Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #4

[pleasestandby]

I wonder if the film makers have looked at footage after it was posted online that in the documentary they thought it was him.

I have looked at Cameron's website... http://coldcasecameron.com/ it is sooooooo hard to follow. I can see where the connection could be there, I just think the guy was too old... but who knows.

I don't even know if that email is real. Not sure Zellner (or her hired help lol) would put that out there like that?

Use a facial recognition program? It does work for photos, doesn't it? Would they even bother?

 

[pleasestandby]

IIRC the Rambler hood that was leaning against the RAV4 and a piece of cardboard were taken in for testing, I am sure the testing was done... maybe fingerprints, blood, but I have not seen anything yet, or it's lost in those DNA reports LOL The branches, etc. were examined on site for fibres, visible blood, did not see any, didn't take anything like that in.

BD said he and SA put the hood on the car, according to the interrogation, yet the hood was found leaning on the car. I assume the BD interview took place AFTER the vehicle was found?

Also, if they're asking BD leading questions like "who put the hood on the car" then they must have discussed that with him previously. Is there another transcript that relates this, that anyone is aware of? They didn't just pull these questions out of the air unless they knew that the hood was on the car, which, BTW, it wasn't. It was leaning on the car. Big difference.

 

[pleasestandby]

Should be easy to check ... let's pull RH's phone records from 10/30 - 11/9 or so. Hope Zellner can hold of them, but I fear they may have already best lost forever.

I sure hope the prosecution didn't destroy any evidence in this case after the trial because if they did they won't be able to use it as evidence in the new trial. (and it will make them look even worse)

 

[TheDuchess]

Gathered and put together based on all the sleuthing on here...and testimony...conclusions are my opinion only

1:52pm Unknown Call *Exhibit 381~no confirmation on who this is

2:12pm She calls GZ *Exhibit 362 and 381*At this time she tells them she is lost and can't find it

2:13pm picks up her own voicemails *Exhibit 362 and 381Most likely the unknown caller has left her another voicemail

2:24pm Steven avery calls her *67 *Exhibit 362, 360 and 381Only 8 seconds

2:27pm Auto Trader calls Teresa and she supposedly said she was on her way to the Avery Brothers.**Exhibit 362 and 381

2:30pm BoD testifies to seeing Teresa Pull up take the pictures and walk back towards SA's for payment. I believe his time was just an estimation, but it goes with what she told Auto trader.

2:45pm Bod Testifies to leaving at this time and still seeing TH's Rav outside, but not her. Could she have been in the vehicle, and he just didn't see her?

2:41pm Unknown call and CFNA is used. Last known time she acutally uses her own phone itself.*TH herself sets it to call forwarding. If she does this at 2:41 then we know she has not been attacked by Avery, and Bobby Dassey just didn't see her in her vehicle (my opinion).CFNA is turned on possible because she was fed up with the unknown caller.The above matches what Steven Avery stated of TH being at his home during the 2:30ish window...his statement matches what Autotrader says Teresa told them...and BD matches too

3:00pm JoZ testifies that TH came around this time on Oct 31, 2005, She is reminded she doesn't really know, she didn't wear a watch and that eventually becomes 2-2:30pm by the time they are done. 10-15mins.

It wasn't 2:30 because TH told Auto Trader she was on her way to the Avery's not the Zipperers. It would make sense it was 3:00 if she was done at the Avery's about 2:45ish. Approx 10 min drive....

3:30-3:40pm Bus Driver LB testifies to seeing a woman taking pictures of a van that day.This witness actually couldn't confirm the date and this was after it had hit the news. My other question is did the Zipperers grandson Jason ride the same bus as the Dassey boys?? Is it possible she saw TH at the Zipperers at this time?? Or this is fabricated.... Witness testimony is not always reliable. It doesn't fit into what 4 other people stated prior to her statement. Mrs. Zipperers said about 3 during trial, but then went back to 2:30ish (sketchy)

3:30-4:00pm A truck driver reports seeing a car like TH's leave the yard within this time.*Is this even reliable?? Doesn't fit anyone else's timeline....questionable witness...his timing could be off and it was actually the 2:30 ish time like everyone else's. 2:30-3:00 most likely.....

