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MissMisty
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ND - Dru Sjodin, 22, Grand Forks, 22 Nov 2003 - #3
- Thread starter Doyle
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blueclouds
Former member
ANOTHER search scheduled... unfortunately, I think she'll surface from the river where her shoe was found. But, who knowshttp://crime.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.kstp.com/article/view/125629/
dannyodie
New Member
I have been reading much of the forums about dru. alot of places this fellow could have taken this woman. I wonder if anyone or the police have check his moms home, and places around his neighborhood? I read sometime back that someone said he was a carpenter or a drywall finisher? if he was working on a sub division project at the time she was abducted maybe he took her to one of those places. I have also read where one of her shoes was located beneath a bridge at a river, were there places before getting to the bridge where one could pull off the roadway? Iam from the south so I don't know much about when the weather turns to freezing temps enough to freeze the river, was the river just beginning to freeze that time of year or was it still flowing, if she were weighted down with stuff then naturally she would sink. the dive teams, have they found anything at all? could he just throw her over and the current sweep her downstream?
starpatch
New Member
I think she is in the river.
This case made me so darn mad at the system, in Minnesota.
Now I am definetly for the death penalty...was on the fence before. :twocents:
This case made me so darn mad at the system, in Minnesota.
Now I am definetly for the death penalty...was on the fence before. :twocents:
starpatch said:
I think she's in the river as well. And I hate the SOB that's sitting up there in his nice and cozy cell while all these volunteers were in the freezing temps trying to find her. I hope he suffers..........apparently he enjoys prison since he couldn't wait to get out and commit more crimes. Wish there was another punishment that could be given to him. But oh I forget, criminals have all the rights :furious:
Texana
Overreaching
One of the significant differences between the Smart case and other missing young women cases is, Utah has a substantial, if not well known, number of people who believe in taking very young wives (and multiple wives at that.) There are a number of people who practise an extreme version of the Mormon religion--and nobody in Utah seemed to consider it odd that a bearded man was walking around in unusual clothing accompanied by two women in veiled clothing (until someone recognized Elizabeth.)
I've always thought that the Smart family had an idea that their daughter may well have been abducted for that purpose, and I thought from the very beginning that there would be a connection with one of these extreme cult-type people--that their religion would play a factor in the whole case.
The other cases don't have this factor, and without the motivation to keep the young women alive as "wives," the need to dominate and subdue and then kill these women seems to be the motivation for the scum responsible.
Why are these people ever let out on parole? They can't be reformed, and they seem to wind up back in society, killing again and again.
Look at the case of Kenneth Wayne McDuff in Texas. He managed to get out of the death penalty when the Supreme Court declared it cruel and unusual, even though he had cruelly killed three teenagers in Texas. (probably due to corruption in the parole system.) He abducted and killed at least three young women after being let out of prison before he finally got the lethal injection here.
We are turning loose these vicious monsters and they prey upon our children.
I've always thought that the Smart family had an idea that their daughter may well have been abducted for that purpose, and I thought from the very beginning that there would be a connection with one of these extreme cult-type people--that their religion would play a factor in the whole case.
The other cases don't have this factor, and without the motivation to keep the young women alive as "wives," the need to dominate and subdue and then kill these women seems to be the motivation for the scum responsible.
Why are these people ever let out on parole? They can't be reformed, and they seem to wind up back in society, killing again and again.
Look at the case of Kenneth Wayne McDuff in Texas. He managed to get out of the death penalty when the Supreme Court declared it cruel and unusual, even though he had cruelly killed three teenagers in Texas. (probably due to corruption in the parole system.) He abducted and killed at least three young women after being let out of prison before he finally got the lethal injection here.
We are turning loose these vicious monsters and they prey upon our children.
dannyodie
New Member
what time of year does the river there freeze up? does it freeze entirly? or just in places? if it freezes to the point a person could walk safetly onto it,I wonder if a device similar to ground penetrating radar could be of any good at this point? Ok so lets suppose he tossed here into the river, most likely he would have just pulled over and thru her over real quick like. would he have taken the time to weight her body down with something and add that much more weight too lift? if he did not weight her down then I wonder how far she could have been swept by the river current? sorry for all the questions, I'am not at all familiar with the layout of the area geographically at all. I'am sure the police or some agency has at some point early on done a shoreline search haven't they? like all the others my prayers go out to the family and friends as they try and cope with there uncertainty of there loved one.. 
