Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

[ElleElle]

1.Guilty (beyond a reasonable doubt)
2.Guilty (Not Proven)
3.Not Guilty (reasonable doubt)
4.Innocent (Beyond a reasonable doubt)

It would seem the general consensus of this thread lies somewhere between 2 & 3 (but closer to 3)
The original thread consensus looks to be between 1 & 2 (and way closer to 1 than 2)

Mam sure (1) Changed a lot of people's opinion and/or (2) The vast majority of those "new" to the case just simply believe that SA is Not Guilty.

I stand at 4.

There is enough reasonable doubt, IMO.

 

[Juan23]

I signed countless petitions, protested at the capitol in Madison and volunteered for Barrett's campaign during both his runs against Walker. During his re-election (when he ran against Burke) I was registered to vote in Illinois. Would have given anything to see the look on his face when he lost in the recall, am still sad I did not get that opportunity. That being said, to try and stay on topic and put party politics aside, I think everyone can agree he will do nothing to help Avery or his case.

Playing bongos at the Capitol did not work. I agree that Brendan should get a new trial.

 

[stephsb]

I lie closer to #3 ATM, and a lot of that reasoning has to do w. reading the court docs related to the Avery appeals, particularly his post-conviction motions, where he lays out 4 suspects that the defense should have been able to "point the finger at" during trial. The largest question for me (and I followed the trial in real time) was, if not Steven, who killed Teresa? I understand that is not the defense's obligation to prove, but it certainly helps if they can show other potential suspects to the jury. I think the four mentioned in the post-conviction motion certainly moved me away from the guilty camp to considering the real possibility he did not do this, that there were other reasonable suspects that were not properly investigated. The lack of investigation is the largest problem, IMO. We may never know Teresa's real killer, because LE had complete tunnel vision regarding Steven's guilt.

For convenience, I can summarize the case against the four suspects and why the defense should have been able to mention them during the trial. Keep in mind, these are documents presented by the defense. Everything I reference is directly out of their post conviction motions. I won't refer to the suspects by name, but it should be apparent to anyone on here regularly who is who. I'll do this in a separate post to follow

 

[GigiG]

I signed countless petitions, protested at the capitol in Madison and volunteered for Barrett's campaign during both his runs against Walker. During his re-election (when he ran against Burke) I was registered to vote in Illinois. Would have given anything to see the look on his face when he lost in the recall, am still sad I did not get that opportunity. That being said, to try and stay on topic and put party politics aside, I think everyone can agree he will do nothing to help Avery or his case.

Thank you. :heartbeat:

 

[GigiG]

I lie closer to #3 ATM, and a lot of that reasoning has to do w. reading the court docs related to the Avery appeals, particularly his post-conviction motions, where he lays out 4 suspects that the defense should have been able to "point the finger at" during trial. The largest question for me (and I followed the trial in real time) was, if not Steven, who killed Teresa? I understand that is not the defense's obligation to prove, but it certainly helps if they can show other potential suspects to the jury. I think the four mentioned in the post-conviction motion certainly moved me away from the guilty camp to considering the real possibility he did not do this, that there were other reasonable suspects that were not properly investigated. The lack of investigation is the largest problem, IMO. We may never know Teresa's real killer, because LE had complete tunnel vision regarding Steven's guilt.

For convenience, I can summarize the case against the four suspects and why the defense should have been able to mention them during the trial. Keep in mind, these are documents presented by the defense. Everything I reference is directly out of their post conviction motions. I won't refer to the suspects by name, but it should be apparent to anyone on here regularly who is who. I'll do this in a separate post to follow

It was more than strange that the defense was prevented from even bringing up other potential perpetrators. What's up with WI law? It almost seems like the perfect breeding ground for corruption.

Bottom line to me is that there is SO MUCH REASONABLE DOUBT. How can anyone -- no matter how much they find fault with Steven Avery as a person, or the Avery family in general -- get past that?

 

[FromtheDepthsofMel]

This is my first post after lurking for a while so I apologize if I am doing/saying something wrong, but I'm extremely passionate about this case(as I'd lived in Manitowoc County for years before, during, and quite a few years after this case). Also, I haven't read through the entirety of either thread as I found myself getting too worked up about it.

