For me the problem is the clerk first posted he saw Chance in comments for a podcast covering Chances case. All of the info on where Chance lived, how it was said he took walks to cool off, all of this was public knowledge. Maybe this clerk did check Chance out when buying chew and a drink but from what I know I would say this was not Chance. Chance was not walking to cool off like this Clerk said, Chance was walking to leave Gering and wanted a ride to get back to his home. Also Chance had consumed a ton of beer. Everyone at the golf course confirmed how intoxicated Chance and others were. You don't sober up in an hour after you are so drunk someone says you are a nine from being a ten on being the worst for intoxication. The clerk said this man he thought was Chance was not drunk at all. I have a list of things that tell me this most likely was not Chance but no way for me to be positive on this. I think for now the things we need to figure out is what killed Chance and why would he be in the badlands on the North side of the Monument on a very stormy night in Scottsbluff? Makes zero sense.
NE NE - Chance Englebert, 25, Gering, 6 July 2019 (new father) #2
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The reason given for Baylee asking for the death certificate is because she was panicking over how she was going to pay bills and take care of their son. She was not on the bank account and had planned to start nursing school and was not working. She had been told in order to obtain any financial help she would need his death certificate so she inquired about getting it. Seems she did not understand how all of this worked when your husband goes missing and you feel the only way he would not have returned is he lost his life. For me this makes sense and does not show me she was guilty of anything when asking Law Enforcement about this.
Chances phone was used and sent out this text to Katy at 9:08 pm when it was pouring rain. Rain/water can cause a cell phone to not function properly. Very likely water on the screen or it getting wet in his jean pocket while out in a horrible storm is what caused this unusual text and his phone to die shortly after this text was sent. It is puzzling and my biggest question is why would he use his phone in pouring rain so I thought surely he was under some kind of protection but had been walking in this storm and his phone got soaked while in his jean pocket. There are a few different reasons that could make sense for this unusual text sending and his phone having catastrophic damage shortly after. Sorry, this did not show the quote I was replying to. I can try and fix this to show the correct quote. I do think this does take you to the quote but I will post it too. "
Shortly after, Englebert stopped replying to texts and phone calls, with his final text message being a random selection of numbers and emojis. His mother, Dawn, said the message was particularly odd because Englebert never used emojis.
She told Cowboy State Daily that she believed someone else was using his phone."
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I think you misread my post. I never said I disliked her. I have no reason here or there to like or dislike her. That's just not how I "do" cases. I don't do the team this or team that. I go on facts known, I listen to people and do form opinions (be they right or wrong) based on what I hear. I also realize that my gut feels are sometimes on and sometimes off.
In my opinion, given my life experience and what I have gleaned over the years following cases, it is just mind-blowing for anyone of any education level or life experience level to ask for an actual death certificate for a spouse who walked off, is considered missing and is being searched for. Mind Blowing.
I'm just not buying that being young, scared, angry makes you bold and ask for a death certificate for a person that hasn't been found after a day or two of being missing. Benefits. Benefits made her ask and benefits were what her main concern was.
The officials were also concerned about this request coming so early at the time.
Yes, I remember those reasons being given. Still not resonating with me. It's a death certificate. It's a final thing. That means you want them to say he is dead and you have given up searching for him. It's a pretty simple idea that you only get one issued if the person is dead.
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I think the wife requesting a death certificate so soon after Chance's disappearance was certainly concerning. It would be the last thing on most peoples minds. It's most definitely concerning.
Amateur opinion and speculation only
Someone could fall off the top. Or be dumped off, I guess. The following are just facts, I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything...
The park, hiking trail, and entrance to the road is closed at sundown, so no one driving up there the night Chance went missing.
The lightning was likely gone by the time Chance could/would have walked there. He was last on camera a mile away at 10 pm.
If Chance walked into the park that night, (from the back side), and if for some reason he decided to go to the top of the bluffs, the chances of him locoating and making it up the hiking trail in the darkness, after a torrential rain, with no light (his phone stopped prior to 10pm) are slim. It's steep enough that marathon athletes use it to train on. (Like, it's really annoying when you're gasping with each little step, and this guy charges past you running full speed, and before you drag yourself much farther towards the top, he's been there and breezes past on the way down. Don't ask how I know.)
It appears the skeletal remains were found on the side of the extreme northern bluff, and l'm not sure area above it accessible by trail.
I understand your thoughts on this, hard to beleive she would not understand the meaning and reason for issuing a death certificate. But Baylee asked for this death certificate during a meeting the Police and family members were at right in front of everyone there. Crazy thing to do if you knew he was dead and how he died.
I have never been to the Scottsbluff Monument but am talking with someone who has been out to the place these remains were found. A lot of high brush in July, rocky and high ground level, a canal from the path he most likely would have been on to get to this area. We are going to check and see if this canal would have been full of water on July 6 of 2019. It would be a treacherous place to navigate along with rattle snakes and cats, plus the storm.
I've had enough time now to think about this after pretty much being in shock because of where he was found. We have came to the conclusion Chance did know his wife was out driving around trying to find him. We also know he and his relatives had consumed a lot of alcohol that day. Could be he did not want her to find him, knew this area by the Monument would be off of the road and a place to hide and not be found. He was walking well enough to have walked miles after leaving her Grandparents home in Gering so thinking he could maneuver this rocky terrain. Rattlesnake bite or hypothermia may be the reason for his death. Neither will show in the checking of his bones but if nothing is found to show foul play did happen I would think they will go with a rattle snake bite or hypothermia for cause of death. His thinking may have been a little off, he was upset and mad so seems he may have made some decisions that could have caused a horrible accident to have taken place. It may take months for them to complete the checking of his skeletal remains, it did for Patterson-Black when his arm bone was found by Melbeta Nebraska. Hopefully more skeletal remains and not being found in water will speed up this process. I want to add we don't know if the body had been buried. Someone has said partially buried but this does not tell us enough and we do not know the source of this information. But buried would most likely mean foul play , maybe how deep would factor into if someone buried him or mother nature did. Hypothermia can happen in July in a place like Ne since very cold rain and a pouring rain did take place. Also consuming of alcohol can play a part in a person suffering from hypothermia.