4:35pm Steve calls Teresa w/no feature and her bill reflects 13 seconds his 00 seconds.**Exhibit 362, 360 and 381Avery called her but her phone was set to CFNA at 2:41. He wouldn't have known she had did this. This could have simply been a business related question that he wanted to ask her. Blocking vs. No blocking number is not major to me.

4:45pm Cingular Wireless testifies her phone is powered down at this time.*According to the above in my opinion TH was last at the Zipperers not the Avery's. If she was at the Zipperers I believe she would have told Autotrader this information. It was approx. 5 minutes of conversation!

Mr. Zipperer lied about contacting Autotrader that day... He was belligerent with police...law E.stated that he threatened to shoot TH if she came back....and told theM TH was a trespasser..... Why wasn't their property fully searched like the Avery's??

Possibly killed at the Zipperers.... Vehicle and burned body found by quarry by Colborn....Planting of evidence begins

So wait...you are saying that perhaps Mr. Z killed her? I am confused. Why would he do that and then how would he know to frame SA? I had not heard the stories about Mr. Z getting belligerent with cops and threatening to kill TH. Where did you find this? Why haven't I read this anywhere else??? So perhaps she was lost going to the Z's and then said, well, I have to run over to the Avery place and will come afterwards? So then she finished at Avery's, then went over to Z's and was confronted by a crazed Mr. Z with a shotgun? I dunno.

ETA - I have also floated out the theory that when RH checked her voice mails, there was an anti-incriminating voice mail from SA that he decided to delete. Perhaps SA had left a vm asking her to come back to photograph another car, but maybe RH thought this would make SA appear less guilty.

 

[missy1974]

Why would they call Colborn though? She wasn't even reported missing to the Manitowac guys. I mean it was communicated to Manitowoc on the 3rd but they weren't dealing with THs family or friends. So is it being assumed that they were already in contact with Colborn some secretive way at this point?

Colburn knew shortly after she was reported missing, he was the one that went to SA's that first night, the 3rd. If they had called 911, where would the call go. Sheriff's dept? Colburn was on duty until 11 or so that night. You have a good point though.... on the 3rd, would they have a direct number to Colburn, probably not! The 4th, I'm not sure.

 

[missy1974]

Should be easy to check ... let's pull RH's phone records from 10/30 - 11/9 or so. Hope Zellner can hold of them, but I fear they may have already best lost forever.

I think it depends on the carrier. I hope she or someone before her requested these. I don't think they would be part of the evidence from 2005-07 because he was never investigated so no need to pull them back then.

 

[missy1974]

Use a facial recognition program? It does work for photos, doesn't it? Would they even bother?

I'm not sure if they would do it or not. Zellner might ;-) My guess is ... the women (sorry I can't remember their names) that made the documentary have already started to work with Zellner and are in the process of making a new series or season I guess of Making a Murderer, if Zellner wants their footage, I don't think they would tell her no. IMO

 

[missy1974]

BD said he and SA put the hood on the car, according to the interrogation, yet the hood was found leaning on the car. I assume the BD interview took place AFTER the vehicle was found?

Also, if they're asking BD leading questions like "who put the hood on the car" then they must have discussed that with him previously. Is there another transcript that relates this, that anyone is aware of? They didn't just pull these questions out of the air unless they knew that the hood was on the car, which, BTW, it wasn't. It was leaning on the car. Big difference.

I have not gone through BD's confessions in order. Some on here have and their opinion is that everything that BD "confesses" too, he was fed either in that interview or the one's before. I also think there were times that they talked to him and it is not recorded. I can't handle listening to those interviews, that kid should be at home with his Mom and cat!

 

[missy1974]

So wait...you are saying that perhaps Mr. Z killed her? I am confused. Why would he do that and then how would he know to frame SA? I had not heard the stories about Mr. Z getting belligerent with cops and threatening to kill TH. Where did you find this? Why haven't I read this anywhere else??? So perhaps she was lost going to the Z's and then said, well, I have to run over to the Avery place and will come afterwards? So then she finished at Avery's, then went over to Z's and was confronted by a crazed Mr. Z with a shotgun? I dunno.

ETA - I have also floated out the theory that when RH checked her voice mails, there was an anti-incriminating voice mail from SA that he decided to delete. Perhaps SA had left a vm asking her to come back to photograph another car, but maybe RH thought this would make SA appear less guilty.