I cannot say whether or not Avery did commit this crime, but living close at that time gave me the opportunity to look into the case more while the investigation and trials were happening. There are plenty of things that don't seem right about this case, and I will be the first to agree that Manitowoc County law enforcement is not the greatest, but there are too many things that were actually left out of the grossly-one-sided-and-actually-pretty-biased-and-not-entirely-truthful documentary that makes me feel like people are being too quick at claiming his innocence.

Just as an example, that cat incident. As I recall, the documentary claimed he was "just goofing around"... but, really, when is pouring oil and gasoline on a cat before throwing it into the flames ever "just goofing around"? Especially when it comes to someone who has now been labeled a murderer?

There were plenty of other things that occurred, before all of this went down, that were circling around the community and the news before Teresa Halbach had ever been reported missing. I won't get into everything because chances are that you've all already gone over some of them or are good enough sleuths to find them yourselves(the actual facts of his past, not news articles that have sprung since the documentary has been shared that tend to add ridiculous "facts" to it), but it was the stuff of nightmares. As in, some of my classmates at the time were plagued by nightmares because of them.

Things that, not his brothers, like he's now claiming could have done it, but Steven Avery himself have done.

I've heard too many excuses that this documentary was "art" so it doesn't matter that it left things out or didn't tell the entire truth, except this was a real case where real people were involved, so if they really wanted to show his side, why sugar coat things?

The *67 calls, along with the last one that hadn't been, and the fact that Teresa had raised concerns about going back to Avery's place to coworkers, and then that he had used fake information to get her to come back actually concern me.

Could he have done it? Absolutely! Could he be innocent? Absolutely! Could the investigation have been handled better? WITHOUT A DOUBT! IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN!

But now that he is in custody, shouldn't all sides of this crime be gone over with a fine-tooth comb like what should have been done in the first place, without bias, before claiming he's innocent and should be released when there had been actual evidence that pointed to him?

I know it's innocent until proven guilty, but in this case, where he is already locked up and had looked to be very guilty, shouldn't we look to prove it one way or the other for Teresa's family who probably had to come to terms with the facts as well as the inconsistencies in this case along with having to deal with issues this documentary brings up before setting who they have come to believe murdered a beloved family member(who law enforcement and a judge and jury have "agreed" has committed this crime) free?

As for Dassey, no one I've known ever thought he had anything to do with this crime.

Okay, I've said my piece for now. I'm off to bed before I give myself a migraine.

 

[stephsb]

PERSON #1 (ST)
104: Motive to kill Teresa was violent and volatile personality. According to co-workers, ST is a short-tempered and angry person capable of murder.
105: Prior experiences w. the court system show ST to be a violent and impulsive person, particularly towards women. Charged w. criminal trespass and battery in 1994, as a result of an incident where he went to the home of CW (a female) at 3AM, who was asleep w. ML (a male). ST walked into her home, told her "you will die for this, b****" and hit ML, knocking him unconscious.
106: Charged for recklessly causing bodily harm to CW's son, RW, disorderly conduct, and damage to property in 1997. ST allegedly accused CW of seeing another man and attacked her, in addition to punching her 11 year old son, RW.
107: Charged w. trespass and disorderly conduct in 1998 for entering the home of his mother w.o permission. Shoved her and called her derogatory names after finding she moved some of his fishing equipment and it was missing.
108: TRO filed by CW against ST. CW alleges ST called her repeatedly at work and threatened to "kick her *" among other derogatory names. Went to her home and threatened to hurt her, and followed her.
109: Assaults CW again in 2002. Shoved her against the wall, took her phone so she could not call police, and punched her w. closed fists twice in shoulder.
110: Had motive to frame Steven. At the time, he was the boyfriend of Barb Janda, now husband, and stepfather of the Dassey children. If he or one of them killed Teresa, he would have motive to frame someone else, and Steven would be a convenient choice.
111: Opportunity to kill Teresa, w. frequent access to Avery property.
112: Testified he was at Janda home twice on Oct 31. Barb, and likely ST, would have known Teresa was coming to the property to photograph Barb's van, and could have seen Teresa photographing the van.
113: ST's alibi is BD (not Brendan, but one of Barb's other sons), their alibis are mutual. Each claims they saw the other driving, both were going hunting, no one else can verify their whereabouts that afternoon.
114: Co-worker claimed that ST approached him trying to sell a .22 rifle belonging to one of the Dassey boys (.22 was believed to be the murder weapon)
115: Co-worker testified ST left work and was a nervous wreck on the day Steven was arrested. Another said ST had claimed one of the Dassey boys had blood on their clothes, and that got mixed up w. his laundry.