Lilybug1
New Member
Hi, I was born and raised in FL so I don't know much about water freezing over, but I wonder if when a body is in a frozen body of water if it stops the decomposition process and preserves the body. I remember recently reading about a NY man who went snowboarding in the Swiss Alps or somewhere like in Europe and disappeared. Like 15 years had gone by, due to warming, his body came to the surface (well preserved I understand with his wallet in his back pocket). Perhaps I misunderstanding a million different things about this story. But the point is that if this sicko dumped her body into the now frozen river (which presumably froze over soon after dumping her), if her body is found soon after the thawing would her body still bear the tell-tale signs of how he killed her?
johnny
New Member
Danny, how much weight does it take to submerge a body? I tried to research that in a scuba diving site but no luck. I don't think it takes a whole lot of weight initially to submerge a body but it would depend on the persons size and other factors. Obviously this is fresh water versus salt and surely as time goes by and as decomposing starts plus the water temperature and river current enter into the equation things will change. Seems like there should be a diving formula that would answer this question.
130lbs plus the added weight would be hard to manage from a river bank. Plus getting into a deep area with no one seeing him. Just hard to imagine a guy leaving the knife sheath behind, blood, etc. etc. and they only found a shoe..........I spoke to a guy who ran some river searches and he said what they did was went down stream and took a chain link fence and stretched it across the river to catch the possible body. I know the river is frozen and I don't know how deep a river and if it is even navigable.
Wish we had some pictures of the area where the shoe was found.
130lbs plus the added weight would be hard to manage from a river bank. Plus getting into a deep area with no one seeing him. Just hard to imagine a guy leaving the knife sheath behind, blood, etc. etc. and they only found a shoe..........I spoke to a guy who ran some river searches and he said what they did was went down stream and took a chain link fence and stretched it across the river to catch the possible body. I know the river is frozen and I don't know how deep a river and if it is even navigable.
Wish we had some pictures of the area where the shoe was found.
johnny
New Member
Information about the river near Crookston.
Red Lake River
The Red Lake River is one of the few canoeing rivers in northwest Minnesota, the Red Lake flows westward from Upper and Lower Red Lake to join the Red River in East Grand Forks.
Water characteristics - This is generally a smooth flowing river except below St. Hilaire to almost Crookston. In this area a chain of easily navigable boulder-field rapids and pools interrupts the Red Lake in this 17-mile stretch where the river drops 110 feet, some of these rapids can be Class II at high and low water levels.
Landscape - Marshy wilderness, flat farmland, towering eroded cliffs and steep, wooded banks characterize the Red Lake River. Above the dam at river mile 181 the river flows through marshland in the Red Lake Indian Reservation. White and yellow water lilies, wild rice and cattails thrive here.
Below the dam the river is flanked by a prairie that is at times bright with wildflowers. Trees are sparse and small on the low grassy banks. Near High Landing the trees become larger and the river meanders through farmland. Stands of willow, elm and cottonwood are interspersed with open fields. Residential development is extensive along the banks at Thief River Falls.
Below St. Hilaire the banks steepen and are heavily wooded to Red Lake Falls. High, nearly vertical, eroded cliffs and the first of many huge slump areas are encountered near Red Lake Falls. Entire hillsides have been torn away by spring floods and deposited in the river. In its lower reaches the river meanders through farmland, often screened from the river by stands of elm, willow and cottonwood.
Fish and wildlife - The river supports several species of game fish, including northern pike, walleye, and channel catfish. The Red Lake River is particularly noted for its channel catfish angling. Some of the most popular fishing areas are located below the Otter Tail Power Company dams in both Crookston and Red Lake Falls, and near the junctions of the Red Lake with the Thief, Clearwater and Black rivers.
Wildlife along the Red Lake River is varied and abundant. Wooded bottomlands provide excellent habitat for wood duck and deer. Fox, grouse, beaver, mink, muskrat, weasel, coyote, squirrel, rabbit and raccoon range through the region. Bottomlands and scattered oxbows attract mallards, blue-winged teal, great blue herons, shorebirds, owls and numerous species of songbirds. The marsh is inhabited by blackbirds, snipes, wrens, gulls, great blue herons and many ducks inhabit.
Cultural Information - Just downstream from Huot is the Old Crossing Treaty State Historical Wayside Park, where in 1863 the Ojibwe Indians ceded almost 10 million acres of land for white settlement of the Red River Valley. This also was an important crossing of the Red River Oxcart Trail, the tracks of which are still partially visible. The area now is primarily utilized for agriculture. Sugar beets are a dominate crop on the western end of the river.
