NE - 4 Teenage Girls Die in Fiery Single Vehicle Automobile Crash, 5th Burned, Gretna, 17 June 2019

[al66pine]

"Davis said initial reports said the girls attended a party at 225th and Harrison. He said their cellphones proved they were not there. Friends said the girls were not there either."
[Sheriff Jeff Davis/Sarpy County]

^ Without more info/evidence, imo, this ^ statement only proves the girls' cellphones were not at the party.
Were the friends, who denied the girls' presence at party, there at the party the entire time and could see everyone come & go? If so, backs up the sheriff's statement. If not, well, maybe more info from other sources will prove one way or the other.

*. 'We are devastated:' Mother of driver in deadly crash that killed four teens heartbroken ketv.com, pub July 16

 

[MyBelle]

Snipped from your previous posts:

What's wrong with scare tactics? Cops use scare tactics, including lying, with adults.
The entire point of hiring a lawyer for a minor is because cops can and do lie.

ITA. Holding teens and parents accountable has been the norm in NE for decades.

You seem to think it's fine for cops to lie and use scare tactics on one hand, yet you'd hire a lawyer because cops can and do lie?
I'm confused.

If holding teens accountable is the norm in NE, then why not just skip the lawyer and send the teen in the police station to own up? As I stated, The lawyers job is to find a loophole so said teen would not be held accountable.
Again, I am confused.

I never said the mother is a suspect. I have watched several news broadcasts that stated "anyone that withholds information or doesn't come forward can be charged with obstruction." The DA said that. She's the one that said the mother can be held responsible for obstruction of justice. That's not true.
The mother (and many other parents) told their kids not to speak to the cops. There is nothing legally wrong with that.


Snipped:
Juveniles are prosecuted as adults in Nebraska and I doubt this case will be any different.

In felony cases yes, but it depends on the juveniles age.
This will be a felony charge,(if there are charges) because the result was death and serious bodily injury, but we are not sure if a minor(s) were involved yet, or not.

BBM. That's not what I said.

The point of hiring a lawyer in this case is to protect the rights of the daughter who is a WITNESS. An attorney knows what LE questions she should and should not answer. LE can and do interview juvenile witnesses. If a parent totally prevents the interview, that's obstruction of the officer trying to do his job.

JMO


Nebraska Legislature

 

[al66pine]

NE Crime of Obstruction of Justice, Is Silence Enough?

Post 60 stated: "The surviving teen can be prosecuted for obstruction of justice."
I would agree w ^ if we could interp "hinder" and "obstruction of justice" in everyday, conversational English, instead of NE statutory language and NE SupCt ruling language.

Post 61 by Rocky1 responded that this teen could assert her 5th Amendment right to silence and refuse to answer LE's questions. (my paraphrasing).

From info below, I'm agreeing w Rocky1: Teen maintaining silence is not sufficient for ob/justice charge.
NE law requires a physical act to hinder LE, thus obstructing justice, a crim offense.

But we do not know if teen's other actions could form the elements of another criminal charge. Hypothetically only, no basis in known fact: What if she supplied alcohol to driver? Or if at crash scene, she discarded from the car a piece of evidence? Not implying she did.

So from a legal standpoint of protecting her child, regardless of the teens actions, I understand hiring an atty for her.
_______________________________________________________
NE statute. "28-906. Obstructing a peace officer; penalty.
(1) A person commits the offense of obstructing a peace officer, when, by using or threatening to use violence, force, physical interference, or obstacle, he or she intentionally obstructs, impairs, or hinders (a) the enforcement of the penal law ... by a peace officer ... " <<<bbm <sbm
^ Nebraska Legislature
^ State v. Yeutter, 252 Neb. 857, 566 N.W.2d 387 (1997).

NE Supreme Court Rulings
"... The mere verbal refusal to provide information to an officer does not constitute an obstacle to the enforcement of the penal laws as contemplated by this section. There must be some sort of physical act in order for a violation of this statute to occur..." <<<bbm <sbm
^ State v. Yeutter
^ State v. Yeutter, 252 Neb. 857, 566 N.W.2d 387 (1997).

"The act of running away from an officer does obstruct, impair, or hinder the officer's efforts to preserve the peace."<<<bbm
^ In Re Interest of Richter
^ In re Interest of Richter, 226 Neb. 874, 415 N.W.2d 476 (1987). (415 N.W.2d 476 )

 

[TristanP]

I cannot locate it now but I know I saw an article about one of the victim's moms speaking out for this code of silence to end. I do remember which parent but will not name them as I don't have documentation. While looking for it I ran across this article I'd not seen previously:

'We are devastated:' Mother of driver in deadly crash that killed four teens heartbroken

Near the end there is an interesting comment. None of the girls cellphones indicated they had been at the party alluded to.

