Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #3

[BigCityAccountant]

I can't fathom how SA would burn TH's body in a fire pit that close to his and the Dassey's houses. Did he have everyone's schedule and know what would be the best time to burn the body ? Folks were coming all afternoon and evening, so what would've prevented any of them drifting over to the bonfire ? Not only that, it was Halloween and the Avery's may have gotten a few trick-or-treaters and kids may have come round the fire to say hi to Brendan if he was indeed there.

From my experience, in rural areas, there are not trick or treaters going house to house. Generally, they visit people they know and drive there because its too far to walk between houses.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

My apologies for being unclear earlier. I'm well aware an arrest can be made if there is reason to believe the person being arrested is responsible for the missing person's death.

What I would like to know is, after finding only the Rav4, why did LE immediately arrest only Steven Avery? The investigation had not even begun, why was he immediately the only suspect?

I think that would have something to do with him being the last person to see her. Don't you think it is odd that 2 hours after she got there, that he leaves a message saying (not quoting here) where are you? After all, the bus driver saw her there a hour before--so we do know that SA was the last person to see her alive and he did disguise who he was when he called Auto Trader.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Just curious. Who here (besides me) does not believe LE framed Avery for TH's murder?

I do not believe LE framed Avery for Theresa's murder.

As I have said in the past, I believe Avery filled himself with rage and hatred for 18 years toward young women when he was imprisoned falsely the first time. In his psychopathic mind he felt entitled to rape a young woman. After all, in his mind he had already served time for it, imo. He felt society owed him one. And he certainly couldn't let her live to tell about it. He had to murder her because that is the only way he could cry he was innocent and being framed.

I do take his past behaviors into account just like any expert profiler would also do. I fully feel he is a psychopath. Psychopaths will go to any length they feel necessary when they feel they have been wronged. They don't want to just get even ...they want to get ahead and do much worse than just getting even. He was already a violent before the rape, imo. He controlled and demeaned women. Look at how he reacted when he ran the woman off the road and pointed a gun at her. He was not immune to violence even before he murdered Theresa. Anyone capable of dousing a defenseless animal with oil and throwing it into the fire for fun is really a monster who is capable of anything. It shows he had no value for an animal's life and the hatred he had against women made him target a young woman, who in his mind, IMO, represented the woman who had sent him to prison.

Its like serial killers who have a hate relationship with their own mothers. They will not usually kill their mothers but the profile they select for the women they murder often looks very much like the mothers they hate. Serial killers have admitted that every time they murdered their victim they saw their mother's face.

He really thought he could claim he was innocent and being picked on by the big bad police and it would be believed. He thought his exoneration was the key to getting off scot free. Yet, the individual police officers weren't going to be the ones paying the lawsuit award anyway.

I was curious if an exonerated person had gone on to commit crimes after their release. I read a couple of articles the other night about others who were exonerated for a crime (rape/murder) they didn't commit and later on went on to murder or do other violent acts.

Being exonerated just means he did not do THAT particular crime.

IMO

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I have not been over the transcripts yet, but I'm intrigued that Kathleen Zellner would take on the Avery case. She has nothing to gain as her reputation is already stellar via Ryan Ferguson and others, but tons to lose. And I'm sure she's been over the transcripts with a fine-tooth comb.

Why would she take the case if she didn't believe Avery was innocent ?

Oh the publicity!!!!!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

This thought came to me....if there was a quarry next to the Avery property...and as I understand this quarry was not owned by the Avery's (correct me if I'm wrong)..but what a better way to dispose of a body! The quarry usually has gravel and such that is used in construction--IE: road building, etc. Dump trucks come to the quarry and fill up, take their loads of gravel, rock...whatever and dump it on the construction site. Did I mention that about that time they were doing construction and making 141 wider??? That would mean that the remains would not all go to one place, some to construction on 141, some to someone's new building, etc. etc.
In my opinion, SA burned her in the pit and decided to distribute the remains via the quarry, but ran out of time.

 

[missy1974]

I think that would have something to do with him being the last person to see her. Don't you think it is odd that 2 hours after she got there, that he leaves a message saying (not quoting here) where are you? After all, the bus driver saw her there a hour before--so we do know that SA was the last person to see her alive and he did disguise who he was when he called Auto Trader.

the leaving a message 2 hours later..... is as far as I can tell, a myth..... one that Kratz made up. There is zero evidence about any message he left. Also... according to Colborn, when he went to see SA the evening of November 3rd, SA told him that yes she was there, she took pictures, she didn't say if she had any other appointments, and she left. The idea that SA denied her being there.... I have not seen any whatsoever.