PERSON #2 (CA)
117: Potential motive to kill Teresa. Assaulted his former wife and had an aggressive history w. women who came to the Avery salvage yard. Charged in 1999 w. sexual assault by use of force, allegedly held his then wife DA down and had sex w. her against her will. DA also stated that CA tried to strangle her w. a phone cord.
118: DA alleged CA contacted her, violating domestic abuse injunction in place. Entered her property against her will numerous times, and tried to block her from leaving/prevent her from calling police.
119: Aggressive behavior extended to woman customers at Avery Salvage Yard. ZL claimed that CA sent her flowers, gave her $100 bill, repeatedly asked her on dates, and told Calumet investigators she was afraid of him. Similar experiences w. different women detailed in 120-121.
122: Motive to frame Steven- jealousy of Steven over money, his share in the family business, and his fiancee Jodi. Upon Steven's release from prison, he would be involved in the business more and more, and each would get a third of the share. CA's daughter, Carla, said CA did not want Steven working at the salvage yard.
123: Steven was looking to receive a large sum of money as a result of his exoneration. Could have believed that if Steven went to prison, his lawsuit proceeds would go to himself and other Avery family members.
124: Jodi was afraid of CA. She told another woman in jail that she was afraid of him, and that he had come over to Steven's house w. a shotgun because he was made they were dating, and had awoken to find him in Steven's residence in the middle of the night uninvited.
125: Opportunity to kill Teresa. Was on property daily, and would have been aware of anyone coming from AutoTrader to photograph cars on the lot. Allegedly asked Steven if the photographer had come to the yard sometime on Oct 31. Told LE on Nov 6 that he recalled that Steven may have left work to go meet w. a girl and take some pictures.
126: Motive to frame Steven. Could have planted the key in Steven's room and smeared blood in Teresa's car from a rag that was used on Steven's finger. Framing Steven would improve his situation.
127: Prime location to see people coming to do business on the yard. His trailer is closest to the location where Teresa's car was found. Anyone driving Teresa's car would have driven past his trailer.
128:Told LE he spends a considerable amount of time working in pit area, yet never noticed Teresa's car. Has no alibi for Oct 31 as he lives alone. Access to firearms.
129: LE gave him crucial information relating to their investigation.

Will continue with Persons 3+4 in another post to follow

 

[ElleElle]

I lie closer to #3 ATM, and a lot of that reasoning has to do w. reading the court docs related to the Avery appeals, particularly his post-conviction motions, where he lays out 4 suspects that the defense should have been able to "point the finger at" during trial. The largest question for me (and I followed the trial in real time) was, if not Steven, who killed Teresa? I understand that is not the defense's obligation to prove, but it certainly helps if they can show other potential suspects to the jury. I think the four mentioned in the post-conviction motion certainly moved me away from the guilty camp to considering the real possibility he did not do this, that there were other reasonable suspects that were not properly investigated. The lack of investigation is the largest problem, IMO. We may never know Teresa's real killer, because LE had complete tunnel vision regarding Steven's guilt.

For convenience, I can summarize the case against the four suspects and why the defense should have been able to mention them during the trial. Keep in mind, these are documents presented by the defense. Everything I reference is directly out of their post conviction motions. I won't refer to the suspects by name, but it should be apparent to anyone on here regularly who is who. I'll do this in a separate post to follow

More suspects should have been interrogated; which is IMO, the another one that makes no sense:

1. Rest of Avery fam. ? Now stuff is creeping through the cracks?
2. EX BF; brother
3. roommate

Anyone who would have a motive to kill her.