I’m sure the cell phones do indicate they weren’t at the party, otherwise LE would be saying that there was no activity on any of the girls’ phones for a large chunk of time that evening, and I feel safe saying there’s simply no way all five of those girls went to a party with no cell phones.

This is making more sense to me now. They weren’t at the party they were reportedly at, which means there would clearly be no reason to hold any adults or teens at the party responsible. So they’re probably looking for an individual who bought the girls alcohol, and the lone survivor is the only one who can give LE that info, and she’s not gonna be a “snitch”. I mean, come in, if she tells who got her the alcohol this time, there won’t be anyone to buy her alcohol in the future!

That was partly sarcasm. But partly anger. I don’t know. Sigh.

It’s entirely possible they hung out near a liquor store and asked some guy going in to buy some for them. That person may not have any idea what happened later, or if they do, they’re not coming forward because of what will happen if they do.

They said the driver’s BAC was .09 which isn’t actually all that high. Barely above the legal limit for adults. So she wasn’t blackout drunk. Just drunk enough to make a couple of really, really bad decisions that other people now have to live forever with the consequences of. And four people that didn’t get to live at all.

I hope so much that their friends really will learn a lesson from this.

 

[al66pine]

...They weren’t at the party they were reportedly at, which means there would clearly be no reason to hold any adults or teens at the party responsible. So they’re probably looking for an individual who bought the girls alcohol, and the lone survivor is the only one who can give LE that info, and she’s not gonna be a “snitch”....

sbm bbm
@TristanP Thanks for your post. [headslaps self, did not think of it]
^ Yes, a good possible alternative to a parent supplying.
Was it - cute girls hanging out in liquor store parking lot, waiting to flirt & bait young man (21 y/o+) to take their $$$ into store to buy alcohol for them? At total stranger? Or ....?

 

[bears10]

sbm bbm
@TristanP Thanks for your post. [headslaps self, did not think of it]
^ Yes, a good possible alternative to a parent supplying.
Was it - cute girls hanging out in liquor store parking lot, waiting to flirt & bait young man (21 y/o+) to take their $$$ into store to buy alcohol for them? At total stranger? Or ....?

Or one of their friends who has a fake ID.

 

[Snick1946]

From what I have read, video surveillance has them spending much of that evening in the school parking lot. Most drove separately and apparently left together. There were pics in the papers of the parked cars of some of the girls covered with flowers. Where did they go from the school? They were supposed to be doing a sleepover at one of their homes, we don't know who. I think the key to where they got the booze is where they went after leaving the school..unless it came from one of the girls who brought it to the meetup.

 

[Rocky1]

"Davis said initial reports said the girls attended a party at 225th and Harrison. He said their cellphones proved they were not there. Friends said the girls were not there either."
[Sheriff Jeff Davis/Sarpy County]

^ Without more info/evidence, imo, this ^ statement only proves the girls' cellphones were not at the party.
Were the friends, who denied the girls' presence at party, there at the party the entire time and could see everyone come & go? If so, backs up the sheriff's statement. If not, well, maybe more info from other sources will prove one way or the other.

*. 'We are devastated:' Mother of driver in deadly crash that killed four teens heartbroken ketv.com, pub July 16

@ timestamp 1:47 ...They were not at a party. We had Deputies out, there was no alcohol and the parents were very cooperative."
Gretna crash update press conference

 

[Rocky1]

NE Crime of Obstruction of Justice, Is Silence Enough?

Post 60 stated: "The surviving teen can be prosecuted for obstruction of justice."
I would agree w ^ if we could interp "hinder" and "obstruction of justice" in everyday, conversational English, instead of NE statutory language and NE SupCt ruling language.

Post 61 by Rocky1 responded that this teen could assert her 5th Amendment right to silence and refuse to answer LE's questions. (my paraphrasing).

From info below, I'm agreeing w Rocky1: Teen maintaining silence is not sufficient for ob/justice charge.
NE law requires a physical act to hinder LE, thus obstructing justice, a crim offense.

But we do not know if teen's other actions could form the elements of another criminal charge. Hypothetically only, no basis in known fact: What if she supplied alcohol to driver? Or if at crash scene, she discarded from the car a piece of evidence? Not implying she did.