Disguised who he was? It was Barb's vehicle. And according to AutoTrader, TH told them she was going to the Avery's, the 2:27 call... she was on her way to the Avery brothers. She had 3 known appointments that day. One other one was also called into Autotrader by someone and she met with and went to another residence.... was he disguising who he was too?

 

[missy1974]

I truly believe that the pretrial news conferences.... the tidbits put out by the Prosecution and LE really did play a HUGE part in this trial/conviction. Things that were said and never even proved or brought up in the trial... one huge example is the one where Kratz details what he believed happened, what BD "confessed" too, but yet Kratz proved none of that at trial, and didn't even call BD as a witness!!!! There is no way that didn't poison the majority of people that were following this case and especially people from the area that would have had this shoved down their throats daily on the news... in the newspapers.... the coffee shops, etc. I live in a city approximately the same size.... I can just imagine how it was.

I haven't come across anything yet in these transcripts that make me believe he is 100% guilty.... or innocent. I was hoping the transcripts would help clarify my thinking, but it has not. I still believe that there is some issues, whether it was tunnel vision... planting of the key (even if it was LE thinking that ok, we got him, but no "good" evidence, so they were padding their evidence). I just don't know, and I don't know that we will ever get the truth one way or the other.
JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I can't fathom how SA would burn TH's body in a fire pit that close to his and the Dassey's houses. Did he have everyone's schedule and know what would be the best time to burn the body ? Folks were coming all afternoon and evening, so what would've prevented any of them drifting over to the bonfire ? Not only that, it was Halloween and the Avery's may have gotten a few trick-or-treaters and kids may have come round the fire to say hi to Brendan if he was indeed there.

I don't think any kids would come into that creepy compound of junk to trick or treat.

I thought the same thing about burning a body very close to a suspect's home during the Cesar Lauren case when he built a fire pit and burned Maria Lauderbach's body in his own back yard. The neighbor's property sat very close to his property and they saw him at the burn pit several times and thought nothing of it. Not once did they ever think he was burning the body of the pregnant woman he had murdered. They lived in a subdivision with homes all around.

I imagine SA burned things in the burn barrels quite often. If he was use to throwing live animals in a fire then maybe his family had become use to smelling flesh burning or smelling something that didn't smell right because I do believe he killed other animals at the junk yard other than the cat. That is why they found other bones there, imo. He used the fire to get rid of the cat and he used the fire to get rid of THs body. Maybe he is drawn to fires like many psychopaths tend to be.

If he had her in the burn barrel there was no danger to his garage and even if he just had used the fire pit there was no danger to his home for the fire is contained within the pit. The fire would be contained within the burn barrel also. He used tires which become very hot when lit and he may have also used an accelerant. Which btw in most states burning vehicle tires can get someone fined up to 25K and jail time. I have seen some burn barrels so hot they turn blue in some areas and the white in others.

IMO

 

[MysticJynx]

This thought came to me....if there was a quarry next to the Avery property...and as I understand this quarry was not owned by the Avery's (correct me if I'm wrong)..but what a better way to dispose of a body! The quarry usually has gravel and such that is used in construction--IE: road building, etc. Dump trucks come to the quarry and fill up, take their loads of gravel, rock...whatever and dump it on the construction site. Did I mention that about that time they were doing construction and making 141 wider??? That would mean that the remains would not all go to one place, some to construction on 141, some to someone's new building, etc. etc.
In my opinion, SA burned her in the pit and decided to distribute the remains via the quarry, but ran out of time.

One Bone at at time? there were only 2 pelvic bones from what I remember. More likely the majority of the bones were picked up and missed two.

 

[Sustained]

Oh the publicity!!!!!

Nope, not buying it - three tries for a quarter.

 

[Tawny]

I think that would have something to do with him being the last person to see her. Don't you think it is odd that 2 hours after she got there, that he leaves a message saying (not quoting here) where are you? After all, the bus driver saw her there a hour before--so we do know that SA was the last person to see her alive and he did disguise who he was when he called Auto Trader.

If you're going to keep stating that he called her and left a message asking where she was after she left as fact, then we have nothing more to discuss. That is a myth, there is no verification, it was something Kratz threw out there as a theory to explain that call which, for all we know, was him calling to ask her to come back another time to take photos of another vehicle. We don't know why that call was made.

Do you believe Schmitz was attempting to "disguise" who he was by giving another name when he made the appointment?

 

[missy1974]

http://www.wisn.com/news/steven-avery-letter-truth-will-set-me-free/37562046

SA wrote a letter to a reporter (after she wrote him)

On a side note.... and I don't want to sound rude... but he has spent a lot of time in prison.... 18 yrs the first time, 10 yrs now.... don't they have some classes he could take? learn to speak/write proper English?