 

[stephsb]

PERSON #3 (EA)
131: Similar family business motives stated above w. CA. Told LE of his willingness to incriminate Steven "if my brother did something, I would tell" His wife greatly disliked Steven. Was on Avery property as well, had access to Teresa, and a bloody towel to plant Steven's blood in her car.
132: Charged in 1995 w. sexually assaulting his two daughters.
133: Means to kill Teresa. He had been shooting rabbits on the grounds, riding around the property on a golf cart.
134: Admitted to driving the golf car past where Teresa's car was found, and claimed he did not see her car (even though his companion would claim he knew every car on the lot) Again on November 4, when in pit w. Steven, did not see Teresa's car. Cadaver dog alerted to a golf car parked behind a small garage at the main residence of salvage yard.
135: Knew Teresa was coming, was familiar w. Autotrader magazine, and Steven had told him he had to go home because someone was meeting w. him from the magazine.
136: Hid under clothes in an upstairs bedroom when police came to collect DNA
137: Along w. CA, would have known more about Avery Salvage Yard and it's day to day business than anyone else.

PERSON 4 (BD)- NOT Brendan!
139: Evidence he did not like Steven. Said Steven would had in the past "lied in order to stab you in the back"
140: Opportunity, he was at home at the time Teresa was on the property. Since she was photographing his mother's car, he would have known she was coming. Admitted he saw Teresa and her car out of his window. Means to shoot Teresa- he was a hunter w. access to guns.
141: Suspicious explanation of movements on Oct 31. Claimed to have gone hunting, said ST would say they passed on the highway- that he would be able to verify "precisely the time" but did not explain why that time would be so important. Stated he took a shower before going hunting, Barb Janda stated he took one when returning home.
142: Physical examination found scratches on his back, he told LE they came from a puppy. The physician said the scratches looked recent, and were unlikely to be more than a week old.

 

[stephsb]

I truly believe that if the evidence presented in Steven's post trial motions had been presented to the jury, the verdict may have been different. Perhaps it would never have come to a trial if these 4 had been looked at closely immediately, instead of focusing on Steven. Two of these suspects (ST and BD) became witnesses for the State, and CA was being given key information from LE related to the investigation of Steven, so it's apparent he was never considered a serious suspect, even w. his complete lack of alibi and violent past. TBH, I have a hard time deciding which out of these 4 would be the best suspect, valid concerns were presented by the defense for all four of them, JMO. I can understand a jury not seeing all of the information presented in the motion, but some of this surely should have been allowed in- the info relating specifically to their movements on and after Oct 31.

 

[stephsb]

This is my first post after lurking for a while so I apologize if I am doing/saying something wrong, but I'm extremely passionate about this case(as I'd lived in Manitowoc County for years before, during, and quite a few years after this case). Also, I haven't read through the entirety of either thread as I found myself getting too worked up about it.

I cannot say whether or not Avery did commit this crime, but living close at that time gave me the opportunity to look into the case more while the investigation and trials were happening. There are plenty of things that don't seem right about this case, and I will be the first to agree that Manitowoc County law enforcement is not the greatest, but there are too many things that were actually left out of the grossly-one-sided-and-actually-pretty-biased-and-not-entirely-truthful documentary that makes me feel like people are being too quick at claiming his innocence.

Just as an example, that cat incident. As I recall, the documentary claimed he was "just goofing around"... but, really, when is pouring oil and gasoline on a cat before throwing it into the flames ever "just goofing around"? Especially when it comes to someone who has now been labeled a murderer?

There were plenty of other things that occurred, before all of this went down, that were circling around the community and the news before Teresa Halbach had ever been reported missing. I won't get into everything because chances are that you've all already gone over some of them or are good enough sleuths to find them yourselves(the actual facts of his past, not news articles that have sprung since the documentary has been shared that tend to add ridiculous "facts" to it), but it was the stuff of nightmares. As in, some of my classmates at the time were plagued by nightmares because of them.

Things that, not his brothers, like he's now claiming could have done it, but Steven Avery himself have done.

I've heard too many excuses that this documentary was "art" so it doesn't matter that it left things out or didn't tell the entire truth, except this was a real case where real people were involved, so if they really wanted to show his side, why sugar coat things?

The *67 calls, along with the last one that hadn't been, and the fact that Teresa had raised concerns about going back to Avery's place to coworkers, and then that he had used fake information to get her to come back actually concern me.

Could he have done it? Absolutely! Could he be innocent? Absolutely! Could the investigation have been handled better? WITHOUT A DOUBT! IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN!

But now that he is in custody, shouldn't all sides of this crime be gone over with a fine-tooth comb like what should have been done in the first place, without bias, before claiming he's innocent and should be released when there had been actual evidence that pointed to him?

