Toltec. You are not reading it right. I do NOT believe she was sodomized. It was UK who put that out. Nice to see you again.
Nedra & Patsy's sisters
- Thread starter Jay78
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Toltec. You are not reading it right. I do NOT believe she was sodomized. It was UK who put that out. Nice to see you again.
UK, I bet if you checked the underwear of say 10 children at the age of 5 or 6 at the end of the day, you would find THAT THEY HAVE SOILED UNDERWEAR. Jon Benet's soiling of her underwear could also have been the result of NOT BEING TAUGHT PROPERLY, which is exactly what happened when Nedra came to take care of the children when Patsy was in the hospital. She came back home and JonBenet was not TOILET TRAINED at all.
She had an ongoing rash or infection and Patsy verbalized that to her friend that she was concerned about her underwear being damp and therefore it was impossible to get rid of it. Linda Hoffman-Paugh said there were daily arguments coming from the bathroom from Patsy and JonBenet.
UK, I can see your argument, but if you are going to present it, please at least present the other side. When the above is presented, it gives pause for thought that she most likely WAS NOT SODOMIZED. Not to mention that there is no sign of sodomy going on.
Solace,
When speculating it is usually upon the balance of probabilities that most people will decide if something occurred or not.
The case you present for her not being sodomised would apply to the normal household, but we already know that the Ramsey household was atypical, and in fact dysfunctional, adding in JonBenet's pageant activity, her prior abuse, any current abuse, her soiled underwear then take on a different color, this is not conclusive, but swings the balance towards the theory that JonBenet was being actively abused.
Sodomy is only an explanation for some of the evidence, the same evidence can also support other forms of abuse, and in light of the autopsy report regarding chronic sexual activity, the other side of the argument which is difficult to escape is that JonBenet was the victim of long term sexual abuse.
Whilst it is not beyond the realms of possibility for JonBenet to have been killed as the result of some toileting incident, this as a motive pales into insignificance when placed beside that of a sexual assault, particularly when the forensic evidence supports the latter and contradicts the former!
.
There has been no evidence of her being sodomized at all. Meyer never said anything to anyone about her being sodomized. He believed there was prior sexual abuse and went so far as to keep that off the record - I wonder why he did that. Why did he not put "evidence of prior sexual abuse". I think because he was not sure - it was his "professional" opinion. If she had been sodomized, given her size, there would have been some evidence of it, somewhere at some time. There is none. It would have arisen in the autopsy that there was evidence of it. This is a tiny child and if she had been sodomized, Meyer would have seen it and reacted to it.
As far as
Solace,
I agree, but that there was no evidence of sodomy that night does not rule it out on prior occassions.
JonBenet's genital condition is direct evidence of prior sexual abuse, Coroner Meyer's opinion would have been aired at any trial, I reckon the autopsy report was written to minimise information, we know that JonBenet's killer had staged her death, this would not have been lost on Coroner Meyer, so you can bet your bottom dollar, in private they will have discussed this along with any possible sexual abuse, but simply released a minimal autopsy report, from memory details were redacted from an inititial release, but later amended by a judge?
.
Yes, but there is no evidence of anyone speaking about sodomy. She is tiny UK, there would have been physical evidence.
Solace,
Sure but an absence of evidence does not demonstrate no sexual assault ever took place!
.
I understand that. But we see what may be evidence of digital penetration. So I would think if she had been sodomized, there would be evidence of it. No one speaks about it. I cannot believe that if Meyer thought there was prior sexual abuse, and he does, that he would not have checked to see if she had been sodomized. I am sure he came across it with other children and would have mentioned that he believed she was sodomized and we would have heard about it.
By the way, do you ever think this case will be solved?
Got to reading Steve Thomas book again and I came upon this comment from Nedra:
Despite my explaining how a Q&A worked, Nedra talked nonstop. But if you could stay with her long enough, reality might drop into the conversation.
