the briefs, and oral arguments, we find no error meriting reversal of defendant's capital conviction or death sentence." http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cach...lina+death+sentence&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Based on this, isn't AD eligible for a death sentence if charged with felony murder? I mean, selling one's five year old princess is about as recklessly indifferent to human life as it gets, IMO. Can anyone educate me a bit on this and why my take may be wrong?

I posted this a few threads ago. I thought AD would be eligible for the DP, if convicted of Felony Murder. impatientredhead is really good with the laws/statutes, etc.

Those Executed Who Did Not Directly Kill the VictimPosted: January 03, 2008
in Crimes Punishable by the Death PenaltyExclude from News and Dev page
Everyone who has been executed since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976 participated in a crime in which at least one victim died. In most cases, the person executed directly killed the victim. In a small minority of cases, the person executed ordered or contracted with another person to carry out the murder. In another group of cases, the person executed participated in a felony during which a victim died at the hands of another participant in the felony. The defendant in such cases was typically found guilty of "felony murder"or under the "law of parties," and in some states can receive the death penalty, despite not having killed or directed the killing of the victim. The US Supreme Court has restricted the use of the death penalty in such cases. See Enmund v. Florida and Tison v. Arizona.

We list below the cases that we are aware of where the defendant was found guilty of felony murder. We separately list the cases where the person executed contracted to have the victim killed, though these cases do not fit under the class of felony murder and are not meant to imply less culpability. We welcome any additions or corrections to these lists.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/thos...ly-kill-victim

 

[songline]

I think you are wrong. I don't think she had a dime to fight with.

If you mean AD had no dime. True she had the Birth right.
If you mean CLD had no dime. She did not need one, IMHO BL should have done the financial part of the fight.
MY MAIN POINT - he would not win a custody case, having lost 3 kids in a custody case.

 

[lbminnesota]

I agree, but when she refused to give Shaniya back after the weekend visit, I believe she had "other plans" for Shaniya which would benefit her financially. This is just my opinion, but the financial problems could have stemmed from drug use from the very beginning. MOO

The "refusal to give Shaniya back" story was Carey's first timeline associated with the Oct 31 weekend. I discount this story as changed the drop off date to October 9th with no mention of an angry call.

Shaniya went to visit her mother on Oct. 31. Lockhart said she packed Shaniya enough clothes for two days and expected to pick her up that Sunday.

But on Sunday morning, Lockhart said, Davis called and told her that she'd never see Shaniya again. Lockhart said Davis was angry that she had disciplined Shaniya for getting into a fight with her cousins.

"I was at a loss; I had no idea what to do," said Lockhart, who had no formal custody of Shaniya and could not demand her return. I knew when (my brother) came home, we were going to have to go to court and make some changes so we didn't have to endure this," Lockhart said.

That resolution never came. Bradley Lockhart had not returned from a job in Oregon when Shaniya disappeared.

Last Tuesday, Lockhart rang his sister with bizarre news. A neighbor called him to say that police were looking for Shaniya. As they were talking on the phone, police knocked on Carey Lockhart's door. They had found her name listed as a guardian at Shaniya's elementary school.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/408/story/1060102.html

 

[panthera]

The "refusal to give Shaniya back" story was Carey's first timeline associated with the Oct 31 weekend. I discount this story as changed the drop off date to October 9th with no mention of an angry call.

Shaniya went to visit her mother on Oct. 31. Lockhart said she packed Shaniya enough clothes for two days and expected to pick her up that Sunday.

But on Sunday morning, Lockhart said, Davis called and told her that she'd never see Shaniya again. Lockhart said Davis was angry that she had disciplined Shaniya for getting into a fight with her cousins.

"I was at a loss; I had no idea what to do," said Lockhart, who had no formal custody of Shaniya and could not demand her return.

"I knew when (my brother) came home, we were going to have to go to court and make some changes so we didn't have to endure this," Lockhart said.

That resolution never came. Bradley Lockhart had not returned from a job in Oregon when Shaniya disappeared.

Last Tuesday, Lockhart rang his sister with bizarre news. A neighbor called him to say that police were looking for Shaniya.

As they were talking on the phone, police knocked on Carey Lockhart's door. They had found her name listed as a guardian at Shaniya's elementary school.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/408/story/1060102.html

So the alleged threat not to return Shaniya has now been discounted?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I do not believe BL had a leg to stand on with regard to custody.
I think Shaniya would have ended up in foster care.
And we know that often times means abuse.

BL had lost custody of his other children to his in laws.
No Judge on earth would have granted him custody of Shaniya. Would NOT happen.
'
ONLY one thing could have happened which is that Carie would get custody...We do not know why they did not go that rout.

ALL the posts about BL going for custody. HAY GUYS - would never happen, he lost 3 in a custody case.
I think we had best switch our rage to something else.
BL COULD NOT GET HER.
MOO but I would bet on it.

I think if BL had gone for full custody he would have gotten it. I don't think she had any money to fight him in court and with a paternity test and the fact he had the informal custody of her for 4 years would weigh heavily in his favor.

 

[karen7868]

And they are sure stating as fact AD had a drug problem on HLN.

Since she is pregant and apparently still doing drugs, could she be charged with anything for endagering the unborn baby?

 

[gitana1]

We know BL talked to two families about giving Shaniya to AD and both those families told him they would take her. It is not much of a stretch to imagine those two families gave him plenty of reasons why not to give her to AD, they wanted her.