Red Lake River
The Red Lake River is one of the few canoeing rivers in northwest Minnesota, the Red Lake flows westward from Upper and Lower Red Lake to join the Red River in East Grand Forks.
Water characteristics - This is generally a smooth flowing river except below St. Hilaire to almost Crookston. In this area a chain of easily navigable boulder-field rapids and pools interrupts the Red Lake in this 17-mile stretch where the river drops 110 feet, some of these rapids can be Class II at high and low water levels.
Landscape - Marshy wilderness, flat farmland, towering eroded cliffs and steep, wooded banks characterize the Red Lake River. Above the dam at river mile 181 the river flows through marshland in the Red Lake Indian Reservation. White and yellow water lilies, wild rice and cattails thrive here.
Below the dam the river is flanked by a prairie that is at times bright with wildflowers. Trees are sparse and small on the low grassy banks. Near High Landing the trees become larger and the river meanders through farmland. Stands of willow, elm and cottonwood are interspersed with open fields. Residential development is extensive along the banks at Thief River Falls.
Below St. Hilaire the banks steepen and are heavily wooded to Red Lake Falls. High, nearly vertical, eroded cliffs and the first of many huge slump areas are encountered near Red Lake Falls. Entire hillsides have been torn away by spring floods and deposited in the river. In its lower reaches the river meanders through farmland, often screened from the river by stands of elm, willow and cottonwood.
Fish and wildlife - The river supports several species of game fish, including northern pike, walleye, and channel catfish. The Red Lake River is particularly noted for its channel catfish angling. Some of the most popular fishing areas are located below the Otter Tail Power Company dams in both Crookston and Red Lake Falls, and near the junctions of the Red Lake with the Thief, Clearwater and Black rivers.
Wildlife along the Red Lake River is varied and abundant. Wooded bottomlands provide excellent habitat for wood duck and deer. Fox, grouse, beaver, mink, muskrat, weasel, coyote, squirrel, rabbit and raccoon range through the region. Bottomlands and scattered oxbows attract mallards, blue-winged teal, great blue herons, shorebirds, owls and numerous species of songbirds. The marsh is inhabited by blackbirds, snipes, wrens, gulls, great blue herons and many ducks inhabit.
Cultural Information - Just downstream from Huot is the Old Crossing Treaty State Historical Wayside Park, where in 1863 the Ojibwe Indians ceded almost 10 million acres of land for white settlement of the Red River Valley. This also was an important crossing of the Red River Oxcart Trail, the tracks of which are still partially visible. The area now is primarily utilized for agriculture. Sugar beets are a dominate crop on the western end of the river.
johnny
New Member
Red Lake River
The Red Lake River is one of the few canoeing rivers in northwest Minnesota, the Red Lake flows westward from Upper and Lower Red Lake to join the Red River in East Grand Forks.
Water characteristics - This is generally a smooth flowing river except below St. Hilaire to almost Crookston. In this area a chain of easily navigable boulder-field rapids and pools interrupts the Red Lake in this 17-mile stretch where the river drops 110 feet, some of these rapids can be Class II at high and low water levels.
Landscape - Marshy wilderness, flat farmland, towering eroded cliffs and steep, wooded banks characterize the Red Lake River. Above the dam at river mile 181 the river flows through marshland in the Red Lake Indian Reservation. White and yellow water lilies, wild rice and cattails thrive here.
Below the dam the river is flanked by a prairie that is at times bright with wildflowers. Trees are sparse and small on the low grassy banks. Near High Landing the trees become larger and the river meanders through farmland. Stands of willow, elm and cottonwood are interspersed with open fields. Residential development is extensive along the banks at Thief River Falls.
Below St. Hilaire the banks steepen and are heavily wooded to Red Lake Falls. High, nearly vertical, eroded cliffs and the first of many huge slump areas are encountered near Red Lake Falls. Entire hillsides have been torn away by spring floods and deposited in the river. In its lower reaches the river meanders through farmland, often screened from the river by stands of elm, willow and cottonwood.
Fish and wildlife - The river supports several species of game fish, including northern pike, walleye, and channel catfish. The Red Lake River is particularly noted for its channel catfish angling. Some of the most popular fishing areas are located below the Otter Tail Power Company dams in both Crookston and Red Lake Falls, and near the junctions of the Red Lake with the Thief, Clearwater and Black rivers.