She revealed a bit more about JonBenet messing her pants and bed, a subject she had minimized in our previous interview. Now, however, she said that the child did not wipe properly after a bowel movement, and quite often an adult would have to wash her bottom and change her undies They called it "dirtying." The grandmother also mentioned two occasions when the the little girl had gone to play with her best friend, Daphne White, and had come home with Fleet White carrying her soiled underwear, saying that JonBenet had had an accident and was wearing a pair of Daphne's panties.
Okay...JonBenet soiled her undies and was washed down....something that is normally done when JonBenet soils herself. I am convinced Patsy was the one who washed her bottom and changed her undies.
Despite my explaining how a Q&A worked, Nedra talked nonstop. But if you could stay with her long enough, reality might drop into the conversation.
She revealed a bit more about JonBenet messing her pants and bed, a subject she had minimized in our previous interview. Now, however, she said that the child did not wipe properly after a bowel movement, and quite often an adult would have to wash her bottom and change her undies They called it "dirtying." The grandmother also mentioned two occasions when the the little girl had gone to play with her best friend, Daphne White, and had come home with Fleet White carrying her soiled underwear, saying that JonBenet had had an accident and was wearing a pair of Daphne's panties.
Okay...JonBenet soiled her undies and was washed down....something that is normally done when JonBenet soils herself. I am convinced Patsy was the one who washed her bottom and changed her undies.
Solace,
Coroner Meyer did check to see if JonBenet had been sodomised, and he concluded that she had not been!
Yes I do think this case will be solved simply because enough people care about justice for JonBenet, and the list of suspects is so small, at some point something will enter the public domain that acts as catalyst, and the case will unravel.
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So you disagree with Coroner Meyer?
Solace,
No, because I am not saying just prior to her death JonBenet was sodomised, Coroner Meyer's language in the autopsy report is economic in the sense it generally applies to her cause of death.
What I am speculating is that JonBenet may have been sodomised at some point days before her death, and that this may have been a regular event in her life to such an extent it was emotionally traumatic causing her to soil herself, naturally if this is suspected the family will counter that JonBenet's does not clean herself properly!
Well really and this is cyclical behaviour that comes and goes with the presence of Patsy, does anyone see a red-flag here, also JonBenet would ask others to wipe her down, a six-year old girl that has not developed a sense of modesty, along with her soiled underwear it all adds up to the symptoms of abuse for me. Without her death and physical evidence of prior abuse none of these features on their own is sufficient, since they can all be excused away as JonBenet maturing slowly, but her death and prior abuse place these features in focus.
.
But I can tell you I have seen it at least twice - children asking adults to do just that - they were extremely spoiled and obnoxious. It could be just that also. JonBenet was apparently use to getting just what she wanted. She was hardly afraid of Patsy or anyone. She kicked Patsy at one of the Pageants. I have yet to see the video - if anyone can direct me to it, that would be great. She would walk over Burke's toys, no problem, there. She would mess up the leaves outside the house after they had been raked. She would put makeup on when she wanted (I realize this is an offshoot of the pageants) and Patsy would say to her take it off, it is way too much. She is pretty much a brat. So her soiling her underwear and being too lazy to learn just goes along with her brat-like behaviour. NO?
Now if you were to tell me that it was more than soiling in her bed and in her underwear, I would say, yes UK, absolutely. But it is not, it is just that, soiling - and that means to me she was not very good at it, as most children of that age are NOT.
Yes I am...placed on JB before she breathed her last breath.
JonBenet breathed her last breath down in the basement...next to the wine cellar. She was on her stomach and when she died her body released the remaining urine in her bladder.
So you agree that there was urine found outside the wine cellar and it is JonBenet's? What do you think happened outside the wine celler? Very interested.
JMO8778
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but,what about JR's fibers being there? It would seem he,(or at least his shirt),was used to wipe JB down last.
JMO8778
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I wonder about that, too.Perhaps the trip the next day was just too much of a chance to take,and JB was silenced.
(no flames,please!) But I do consider that a possibility.
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