There is testimony from Mrs. Z that he was angry when the police called him on November 3rd. I think outside of the jury, Strang says he was threatening to have the dog eat anyone who came on their property, saying TH WAS a trespasser and he would shoot her, and apparently he gave LE a series of lies for that afternoon for what he and his grandson were doing that afternoon. I am actually leaning towards she went back to the Zipperers AFTER the Avery's.
I'm not sure if the woman at Auto Trader is all that believable, or maybe that's not fair.... I don't think she recalls her conversations as well as she said. I wonder how many photographers she talks to in a day? She said that TH said it WAS the Avery brothers. Using was, not is.... hmmm had she already gone to the Avery's then? Was she on her way outta there? not on her way out there?

As for the voicemail.... a vm could have been deleted, we will never know. The call was very short though, so I think he just hung up.

 

[missy1974]

I definitely feel that Mr. Z should have been investigated further. Vehicles, for damage. TH's RAV4 had some damage, how did that happen???? Maybe she did go there, maybe he seen her leave and he followed her, the guy sounds a bit paranoid LOL

 

[missy1974]

Zellner's tweet for today:

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 5h5 hours ago
Forensic evidence identifies killers as well as evidence planters. Either way it takes down criminals. #MakingAMurderer

 

[Amber29]

Colburn knew shortly after she was reported missing, he was the one that went to SA's that first night, the 3rd. If they had called 911, where would the call go. Sheriff's dept? Colburn was on duty until 11 or so that night. You have a good point though.... on the 3rd, would they have a direct number to Colburn, probably not! The 4th, I'm not sure.

Yes I'm aware of Colborns visit to the Averys on the evening of the 3rd. If they called 911, that would certainly be recorded. So I'm seriously doubting that. Weigert and a few others from that department is who was interviewing friends and family on the 3rd when she was reported missing. They involved Manitowac county only because her last known location (the Averys) was in their jurisdiction. Surely he would've left a card and said call with anymore information. That's my issue with any direct calls between Colborn and RH and whoever else on the 3rd or even the 4th. There isn't a connection there.

 

[missy1974]

Yes I'm aware of Colborns visit to the Averys on the evening of the 3rd. If they called 911, that would certainly be recorded. So I'm seriously doubting that. Weigert and a few others from that department is who was interviewing friends and family on the 3rd when she was reported missing. They involved Manitowac county only because her last known location (the Averys) was in their jurisdiction. Surely he would've left a card and said call with anymore information. That's my issue with any direct calls between Colborn and RH and whoever else on the 3rd or even the 4th. There isn't a connection there.

Right, that's why I said you had a good point LOL I'm not sure I am in the RH/MH found the RAV4 camp. If Colborn (which I keep putting as Colburn grrrr) seen that RAV4 before the 5th, I believe it was just because he was looking around (illegally) and if he called it in, it would have been considered an illegal search and any evidence found would most likely not be allowed. JMO

Also, Avery's was not her last known location at that time, or at least not according to the call between 2 officers.

http://stevenaverycase.com/phone-calls-between-investigators#sthash.ENv1BqRA.dpbs

the website says it's Nov 4th, but I think it's the 5th (he says the flyover was yesterday and said something about a search today)

I have just listened to this call again, at this point, they still don't know that there is any calls after 2:27!!!! Dawn at AutoTrader says she left a message at that time (over 4 minutes long???? she couldn't even remember when LE first talked to her on the 4th that she had talked to her? sigh) They do have tower locations, they were faxed to them, but I have never read anything else about them, for or against SA, why not? (on second thought... maybe they were tower locations from TH's bill they are talking about)

I do find it suspect that the Zipperers are the only one's that can't give a time she was there.... and were not very cooperative. JMO

 

[missy1974]

someone tweeted to Zellner about this photo...


there is a hair hanging from the vent under the steering wheel. I wonder if that was collected, I don't remember reading anything about hairs collected (even if matched to TH)

 

[andreww]

I think someone said this the other day too, maybe you? It's like a little kid hiding behind a curtain and thinking you can't find them!

What makes me the most suspicious about the RAV4 is... they were open for business tues/wed/thur/fri, no one noticed it? I think it was reported that Charles was down that way crushing cars, or someone was.... they didn't notice it either? I really do think that the way it was covered would make it stand out more. And this salvage yard was their whole life... they knew what to find where, it would definitely be out of place. So even if SA did this... he took a chance that CA/EA/AA or anyone found it.