Wildlife along the Red Lake River is varied and abundant. Wooded bottomlands provide excellent habitat for wood duck and deer. Fox, grouse, beaver, mink, muskrat, weasel, coyote, squirrel, rabbit and raccoon range through the region. Bottomlands and scattered oxbows attract mallards, blue-winged teal, great blue herons, shorebirds, owls and numerous species of songbirds. The marsh is inhabited by blackbirds, snipes, wrens, gulls, great blue herons and many ducks inhabit.
Cultural Information - Just downstream from Huot is the Old Crossing Treaty State Historical Wayside Park, where in 1863 the Ojibwe Indians ceded almost 10 million acres of land for white settlement of the Red River Valley. This also was an important crossing of the Red River Oxcart Trail, the tracks of which are still partially visible. The area now is primarily utilized for agriculture. Sugar beets are a dominate crop on the western end of the river.
The Red Lake River is one of the few canoeing rivers in northwest Minnesota, the Red Lake flows westward from Upper and Lower Red Lake to join the Red River in East Grand Forks.
Water characteristics - This is generally a smooth flowing river except below St. Hilaire to almost Crookston. In this area a chain of easily navigable boulder-field rapids and pools interrupts the Red Lake in this 17-mile stretch where the river drops 110 feet, some of these rapids can be Class II at high and low water levels.
Landscape - Marshy wilderness, flat farmland, towering eroded cliffs and steep, wooded banks characterize the Red Lake River. Above the dam at river mile 181 the river flows through marshland in the Red Lake Indian Reservation. White and yellow water lilies, wild rice and cattails thrive here.
Below the dam the river is flanked by a prairie that is at times bright with wildflowers. Trees are sparse and small on the low grassy banks. Near High Landing the trees become larger and the river meanders through farmland. Stands of willow, elm and cottonwood are interspersed with open fields. Residential development is extensive along the banks at Thief River Falls.
Below St. Hilaire the banks steepen and are heavily wooded to Red Lake Falls. High, nearly vertical, eroded cliffs and the first of many huge slump areas are encountered near Red Lake Falls. Entire hillsides have been torn away by spring floods and deposited in the river. In its lower reaches the river meanders through farmland, often screened from the river by stands of elm, willow and cottonwood.
Fish and wildlife - The river supports several species of game fish, including northern pike, walleye, and channel catfish. The Red Lake River is particularly noted for its channel catfish angling. Some of the most popular fishing areas are located below the Otter Tail Power Company dams in both Crookston and Red Lake Falls, and near the junctions of the Red Lake with the Thief, Clearwater and Black rivers.
Wildlife along the Red Lake River is varied and abundant. Wooded bottomlands provide excellent habitat for wood duck and deer. Fox, grouse, beaver, mink, muskrat, weasel, coyote, squirrel, rabbit and raccoon range through the region. Bottomlands and scattered oxbows attract mallards, blue-winged teal, great blue herons, shorebirds, owls and numerous species of songbirds. The marsh is inhabited by blackbirds, snipes, wrens, gulls, great blue herons and many ducks inhabit.
Cultural Information - Just downstream from Huot is the Old Crossing Treaty State Historical Wayside Park, where in 1863 the Ojibwe Indians ceded almost 10 million acres of land for white settlement of the Red River Valley. This also was an important crossing of the Red River Oxcart Trail, the tracks of which are still partially visible. The area now is primarily utilized for agriculture. Sugar beets are a dominate crop on the western end of the river.
johnny
New Member
Like the Crookston to Fisher segment, this segment is a long haul. Paddling from Fisher's Landing to East Grand Forks will be a long 11-12 hour day of continuous paddling. The river is slow and meanders in almost complete circles. You can cut the trip short by negotiating the grassy and muddy banks at the Hwy. 220 bridge about 5 river miles upstream of East Grand Forks. Or start a trip here for a short, leisurely afternoon float into town. If you are at all apprehensive about such a long trek, a small skiff with a motor is the most enjoyable mode of transport through this section. Perhaps future improvements to the trail will provide a few more access points and possibly some areas to camp for the night. There are no dams between these points and the river is almost always navigable, even during low flows. Fishing is good, as catfish become more abundant and the presence of pike, walleye, smallmouth bass, drum, and goldeye provide a diverse catch.
Red River at East Grand Forks
Flood Stage: 28 Feet
Latest Stage:15.29 Feet at 20:00 CST 01/01
[Graph Description] [Feedback] [Text Products] [Precip.]
