Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #3

[Soulmagent]

People are forgetting the cops has seized the property and ordered everyone off of the whole place. 8 days the only people in or out were LE . No brother could have planted the key, no SA put it there after they left. Some LEO put it there.

 

[Jaiddie]

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/01...-doubt-why-making-a-murderer-isnt-a-whodunnit

This article states exactly how I feel about this whole mess. " Many people have expressed frustration that Making A Murderer doesn’t spend time going after other suspects - Halbach’s brother or her roommate or her ex or those two hunting buddies - but that isn’t what Demos and Ricciardi are doing. They’re using this case to show us a system that is stacked against the defendant in every possible way, from the cost of the trial to the sympathies of the judge and jury, and to force us to examine what a fair trial truly means. "

I get so frustrated with all the posts and comments I see ( not here on this forum, necessarily, but on the many, many other sights that I have visited in my seemingly never-ending search for "truth and justice" ) that state how "biased" or "slanted" this doc was. Whether it was or wasn't, isn't the point. The POINT should be that what the doc DOES show should scare the crap out of anyone living in the US, in that it shows (in real-time, raw footage) what could very possibly happen to anyone who finds themselves in conflict with the law. Not saying it's the norm, because though I believe that this is a problem that is occurring all across the US, and not just WI, I also know that there are many, many more good cops out there than bad ones. It also makes me feel sorry for those good cops right now, because the bad ones have changed my perspective so much (as it has for probably scores of ppl) that if I ever have to deal with LE or the judicial system in the future I will be going into it thinking maybe this is one the bad ones

Btw, as a post-note. This is my first time taking part in a forum of this sort, or such high interest in a murder case for that matter, so I have found myself SEVERELY addicted, and can't figure out how to pull myself away. I am driving my husband crazy because I can't stop myself from wanting to talk about and discuss it, lol. :gaah:

 

[MaxManning]

I just wanted to add that my husband was living not too far from the area the time of the murder. He said that anyone who believes SA didn't kill TH is just plain crazy. I think most people within a 100 mile radius of Manitowoc believe he killed her and would not want SA as their new neighbor....just saying...

It's likely that the jury was potentially filled with people who had that impression before hearing a shred of evidence in the case. Strang mentions using all 6 of his strikes to remove the jury and still had the father of a Manitiwoc deputy on the jury. If he had 15 strikes, maybe he could have gotten the father of the deputy out and any residents of the area with similar bias.

Not saying your husband hadn't heard anything at all, but here we are 9 years later and we still don't have privy to the full trial documents, so I doubt that anyone in that area has them right now either. So their opinions, like ours, are based on bits and pieces that ended up in the media or from the documentary.

Which for me personally, means that moving this trial to avoid bias such as you have described, might have yielded at minimum a fair trial in regards to the jury. Not sure if that was ever requested, but I've seen others on this thread suggest that was appropriate, and I would say I agree.

I think the sentiments that you mention were far too common for a fair trial to occur. It's even possible that in such a small area, that even the judge was biased. Is it fair ? That's what a trial should be.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

It's likely that the jury was potentially filled with people who had that impression before hearing a shred of evidence in the case. Strang mentions using all 6 of his strikes to remove the jury and still had the father of a Manitiwoc deputy on the jury. If he had 15 strikes, maybe he could have gotten the father of the deputy out and any residents of the area with similar bias.

Not saying your husband hadn't heard anything at all, but here we are 9 years later and we still don't have privy to the full trial documents, so I doubt that anyone in that area has them right now either. So their opinions, like ours, are based on bits and pieces that ended up in the media or from the documentary.

Which for me personally, means that moving this trial to avoid bias such as you have described, might have yielded at minimum a fair trial in regards to the jury. Not sure if that was ever requested, but I've seen others on this thread suggest that was appropriate, and I would say I agree.

I think the sentiments that you mention were far too common for a fair trial to occur. It's even possible that in such a small area, that even the judge was biased. Is it fair ? That's what a trial should be.