I hear you but I can't agree that "we know" he talked to some people about giving Shaniya to AD.
He could have discussed letting AD resume visitation. He could have discussed allowing her to extend her visit for a much longer period. He could have discussed allowing her They could be lying. The people quoted had some legal difficulties, reportedly, with BL, or some bad blood may have existed between them. So why would he be having such conversation with them about a child unrelated to them?
We know, apparently, what THEY reported, but not that what they reported is true or factual.
I'm trying hard to sift through what has been determined to be a known fact and what has been simply stated by various people. I'm just trying to be clear, here.

 

[lbminnesota]

I hear you but I can't agree that "we know" he talked to some people about giving Shaniya to AD.
He could have discussed letting AD resume visitation. He could have discussed allowing her to extend her visit for a much longer period. He could have discussed allowing her They could be lying. The people quoted had some legal difficulties, reportedly, with BL, or some bad blood may have existed between them. So why would he be having such conversation with them about a child unrelated to them?
We know, apparently, what THEY reported, but not that what they reported is true or factual.
I'm trying hard to sift through what has been determined to be a known fact and what has been simply stated by various people. I'm just trying to be clear, here.

From Brad - I last saw her October 2 From Carey - I dropped her off on Oct 9
Neither have mentioned any communication after that date.

 

[gitana1]

I never bought the one night stand BS not for one second.
So I wanted to hear from men, I made myself look nice and went out to interview them...

I have friends who write books and sometimes they just go into the street and talk to people.
So being a woman I wanted to hear it from men. (I went to the Dinner for a burger and started)
I asked men If I may interview them for a topic I am writing about called "the one night stand". Men were just too happy to talk. Here it is from 2 out of 6 men. But it was pretty similar in some ways.

Q = Question A= answer

Male 60 years old
Q - Did you ever have a one night stand?
A - Plenty of them in my day.LOL
Q - Did you ever go back again to same person.
A - That would not be a one night stand would it?
Q - OK you're right, but did you?
A - Yes, but if you are talking about having a sure thing that is different then a one night stand.
Q - You are right again. Do you remember any of their names?
the one night stands, not the sure thing..
A - He*k NO (lips get twisted)
Q - How many one night stands did you have?
A - More then I want to admit to.
Q - More then 5?
A - Yes
Q - Why were they only a one night er?
A - A man has to do what a man has to do, you know what I mean? opportunity meet a need you just take it.
Q - You don't remember even one name.?
A - Sometimes I did not even know their name we just hooked up, just happens.
Q- Did you ever get any of them pregnant?
A - How would I know?


MALE 42 years old
Q- Did you ever have a one night stand?
A- (with a smile) yes
Q - only once or many times.
A - I'd say more then once.
Q - What do you remember about any of them?
A - Not much
Q - can you give me something?
A - One kept me there all weekend she had a nice pad so I hung out.
Q - What did she look like?
A - She had some pretty big tata's
Q - If you ran into her today, would you remember her?
A - Not sure.
Q - Were you high or something?
A - We smoked lots of pot but nothing stronger.
Q - And you cant remember her?
A - We spent the time in bed all weekend.
Q - Do you remember any one nighters?
A - Not really, is that important?
Q - I just wondered how men feel about a one nighter?
A - I would not marry one of them, but to each his own.
Q - What do you mean by one of them?
A - Women with loose standards, not like you,
Q - Are you married now?
A - Yes and I have 2 kids
Q - Did you ever get anyone pregnant?
A - I never thought about it.

<<<THE END>>> I have 4 more interviews ...
OK there were a few more men I have interviewed tonight...
Nobody ever left a number for their one night stand to call them in case they got preg....

From the start I did not believe that LB took a baby after a one night stand NO...I can believe that she was his sure thing or that it was by appointment.
One night stand NO WAY...NO HOW....

But, if a one night stand results in a pregnancy, I think it's safe to say the contact would continue and possible other sexual encounters could ensue.
Sometimes one night stands, pregnancy or not, can eveolve into soemthing different. That's how my friend got married to her husband. They now have three kids and live in NZ, married for 18 years!

 

[mysticrose]

I do not believe BL had a leg to stand on with regard to custody.
I think Shaniya would have ended up in foster care.
And we know that often times means abuse.

BL had lost custody of his other children to his in laws.
No Judge on earth would have granted him custody of Shaniya. Would NOT happen.
'
ONLY one thing could have happened which is that Carie would get custody...We do not know why they did not go that rout.

ALL the posts about BL going for custody. HAY GUYS - would never happen, he lost 3 in a custody case.
I think we had best switch our rage to something else.
BL COULD NOT GET HER.
MOO but I would bet on it.

We do not know the facts behind the three custody cases and they took years for some reason.

I can tell you right now BL would have won custody no doubt about it in my mind.
Shaniya lived with him the majority of her life and that is huge in our court system. There is no court in this world that would have taken that baby away from what she was used to and put her in a home that has had less then stellar performance. They will not change custody arrangements verbal or court ordered. It would take an act of god for the court to change it.

AD could not hold a steady job or a home for that matter and it all comes into play once the Judge steps in...
JMO ....

 

[gitana1]

From Brad - I last saw her October 2 From Carey - I dropped her off on Oct 9
Neither have mentioned any communication after that date.

And that question has not been asked, to my knowledge.
Also, my post was in response to a different issue - one as to whether BL discussed with various people that he was "giving" Shaniya to AD. I take "giving" to mean, "Here, you keep her", as opposed to a visit or extended period of custodial time.