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I do wonder about his level of intoxication. But it is almost impossible to know for sure. What led him to the side of the monument is my real question. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. He told his friend on the phone he was headed to Torrington. But somehow that plan changed or he was picked up by someone. Did he become suicidal after the argument with her family and her, and the booze pushed him?
We will have to wait to get info about what is found. We don't know for sure this is his body, but given what Chance's family has shared about what they were told, I am guess it is. I am assuming that items found with the body were enough to make LE think it is him. Is his phone there? It might be able to fill in some clues. Will a cause of death be able to be determined? We will see.
We will have to wait to get info about what is found. We don't know for sure this is his body, but given what Chance's family has shared about what they were told, I am guess it is. I am assuming that items found with the body were enough to make LE think it is him. Is his phone there? It might be able to fill in some clues. Will a cause of death be able to be determined? We will see.
A couple of thoughts regarding intoxication level and state of mind:
While I realize some disregard the witness, I have to include the convenience store clerk's encounter with Chance when thinking about those situations. I believe this person because they have no reason to lie. Also, I'm factoring in the fact that he said he had a fight with his wife but was heading home. We have to wonder which home he meant but in that context, my mind goes to "back home to the wife" but it really could have meant the opposite.
JMO
While I realize some disregard the witness, I have to include the convenience store clerk's encounter with Chance when thinking about those situations. I believe this person because they have no reason to lie. Also, I'm factoring in the fact that he said he had a fight with his wife but was heading home. We have to wonder which home he meant but in that context, my mind goes to "back home to the wife" but it really could have meant the opposite.
JMO
The wife said that Chance had no fight or argument with her. It seems you would be shocked at how many people gave info saying they knew things about Chances disappearance and even were involved but it ended up a lie. It happens.
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The following is what Bailey told a podcast back in 2019.
Marissa: When we spoke to Bailey, we asked her to walk us through the events of the day Chance disappeared. This is what she had to say.
Bailey: We were just down visiting our family, and the guys all decided that they wanted to go golfing. So him, my brother-in-law, and my dad, they went down to Bear Golf Course and drank a lot, and golfed a lot, and I don’t know. Ha… had fun. Ha… he called me, and we were supposed to meet some friends for dinner that night, and he was in a super good mood, so I drove out there. I got the baby out of the car, and I started walking over to where everyone was sitting. And he stood up and said, “Get the f*ck back in the car. We’re leaving.” So, I thought that was really weird. So I was kinda looking at everyone, and they’re looking at me. And everyone is just super confused. We left and I canceled plans with my friends, and he had misunderstood something that somebody had said about him getting—about the mine shutting down. Cause in Nebraska, the minimum wage, I mean… it’s hard to make really good money in Nebraska. Even if you’re super skilled, you’re not going to be paid worth a sh*t compared to what you are in Wyoming. And, so they made a comment about “at least he wasn’t making minimum wage “. By Nebraska standards, he was making good money, and he just took it the wrong way. So he was upset about that, and he really wanted to go home. And, he had been drinking just enough that there was no talking any sort of sense into him. So, I just kinda went with it and was like okay cool, we’ll go home. So I drove to my grandparent’s in Gering, Nebraska, where we had been staying, and I went in to pack my bag. We pulled into the driveway, and he said, “No, I said I wanted to go home.” And I was like, “Yeah, just hold on. I’m gonna go grab our bags and we’ll leave. Well, he took off walking. And I ran the baby inside, and took him out of his car seat, handed him to my grandma, and ran back outside. And I started driving around looking for him. Several phone calls later, the rainstorm hit and I just never got him found.
Post in thread 'NE - Chance Englebert, 25, Gering, 6 July 2019 (new father)'
NE - NE - Chance Englebert, 25, Gering, 6 July 2019 (new father)
Yeah, there were lots of contradictions in her story. Too many for me to be comfortable with and it was all debated here. I listened to that a few times in addition to reading the entire transcript. I don't know who did what or who knows what, but I could never let go of my doubts.
As far as people coming forward with information about his disappearance that ended up being lies, I think it is important to clarify that those untrue accounts never make it into the media and therefore do not get shared here on WS. The ones that do, have been vetted to a large enough degree that they have been reported by an accepted media source or confirmed by LE, otherwise they aren't able to be discussed here. The convenience store clerk's account was believable enough that it must have passed the test somewhere down the line.
Hopefully, his post-mortem will reveal enough about how he died and how he came to be in the location to help understand his disappearance and subsequent death.
As far as people coming forward with information about his disappearance that ended up being lies, I think it is important to clarify that those untrue accounts never make it into the media and therefore do not get shared here on WS. The ones that do, have been vetted to a large enough degree that they have been reported by an accepted media source or confirmed by LE, otherwise they aren't able to be discussed here. The convenience store clerk's account was believable enough that it must have passed the test somewhere down the line.
Hopefully, his post-mortem will reveal enough about how he died and how he came to be in the location to help understand his disappearance and subsequent death.
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