You are probably right. I know the area fairly well. My grandmother was born in Two Rivers WI. Mostly small farming towns or at least small towns. (Green Bay is the biggest town nearly) Everyone knows everyone in town...and the next town over....and even the next town over....Most people watch the news up there, there is very few jobs...Mostly low wages jobs available. Most people hunt and fish to stock their freezers for the winter. The trial would have had to have been moved to Milwaukee or Madison though for him to get a fair trial.

 

[eve314]

Is it possible for any user to start a new thread? I was thinking about The 3 phone calls - were they important and/or relevant in attributing to guilt?

Additionally I would like to comment on 2 points raised from #1-3.

1. On the 'bias' of MaM -
The film makers have provided several interviews print and non print that state their purpose of MaM:
"What we saw in Steven's story was this incredible and valuable window he provided into the system...We were taking a procedural look at the system. We have no stake in the outcome of the trial; we have no stake in whether Steven is innocent or guilty....We reached out to Ken Kratz multiple times. I first wrote a letter to him in September 2006. I talked about how our project depended on a diversity of insight and we wanted to talk to lawyers on both sides and anyone who would talk to what was relevant to the story. Ultimately he declined as did the Halbach family" http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news...-netflixs-hit-true-crime-show-20160106?page=3

2. On the 'damning' "sweat/perspiration DNA" found on the hood of the RAV4
"They don't know what it is" interview with the film makers 4.17 (http://www.msnbc.com/hardball/watch...filmmakers-discuss-documentary-598845507868);
"That could have been transferred from his skin...also from any other surface that had his DNA...or and there is testimony on this, from a glove of the Division of Criminal investigator who didn't change gloves after handling the inside of the car which included SA's blood and then touched the hood..." Dean Strang on CNN 1:50

Hope this helps.

 

[Tawny]

I just wanted to add that my husband was living not too far from the area the time of the murder. He said that anyone who believes SA didn't kill TH is just plain crazy. I think most people within a 100 mile radius of Manitowoc believe he killed her and would not want SA as their new neighbor....just saying...

You are probably right. I know the area fairly well. My grandmother was born in Two Rivers WI. Mostly small farming towns or at least small towns. (Green Bay is the biggest town nearly) Everyone knows everyone in town...and the next town over....and even the next town over....Most people watch the news up there, there is very few jobs...Mostly low wages jobs available. Most people hunt and fish to stock their freezers for the winter. The trial would have had to have been moved to Milwaukee or Madison though for him to get a fair trial.

I'm just using your quotes to drive home the point that this trial wasn't fair from top to bottom. They moved the trial itself to Calumet... but had Manitowoc jurors. It should have been moved farther with different county jurors, IMO.

 

[LunaticFringe]

Does anyone know if Teresa carried a purse with her?

 

[MaxManning]

Does anyone know if Teresa carried a purse with her?

I have so many questions of this nature, for friends and family. Would love to see the full statements of the family if they exist.

 

[Jaiddie]

[video=youtube;3QbHy_LCALQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QbHy_LCALQ[/video]

Doesn't contain any info that would shed any light on anything as it is a review of MaM , but, I found it very entertaining, lol. I also liked the fact that this guy encourages ppl to not go by the documentary itself, but to research for themselves as well.

 

[LunaticFringe]

I have so many questions of this nature, for friends and family. Would love to see the full statements of the family if they exist.

Me too!I'd love it if a family member or one of her friends would join here.So many questions eh?

 

[Tawny]

Does anyone know if Teresa carried a purse with her?

Following that note... where was her wallet? Her ID? Her credit cards?

We know they found her palm pilot and camera... where is everything else?

 

[eve314]

In so far that I have read, no obvious mention or description of a/her purse but of it's content/s. Kratz makes the following claim in an e-mail cited: 3. Teresa’s phone, camera and PDA were found 20 ft from Avery’s door, burned in his barrel. Why did the documentary not tell the viewers the contents of her purse were in his burn barrel, just north of the front door of his trailer? http://zap2it.com/2016/01/making-a-murderer-ken-kratz-9-reasons-steven-avery-guilty-netflix/

However, information such as court transcripts are currently in the process of procurement, perhaps we will get more details in weeks to come. Hope this helps.