So from a legal standpoint of protecting her child, regardless of the teens actions, I understand hiring an atty for her.
_______________________________________________________
NE statute. "28-906. Obstructing a peace officer; penalty.
(1) A person commits the offense of obstructing a peace officer, when, by using or threatening to use violence, force, physical interference, or obstacle, he or she intentionally obstructs, impairs, or hinders (a) the enforcement of the penal law ... by a peace officer ... " <<<bbm <sbm
^ Nebraska Legislature
^ State v. Yeutter, 252 Neb. 857, 566 N.W.2d 387 (1997).

NE Supreme Court Rulings
"... The mere verbal refusal to provide information to an officer does not constitute an obstacle to the enforcement of the penal laws as contemplated by this section. There must be some sort of physical act in order for a violation of this statute to occur..." <<<bbm <sbm
^ State v. Yeutter
^ State v. Yeutter, 252 Neb. 857, 566 N.W.2d 387 (1997).

"The act of running away from an officer does obstruct, impair, or hinder the officer's efforts to preserve the peace."<<<bbm
^ In Re Interest of Richter
^ In re Interest of Richter, 226 Neb. 874, 415 N.W.2d 476 (1987). (415 N.W.2d 476 )

All good.
The statute you posted is "Obstructing A Police Officer."

Read this. "Obstructing A Government Operation."
2006 Nebraska Revised Statutes - § 28-901 — Obstructing government operations; penalty.
Snipped:

• 
  The offense must consist of physical interference OR some unlawful act. State v. Douglas, 217 Neb. 199, 349 N.W.2d 870 (1984).

This does not restrict the act to physical interference.
If you lie to LE during an investigation in order to cover up something, that can be "Obstruction Of Justice."
For example....
"There's no way Johnny gave those girls alcohol, we were in Lincoln all night," but they have video of Johnny walking into the liquor store at 8 pm in Gretna.
That's Obstruction.
If you lie to any federal investigator in any way during a federal investigation, that's Obstruction.
For example, if you say to a member of congress.....
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinsky."
That's Obstruction.
Keeping your mouth shut is not obstruction in this case.
There are a few exceptions in some states, like for example a child is being sexually abused, or someone has been severely injured in a hospital, but that doesn't apply here.

 

[Rocky1]

BBM. That's not what I said.

The point of hiring a lawyer in this case is to protect the rights of the daughter who is a WITNESS. An attorney knows what LE questions she should and should not answer. LE can and do interview juvenile witnesses. If a parent totally prevents the interview, that's obstruction of the officer trying to do his job.

JMO


Nebraska Legislature

Snipped:
If a parent totally prevents the interview, that's obstruction of the officer trying to do his job.


I disagree. In fact, If a cop knocks at the door of a juvenile witness, and the parent answers, that parent can slam the door in the cops face and walk away.
Rude, but legal.
Let me ask you this.
According to LE, they think this is an important case to solve, "No we are not going to just let it go .... we have an obligation to solve this case so this doesn't happen again in six months, a the families want answers, etc."
Why is it that all these parents and kids that are refusing to talk to the cops are not in jail for obstruction? Would the cops be doing their job if they didn't enforce the law?

 

[Rocky1]

Or one of their friends who has a fake ID.

If this is the case, add another charge. It's illegal to have a fake ID in your posession.
In some states it's a felony if the ID is a government fake ID, like for example a drivers license or a license to carry a firearm. I'm not sure if that applies in Nebraska.

 

[Rocky1]

From what I have read, video surveillance has them spending much of that evening in the school parking lot. Most drove separately and apparently left together. There were pics in the papers of the parked cars of some of the girls covered with flowers. Where did they go from the school? They were supposed to be doing a sleepover at one of their homes, we don't know who. I think the key to where they got the booze is where they went after leaving the school..unless it came from one of the girls who brought it to the meetup.

Do you think from the video surveillance they can tell of the girls were drinking at the school? I know they said that the video was not clear enough, but what about the timeline?
If they left the school at say 10.30, and they crashed at 11.00 with a BAC of .09, would it be fair to say they were?
It will be interesting if this case does go to court. I'd love to see that video surveillance.
I'm sure that the school will be open to a law suit if they were, and a large one at that. Not that I am saying the cops would develop a case of bad eyesight. I do think that the video should be send to forensic specialists to be analyzed.
Interesting. If they were drinking at the school, does anyone think that the school should be held accountable?

 

[al66pine]

@ timestamp 1:47 ...They were not at a party. We had Deputies out, there was no alcohol and the parents were very cooperative."
Gretna crash update press conference

@Rocky1 Thanks for your post and esp the timestamp to guide us to right spot.
I hadnt seen that vid. Okay, girls were not at that party. Thanks for info.