[Impacts] [Map] [Historical Crests] [Low Water Events]
North Central
River Forecast Center
Red Lake River at Crookston
Flood Stage: 15 Feet
Latest Stage:5.09 Feet at 20:00 CST 01/01
[Graph Description] [Feedback] [Text Products] [Precip.]
[Impacts] [Map] [Historical Crests] [Low Water Events]
Red River at East Grand Forks
Flood Stage: 28 Feet
Latest Stage:15.29 Feet at 20:00 CST 01/01
[Graph Description] [Feedback] [Text Products] [Precip.]
[Impacts] [Map] [Historical Crests] [Low Water Events]
North Central
River Forecast Center
Red Lake River at Crookston
Flood Stage: 15 Feet
Latest Stage:5.09 Feet at 20:00 CST 01/01
[Graph Description] [Feedback] [Text Products] [Precip.]
[Impacts] [Map] [Historical Crests] [Low Water Events]
If the river was partially frozen, you would not necessarily have to weight a body to submerge it. If it got under the ice at any point, then finished freezing, it'll stay put until thaw, and then it could end up anywhere.
This wasn't about human remains, but still informational.
http://www.blm.gov/education/00_resources/articles/alaskas_cold_desert/classroom.html
"Nevertheless, the net effect of the arctic climate is to slow the rate of decomposition."
This wasn't about human remains, but still informational.
http://www.blm.gov/education/00_resources/articles/alaskas_cold_desert/classroom.html
"Nevertheless, the net effect of the arctic climate is to slow the rate of decomposition."
dannyodie
New Member
johnny, I myself don't know exactly the amout of weight to submerge a body, I am sure that a scuba diving formula only indicates the weight that is to be used in conjunction to the tanks on the back of the diver, I think those belts weigh about 80 pounds. you know I wonder if where the shoe was found is the only location that a body could have been tossed over the bridge? like you I would like to see a picture of that location. any one reading this, do you know if the shoe was found at the edge of the water as if it was deposited there by the river or was it on the shore line to far to have been put there by river current? maybe look upstream from that location along the shoreline. maybe somewhere there is a isolated location which one could drive to the river edge, maybe he knew of some fishing spots that were isolated.
Minnesotan here. It gets plenty cold here by Thanksgiving. A pro team was drilling holes in the ice during the search. That would have been just after Thanksgiving. I would doubt that Rodriguez would have been careful enough to weigh a body down. If he just dumped the body in the river, the guess is that it will emerge downstream in the spring. LE could probably have placed something across the river, except they had no clue as to where to look earlier. By that time a body could have been anywhere.
Imon128
Former Member
I hope that the SOB who did this to this young gal gets caught and justice will get served. Her cellphone use was a clue, in a way, but I only wish she'd have been able to give more info to her boyfriend. Obviously, the fiend knew how to attack one using a cellphone. You'd think that would be a real safeguard against attacks. It surely beats nothing, though. There was that one chance she might have been able to give some more info. My biggest hope is that she'll come home like Elizabeth Smart...alive.
I think we're too dependent on the idea that a cell phone can save you. Once attacked, a cell phone would be difficult to use. There was one poster that set her phone to 91, just needed to press the last 1. That might work. But, as in Dru's case, who would have thought of being attacked at a shopping mall at 5:00 p.m.? Who would bother to set a phone just walking to your car as Dru did? What if the culprit just threw the phone out a window? Would you be saved? The whistle that has been mentioned seems a better idea.
Imon128
Former Member
Trino said:
I agree about relying on the cell phone, after this case. It is a good feature to have the 91/911 auto feature on it, but does that only give location? If that's all, that alone is a good thing, but perhaps there could be some expediancy to being able to leave a message once that feature is used. I'm not very well educated in that feature, but with all the new technology, you'd think that there would be some way for a person to speak quickly to LE in this instance. I feel that in the future, this will be worked out, too, but unfortunately for this young lady, all that seemed to be an aside. I'm still praying that Dru will come home, as Elizabeth Smart did, but I'm not all that optimistic.
johnny
New Member
I noticed in the river guide report that this section of river is only about five feet deep at Crookston and increases to around fifteen feet in Grand Forks. Also part of this stretch of river has class II rapids and the rest moves very slow and would take about twelve hours to navigate by canoe.
Also remember the speaker wire found in his car and in the garage at his mothers home.
Also remember the speaker wire found in his car and in the garage at his mothers home.
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