 

[Sustained]

I don't think any kids would come into that creepy compound of junk to trick or treat.

IMO

Respectfully snipped ...

I lived in a rural area growing up and we would walk a long way to get candy or treats on Halloween. Also, I'm sure Blaine/Brendan had friends that were going trick-or-treating as well and might have stopped by. I have no proof of that as I don't know how many houses are near the Avery's, but I'd be afraid of someone stopping by the fire and seeing something that might incriminate me.

 

[SophieRose]

the leaving a message 2 hours later..... is as far as I can tell, a myth..... one that Kratz made up. There is zero evidence about any message he left. Also... according to Colborn, when he went to see SA the evening of November 3rd, SA told him that yes she was there, she took pictures, she didn't say if she had any other appointments, and she left. The idea that SA denied her being there.... I have not seen any whatsoever.

Disguised who he was? It was Barb's vehicle. And according to AutoTrader, TH told them she was going to the Avery's, the 2:27 call... she was on her way to the Avery brothers. She had 3 known appointments that day. One other one was also called into Autotrader by someone and she met with and went to another residence.... was he disguising who he was too?

The junkyard was called Avery's Auto Salvage, so she might be thinking she's meeting B Janda at the Avery's junkyard.

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/86e...Appleton/635878521857994196-Sign-up-close.jpg

 

[BigCityAccountant]

the leaving a message 2 hours later..... is as far as I can tell, a myth..... one that Kratz made up. There is zero evidence about any message he left. Also... according to Colborn, when he went to see SA the evening of November 3rd, SA told him that yes she was there, she took pictures, she didn't say if she had any other appointments, and she left. The idea that SA denied her being there.... I have not seen any whatsoever.

Disguised who he was? It was Barb's vehicle. And according to AutoTrader, TH told them she was going to the Avery's, the 2:27 call... she was on her way to the Avery brothers. She had 3 known appointments that day. One other one was also called into Autotrader by someone and she met with and went to another residence.... was he disguising who he was too?

During the opening statement in the trial transcripts, Kratz said SA called her to make an "alibi" call "two hours" after she was there. Kratz said he was going to show the jury about that call. That is where I got that from. When SA called the Auto Trader he said he was Barb Janda, not Steve Avery. He made the call to Auto Trader--not Barb. Telling someone that you are not someone who you are claiming to be ---is disguising who you are.

 

[Sustained]

During the opening statement in the trial transcripts, Kratz said SA called her to make an "alibi" call "two hours" after she was there. Kratz said he was going to show the jury about that call. That is where I got that from. When SA called the Auto Trader he said he was Barb Janda, not Steve Avery. He made the call to Auto Trader--not Barb. Telling someone that you are not someone who you are claiming to be ---is disguising who you are.

And I'll bet the receptionist at the Auto Trader really thought Steven was Barb Janda with a man's voice. Most likely Steven made the appointment in Barb's name and didn't claim to be Barb when he called.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

One Bone at at time? there were only 2 pelvic bones from what I remember. More likely the majority of the bones were picked up and missed two.

No, I thought I had read they found 5 or 6 buckets around his house. I could be wrong.

 

[missy1974]

And Strang said that he called later because he had another car he wanted to sell and wanted her to take photo's.

Shoot... this case is so messed up, no one knows if it was 2 hours or 1 hour later because of conflicting testimony!

There reportedly is a call made at 4:35 IIRC No one knows why that call was made. There was NO evidence presented during the trial that SA claimed she was not there to LE or anyone else. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I have not seen that in any testimony provided in the trial (NOT what Kratz said)

Opening/closing statements are a narrative, not proof.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

And I'll bet the receptionist at the Auto Trader really thought Steven was Barb Janda with a man's voice. Most likely Steven make the appointment in Barb's name and didn't claim to be Barb when he called.

Agreed. That has never really been explained. I thought of that a while back....just going off of what was either reported or in the 2005 thread. me=:lamb:

 

[missy1974]

And I'll bet the receptionist at the Auto Trader really thought Steven was Barb Janda with a man's voice. Most likely Steven made the appointment in Barb's name and didn't claim to be Barb when he called.

it was also pointed out during the trial that the account number assigned to it was the same as the Avery's..... I really don't think it was as sneaky as Kratz made it sound.... not after reading the transcripts.

AND... it was also pointed out that on October 10th, she went to photograph a car for SA and it was considered a hustle call.... meaning, he called her directly, didn't call Auto-Trader first, so Auto-Trader and presumably no one, would have known she went there unless she told someone. She never submitted any of her 'hustle calls' until after the fact to Auto Trader, faxed them in. If he really was trying to lure her there.... why not call her directly?