 

[MyBelle]

Snipped:
If a parent totally prevents the interview, that's obstruction of the officer trying to do his job.


I disagree. In fact, If a cop knocks at the door of a juvenile witness, and the parent answers, that parent can slam the door in the cops face and walk away.
Rude, but legal.
Let me ask you this.
According to LE, they think this is an important case to solve, "No we are not going to just let it go .... we have an obligation to solve this case so this doesn't happen again in six months, a the families want answers, etc."
Why is it that all these parents and kids that are refusing to talk to the cops are not in jail for obstruction? Would the cops be doing their job if they didn't enforce the law?

That's your opinion, not fact. I stick by my opinion because it is a known fact the parents hired an attorney for their minor child.

I've seen no evidence whatsoever in this case that LE has not spoken to the child in the presence of her attorney.

I'll let the county attorney decide what charges to file.

JMO

 

[Rocky1]

Minors at the Time"?
"Deputies said they have two persons of interest they want to talk to regarding the crash. Officials said those individuals were “minors at the time” during a Wednesday morning news conference." *

LE wants to talk to two specific individuals, who were minors June 18 (crash date?).
Is one of the two of age as of July 26? Are both now of age as of July 26?
So did one have a birthday btwn June 18 & July 26? Or both?

Maybe I'm interp'ing this incorrectly. Other interps, pls? Thx in adv.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
*. Reward grows for information about alcohol in Gretna crash
pub July 26

If you listen to the full press conference update (Lower video) @ Time stamp 16.00, the investigator is asked if the two "suspects" are juveniles. He states "They are." He also says in the video that they may know where the alcohol came from, which leads me to believe they may not be the source, but may know who is.
I know he later on is asked the same question again and he states they were minors at the time.

Authorities looking for tips on crash that killed four Gretna teens

 

[Rocky1]

That's your opinion, not fact. I stick by my opinion because it is a known fact the parents hired an attorney for their minor child.

I've seen no evidence whatsoever in this case that LE has not spoken to the child in the presence of her attorney.

I'll let the county attorney decide what charges to file.

JMO

I know the parents hired an attorney.
The question is whether or not a parent/witness can prevent the interview. The answer is yes.
From your previous post.

Snipped:
If a parent totally prevents the interview, that's obstruction of the officer trying to do his job.

That's not true.
Here's the facts.

Snipped from Al66pine's above post #103:
NE Supreme Court Rulings
"... The mere verbal refusal to provide information to an officer does not constitute an obstacle to the enforcement of the penal laws as contemplated by this section.

Scroll down to the lower video on the link below....
[email protected]. The captain is asked if anything legally can be done to make the parents/kids talk.
His response "No, the constitution protects them."

This is not my opinion, this is fact.

Snipped from your post:
I've seen no evidence whatsoever in this case that LE has not spoken to the child in the presence of her attorney.

Here's the evidence.
Again, refer to this same link, bottom video.
[email protected]. When asked if the lone survivor is helping with the investigation, the Captain responds with " At this point she has made no statement to us. She has retained an attorney and we have had no communication with her."
Authorities looking for tips on crash that killed four Gretna teens

If you watch the top video, same link....
Timestamp@ 1.23 "The lone survivor has hired an attorney, and has stayed silent."

This is my opinion. Not fact, no evidence. If the lone survivor/witness had talked to the police, my guess is they wouldn't be asking people to come forward. I believe she knows who supplied the alcohol.

 

[Rocky1]

I believe that these girls were drinking in the high school parking lot and not someplace else.
Although LE claims they could not see anything in their hand in the video, I believe they think that too. Watch this video clip.
[email protected]....
"We believe that most of the evening they were at the high school parking lot. They had left there, they were going to take a drive, and then were going to one of the young ladies house to spend the night."
Gretna crash update press conference

 

[MyBelle]

I know the parents hired an attorney.
The question is whether or not a parent/witness can prevent the interview. The answer is yes.
From your previous post.

Snipped:
If a parent totally prevents the interview, that's obstruction of the officer trying to do his job.

That's not true.
Here's the facts.

Snipped from Al66pine's above post #103:
NE Supreme Court Rulings
"... The mere verbal refusal to provide information to an officer does not constitute an obstacle to the enforcement of the penal laws as contemplated by this section.

Scroll down to the lower video on the link below....
[email protected]. The captain is asked if anything legally can be done to make the parents/kids talk.
His response "No, the constitution protects them."