I know it's innocent until proven guilty, but in this case, where he is already locked up and had looked to be very guilty, shouldn't we look to prove it one way or the other for Teresa's family who probably had to come to terms with the facts as well as the inconsistencies in this case along with having to deal with issues this documentary brings up before setting who they have come to believe murdered a beloved family member(who law enforcement and a judge and jury have "agreed" has committed this crime) free?

As for Dassey, no one I've known ever thought he had anything to do with this crime.

Okay, I've said my piece for now. I'm off to bed before I give myself a migraine.

Agree about Dassey- I lived in Sheboygan County at the time, and my family still does. I have yet to hear someone say that they think Dassey deserved the sentence he got. I have heard a few people say they believed he could be involved w. the cover-up, although I completely doubt that. I really would love to know what his jury was thinking.

 

[LemonMousse]

1. I know the bones were moved.

2. Steven admits he was with Theresa.

3. that's just my description , I am talking about the devices that he bought to use on his girlfriend . although this is not a big thing for me I might of missed that fact being cleared up ?

4. The receipt is also not a big deal ....the body is ...

5. misdial , butt call..... more excuses.

In order for Steven to have not done this the amount of people that would have to be involved in one way or another and over the years have not let it slip to one honest person is too much and the luck each player in the game would had fall on them , you have to believe that .....

Steven was unlucky enough to .......

Call out a girl (whom he gave the creeps too) to do a job , who then goes missing straight after seeing him and on that same night , light a fire , that then gives the real killer or killers the opportunity to burn the girl else-where (really , really well for some reason when you think of what they had planned) and then plant her remains in his fire .

what luck they had those killers because then ...

The police find this girls car else where and they also have the same idea as the killers I mean that they use a girls violent death to go after Steven ... and they manage to smuggle her car that's full of her blood into his car yard/fields, cover it in his blood and his sweat on the hood...they then wait weeks and throw in the key and bullet for good measure.

but not only this they then go after his 16 year old cousin but don't charge him for any offense...associated with the confession

People have said his past behaviour does not come into it ....I disagree , he murdered a cat ....fire was used to burn the cats body ...some might not see how that has anything to do with the murder.....but murdering a family pet you have to admit is found in alot of people that go on to murder so it should be noted , he also has a history of violence towards women ...one being he's girlfriend who he very recently to the murder had attacked. I see these things as thing I would take into account.

brendan getting bleach on his pants (according to his mother) on the night this all went down just adds a little layer.

were things done wrong? yes !

should there be new trails ? yes !

Brendan would most likely be released but I believe there is enough evidence to convict Avery.

Misdial or butt call is not an "excuse". It's a possible explanation. If you are going to dismiss all alternative explanations as "excuses" without any justification then why bother to discuss the case at all? That's a ridiculously biased position to take.

I don't know why he made that call. I've said before, he could have been trying to locate her phone after killing her. But it could equally be a misdial. I don't know....and neither do you.

There's no evidence that Steven gave Teresa "the creeps". If he did, why did she head out there in her own after leaving a cheery voicemail?

There did not have to be a major conspiracy for Steven to be framed...the killer, Colborn and Lenk. That's all.

Steven regularly had fires....that's how he got rid of rubbish. Whoever killed Teresa would have seen the fire that night and decided that was a pretty good place to bury charred bones. You find this a ridiculous proposition...but yet Steven burning her elsewhere then electing to stick her bones outside his bedroom window makes perfect sense to you? Seriously?

Steven's part behaviour has NOTHING to with this case. If people keep saying that, it's because it's true. If you are going to convict him of a crime because of something that he did 20 years earlier then you are doing a bang up job of showing why the jury system is broken. It's because of this illogical and ridiculous thought process that courts have to ban juries from hearing about past crimes....because very few people are capable of exercising the basic common sense which would show that doing X previously says nothing about whether they did Y now.

Brendan having bleach on his pants is irrelevant. Chlorine bleach is the type that leaves spots and yet it will NOT hide blood from luminol testiing. That garage was not cleaned (if at all) by bleach that left stains on Brendan's pants. Irrelevant.