 

[CD82]

Following that note... where was her wallet? Her ID? Her credit cards?

We know they found her palm pilot and camera... where is everything else?

IMO those things could have been completely destroyed, possibly in the same barrel as her camera and palm pilot. But since those aren't paper/plastic/cloth/etc like her wallet likely was, they didn't get completely destroyed.

 

[LunaticFringe]

IMO those things could have been completely destroyed, possibly in the same barrel as her camera and palm pilot. But since those aren't paper/plastic/cloth/etc like her wallet likely was, they didn't get completely destroyed.

I wonder if she had a camera case/bag as well.

 

[Tawny]

In so far that I have read, no obvious mention or description of a/her purse but of it's content/s. Kratz makes the following claim in an e-mail cited: 3. Teresa’s phone, camera and PDA were found 20 ft from Avery’s door, burned in his barrel. Why did the documentary not tell the viewers the contents of her purse were in his burn barrel, just north of the front door of his trailer? http://zap2it.com/2016/01/making-a-murderer-ken-kratz-9-reasons-steven-avery-guilty-netflix/

However, information such as court transcripts are currently in the process of procurement, perhaps we will get more details in weeks to come. Hope this helps.

I hope we get more info from the transcripts. As it stands, Kratz is the least reliable dude ever and the way he worded that is misleading to me. Ugh, this case is so frustrating LOL!

 

[Madeleine74]

Does anyone know if Teresa carried a purse with her?

Allegedly Teresa's purse was burned in the burn barrel, along with her cell phone, PDA, and camera. I say "allegedly" because it was Brendan who said he saw her purse in there. I haven't yet gotten to the part of testimony in BD's trial where what was found in the burn barrel was introduced.

 

[Dogface]

Some of my questions


- Why did SA call TH's phone multiple times and at least twice, and obscured his own number by dialing *67 prior to her coming out that afternoon?

- Who else did TH interact with that fateful day AFTER visiting the Avery property? We know for sure she interacted with SA. SA had the receipt and a copy of the Autotrader that TH gives to each client after getting paid and taking the pictures, and those were inside his trailer. TH had 2 appointments prior to visiting the Avery Salvage Yard but she was never seen or heard from again.

- How did TH's cell phone, PDA, and camera get into SA's burn barrel?

- How did SA get that cut on his right hand middle finger the very day TH was killed?

- How did Brendan's pants (the ones he produced and said he wore the night TH was killed, and said he was wearing when he and SA were trying to get rid stains in the garage with bleach) get large bleach stains on them if what Brendan said was false?

- How did SA's DNA (this was not blood) get onto the latch under the front hood of TH's SUV? (Brendan had disclosed his uncle popped the hood and disconnected something). Who disconnected the hose that was found already disconnected when the hood of the SUV was opened to take the DNA swabs?

- So it wasn't SA who killed TH? Then who did? (The police? One of the brothers?) How did the brothers get SA's blood or DNA into TH's SUV? Then why did SA fire 10 or 11 shots from his own rifle in his garage?

Wasn't the cut on his left hand? Or am I "misremembering"? I remember thinking it was odd the cut was on his left hand but the blood in the RAV4 was around the ignition which would have meant he used his left hand instead of right.

 

[Tawny]

Wasn't the cut on his left hand? Or a I "misremembering"? I remember thinking it was odd the cut was on his left hand but the blood in the RAV4 was around the ignition which would have meant he used his left hand instead of right.

I remember it being his left hand as well.

 

[Dogface]

I remember it being his left hand as well.

That's what I thought! I mainly sleuth from my phone so I don't save images as often as I use to. And I will just say the cut on his hand in his line of work doesn't strike me as odd. Shoot, since becoming a stay at home mom I find that I often have cuts and scratches and bruises that often I have no recollection of getting.

ETA: do we know which hand is dominant for SA? If he is right handed, why would there be blood on the right side of the steering wheel? If he is left handed, would he have used that hand for the ignition? And left handlers out there who do this, or do you typically use your right hand for putting the keys in?

 

[missy1974]

It was on his right hand. I think when I first started researching I read it was his left hand too but have since seen the evidence photo and know now it's his right.