I don't think a lot of people here have spent a lot of time at an auto salvage yard, because I have. A lot that size could easily be searched for a RAV4 in less than an hour. It wouldn't surprise be that Avery would park it where he did either. Its on the outskirts of the yard, well away from the hub of activity.

As to the theory that the cop that called in the plates may have been illegally on the yard the previous night, the plates weren't on the truck. Wouldn't he have tried to identify it by the VIN?

 

[AutumnDawn]

Day 2 has testimony about Zipperers..... Reddit also has information on the Zipperers.

 

[missy1974]

I don't think a lot of people here have spent a lot of time at an auto salvage yard, because I have. A lot that size could easily be searched for a RAV4 in less than an hour. It wouldn't surprise be that Avery would park it where he did either. Its on the outskirts of the yard, well away from the hub of activity.

As to the theory that the cop that called in the plates may have been illegally on the yard the previous night, the plates weren't on the truck. Wouldn't he have tried to identify it by the VIN?

It was said to be near the car crusher. I *think* it was in statements that the car crusher was used that week. The outskirts of the yard can be argued either way.... Avery put it far away, away from the hub of activity, or that someone planted it there using the backroad, away from the hub of activity to not be spotted or heard from the residences.

As for the Colborn theory.... if he called in the plates to be sure and realized oh shoot. Taking the plates off would make the call less suspicious, no? Those plates were also found in a vehicle on the outskirts of the property (from what I understand from the testimony). There is also the theory that he found the vehicle elsewhere and moved it to SA's property. I am not sure what I believe at this point LOL

You say it would take less than an hour to search that property..... you mean by car, right? not by foot? just curious. Although I live in an area that I have seen many auto salvages, I have never physically walked through one (I should ask my hubby this question too LOL)

 

[Amber29]

I definitely feel that Mr. Z should have been investigated further. Vehicles, for damage. TH's RAV4 had some damage, how did that happen???? Maybe she did go there, maybe he seen her leave and he followed her, the guy sounds a bit paranoid LOL

I do agree with you on this. Anytime the police narrow in on a suspect too soon, without going through the process of eliminating others is bad.

 

[Soulmagent]

It was said to be near the car crusher. I *think* it was in statements that the car crusher was used that week. The outskirts of the yard can be argued either way.... Avery put it far away, away from the hub of activity, or that someone planted it there using the backroad, away from the hub of activity to not be spotted or heard from the residences.

As for the Colborn theory.... if he called in the plates to be sure and realized oh shoot. Taking the plates off would make the call less suspicious, no? Those plates were also found in a vehicle on the outskirts of the property (from what I understand from the testimony). There is also the theory that he found the vehicle elsewhere and moved it to SA's property. I am not sure what I believe at this point LOL

You say it would take less than an hour to search that property..... you mean by car, right? not by foot? just curious. Although I live in an area that I have seen many auto salvages, I have never physically walked through one (I should ask my hubby this question too LOL)

FWIW.

I have and do visit junkyards. Personally I think the Avery's Junk yard looks pretty organized ,with the rows being neat and the accessibility of the cars. From what I can tell. Anyway with that being said , having spent hours in junkyards and pulling my own parts for my cars, hubby's cars ,the kids ..etc. I know that it can be difficult to locate what you are looking for if you do not know what you are looking for or at. Cars are missing part and wrecked and makes and models look the same row after row.
I am pretty good at knowing what a car make and model is without seeing a decal and in a junk yard it can take me a while to find a car that might have the part I want. I get a lot of Nissan parts and I often search for body parts of a certain color and that can take me 45 minutes or so just in the Nissan section. Which is only 1/10 of the entire lot. A RAV4 and a nissan pathfinder would look alike as would a trooper. Plus in a junk yard the sides of the cars can be obscured so you only see the tops of the cars. I often stand on the hood of one and look for what I am searching for and sometimes I am wrong about what I spotted . If I was searching based on color , and make for any car that looked like TH's I would be mighty lucky just to find it in 45 minutes in a yard of 4,000 cars and it being a factory Toyota color. .

No way could every SUV be checked in an hour IMVHO

 

[Amber29]

someone tweeted to Zellner about this photo...
View attachment 88209

there is a hair hanging from the vent under the steering wheel. I wonder if that was collected, I don't remember reading anything about hairs collected (even if matched to TH)

There were hairs collected from the RAV4. Though one is not listed as collected from that spot.