This is not my opinion, this is fact.

Snipped from your post:
I've seen no evidence whatsoever in this case that LE has not spoken to the child in the presence of her attorney.

Here's the evidence.
Again, refer to this same link, bottom video.
[email protected]. When asked if the lone survivor is helping with the investigation, the Captain responds with " At this point she has made no statement to us. She has retained an attorney and we have had no communication with her."
Authorities looking for tips on crash that killed four Gretna teens

If you watch the top video, same link....
Timestamp@ 1.23 "The lone survivor has hired an attorney, and has stayed silent."

This is my opinion. Not fact, no evidence. If the lone survivor/witness had talked to the police, my guess is they wouldn't be asking people to come forward. I believe she knows who supplied the alcohol.

BBM. That news article is a week old. I will continue to hold the opinion the victim has now spoken with investigators who are investigating a serious crime. LE came up with the names of two persons of interest without her help and I applaud those who have helped LE.

As I previously stated, I will defer to the County attorney as to what charges are filed.

JMO

 

[Rocky1]

BBM. That news article is a week old. I will continue to hold the opinion the victim has now spoken with investigators who are investigating a serious crime. LE came up with the names of two persons of interest without her help and I applaud those who have helped LE.

As I previously stated, I will defer to the County attorney as to what charges are filed.

JMO

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion.
Let me ask you this.
What are you basing your opinion on?
I have showed you facts and evidence that she hasn't talked to LE. I have showed LE themselves stating there is no obstruction of justice, because nobody has to talk to the cops.
What has changed to make you think she has talked to the cops?

Snipped from your post.
I stick by my opinion because it is a known fact the parents hired an attorney for their minor child.

One reason that LE said she hasn't talked was because they did hire an attorney and the attorney did what any attorney would/should do.... Told her to keep her mouth shut.
Any communication from this point forward will be handled through her attorney, and he's not about to incriminate her.
Unless she's arrested, she won't be talking to the cops.


Snipped:
LE came up with the names of two persons of interest without her help and I applaud those who have helped LE.

LE said the information they received was all hearsay.
I'm sure the rumors are circulating, and I'm sure there are many that want to help LE , but LE said they needed more, because there's no evidence as of yet.
They also said that the two juveniles "may" know who gave the girls alcohol. Those juveniles have hired attorneys as well.

Snipped:
As I previously stated, I will defer to the County attorney as to what charges are filed.

And the County Attorney isn't about to waste her, the courts time, and taxpayers money on a case she can't win.
That's why nobody has been arrested and charged with obstruction.

 

[MyBelle]

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion.
Let me ask you this.
What are you basing your opinion on?
I have showed you facts and evidence that she hasn't talked to LE. I have showed LE themselves stating there is no obstruction of justice, because nobody has to talk to the cops.
What has changed to make you think she has talked to the cops?

Snipped from your post.
I stick by my opinion because it is a known fact the parents hired an attorney for their minor child.

One reason that LE said she hasn't talked was because they did hire an attorney and the attorney did what any attorney would/should do.... Told her to keep her mouth shut.
Any communication from this point forward will be handled through her attorney, and he's not about to incriminate her.
Unless she's arrested, she won't be talking to the cops.


Snipped:
LE came up with the names of two persons of interest without her help and I applaud those who have helped LE.

Snipped:
As I previously stated, I will defer to the County attorney as to what charges are filed.

And the County Attorney isn't about to waste her, the courts time, and taxpayers money on a case she can't win.
That's why nobody has been arrested and charged with obstruction.

BBM. I think she's talked to the cops because they are no longer asking the public for help. She's not a suspect, she is a victim and I have no doubt she has been severely traumatized by the loss of her four good friends.

You linked an article that is more than a week old. I seriously doubt the attorney the family hired told her not to talk or cooperate with LE. The Elkhorn South investigation took more than a month to solve and make arrests. The store clerk who sold the alcohol to minors in that case is in prison for the next year.

You keep posting your opinion as fact. Where are links to your claim LE said the POI's are based on hearsay and they have lawyered up? Just because a POI has lawyered up doesn't mean they won't be arrested.

Here's a fact: the Sarpy County attorney is a male, Lee Polikov. He is also the former sheriff and if he makes an arrest, I'm confident he'll have no trouble winning the case. Omaha is a large metro area but losing five teens in the same way in under a year is a pretty serious public safety issue.

JMO
County Attorney | Sarpy County
Clerk, 2 minors arrested connected to Elkhorn student's deadly crash