 

[stephsb]

Watching the replay of the Ken Kratz interview on Nancy Grace and have to say it doesn't look like she's trying to remain unbiased (as usual)

 

[ElleElle]

I truly believe that if the evidence presented in Steven's post trial motions had been presented to the jury, the verdict may have been different. Perhaps it would never have come to a trial if these 4 had been looked at closely immediately, instead of focusing on Steven. Two of these suspects (ST and BD) became witnesses for the State, and CA was being given key information from LE related to the investigation of Steven, so it's apparent he was never considered a serious suspect, even w. his complete lack of alibi and violent past. TBH, I have a hard time deciding which out of these 4 would be the best suspect, valid concerns were presented by the defense for all four of them, JMO. I can understand a jury not seeing all of the information presented in the motion, but some of this surely should have been allowed in- the info relating specifically to their movements on and after Oct 31.

The jury was already tainted. JMO.

 

[ElleElle]

Agree about Dassey- I lived in Sheboygan County at the time, and my family still does. I have yet to hear someone say that they think Dassey deserved the sentence he got. I have heard a few people say they believed he could be involved w. the cover-up, although I completely doubt that. I really would love to know what his jury was thinking.

He should be set free also. He was set up due to to lack of intelligence and LE manipulation.

JMO

 

[ElleElle]

Does a binge watcher of this series change an opinion? I, personally, binged watched all 10 episodes.

Is the tune, to tune into a deep psyche to feel good and evil?

 

[stephsb]

The jury was already tainted. JMO.

The initial polling had not guilty votes on the murder charge. The defense can strike jurors, its not just the prosecution, so they did have a say on who ended up on the jury. That being said, I think moving the case out of southeastern WI would have made getting a fair trial somewhat easier, and would have been completely in favor of it. JMO

 

[samwilzrhcp]

Why the hell hasn't poor Brendan been diagnosed with some form of learning disability? Or is it purely the lack of knowledge of mental health in America?
Had he been diagnosed it would have been very significant in the trial and there would be no way that the confession would have been used in court.
What a shambles, Americans should be embarrassed of their judicial system.


Sent from mi bloody iPhone

 

[stephsb]

1. I know the bones were moved.

2. Steven admits he was with Theresa.

3. that's just my description , I am talking about the devices that he bought to use on his girlfriend . although this is not a big thing for me I might of missed that fact being cleared up ?

4. The receipt is also not a big deal ....the body is ...

5. misdial , butt call..... more excuses.

In order for Steven to have not done this the amount of people that would have to be involved in one way or another and over the years have not let it slip to one honest person is too much and the luck each player in the game would had fall on them , you have to believe that .....

Steven was unlucky enough to .......

Call out a girl (whom he gave the creeps too) to do a job , who then goes missing straight after seeing him and on that same night , light a fire , that then gives the real killer or killers the opportunity to burn the girl else-where (really , really well for some reason when you think of what they had planned) and then plant her remains in his fire .

what luck they had those killers because then ...

The police find this girls car else where and they also have the same idea as the killers I mean that they use a girls violent death to go after Steven ... and they manage to smuggle her car that's full of her blood into his car yard/fields, cover it in his blood and his sweat on the hood...they then wait weeks and throw in the key and bullet for good measure.

but not only this they then go after his 16 year old cousin but don't charge him for any offense...associated with the confession

People have said his past behaviour does not come into it ....I disagree , he murdered a cat ....fire was used to burn the cats body ...some might not see how that has anything to do with the murder.....but murdering a family pet you have to admit is found in alot of people that go on to murder so it should be noted , he also has a history of violence towards women ...one being he's girlfriend who he very recently to the murder had attacked. I see these things as thing I would take into account.

brendan getting bleach on his pants (according to his mother) on the night this all went down just adds a little layer.

were things done wrong? yes !

should there be new trails ? yes !

Brendan would most likely be released but I believe there is enough evidence to convict Avery.

They charged Avery w. crimes related to Brendan's confession, but dropped them before going to trial. Shows exactly where their minds were at. Had Brendan given a better confession, no doubt they'd have used it against Steven, that was clearly what they were aiming for. Since Brendan clearly couldn't give consistent testimony against Steven, they just charged him for the rape and murder charges resulting from the "confession"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[samwilzrhcp]

My belief is that Theresa's ex boyfriend had something to do with it, stalked her and killed her in her car, Calborn found the car before she we was announced missing, hence the calling the car in two days before, perfect opportunity for the corrupt idiots to pin it on Avery, and the rest they say is history.


Sent from mi bloody iPhone