Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #4

Status
Not open for further replies.
I saw some DATELINE? episode last Saturday on the case. What I took away from it was that practically ALL blood gets into the vials via a needle, a nurse testified that SHE put the hole there and some big deal blood collection guru stated that it's normal for blood to collect between the stopper and glass due to the decreasingly tighter fit ie: stoppers get narrower towards the tip. For obvious reasons, so they can fit into the vial blah blah blah............

Of course. So many conspiracy theorists about, listening to the desperate ramblings of defence attorneys. How did people think the blood got in the vial? That was the first thing I thought of. As for the seepage between the vial and the stopper, I'm quite familiar with rubber seals on wristwatches and know that they have to be greased regularly or the rubber dries and the seal will leak with time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I'm sitting here thinking anything is possible... intimidation OR they just didn;t care anymore at some point. After weeks of trial, failure to agree, arguing amongst themselves, possible distaste for another and the desire to just GO HOME?? Makes you also wonder if, at some point, they just fill out their cards and say SCREW IT.....?

Since we know the original vote was heavily in Avery's favour, one would think that if the jurors just wanted to go home, they would have simply voted innocent.

From watching the documentary it is evident that there is a lot of simple minded people in that town. My guess is that the jury reflected that as well. There were likely a couple of intelligent "bright lights" as well. As with Brendan Dassey, it is easy to persuade someone with limited reasoning and debating skills.

Long story short, the people that original voted innocent simply weren't smart enough to convince the smarter people that saw right through the defence smoke screen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Laci Peterson??? Come Onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!! LOL

I know right!!!! the guy totally lost me at Laci Peterson!!! I followed that case back then.... could be why I don't remember this case? they were around the same time I think. I was looking at stuff about EWE again yesterday.... I have to wonder if this guy just inserted himself into some of these high profile cases, not necessarily having anything to do with them, but writing letters, etc.
 
BREAKING: Bomb threat called in to Manitowoc County Sheriff's Office, police say


This case has got to me on soooo many levels...Before I saw this documentary, I considered myself to be a level-headed, logical person with an open mind who tried to see the world from all perspectives. While I realized that corruption in LE and the judicial system existed on some levels (because they essentially are human beings and some can be flawed), I naively thought that that was just a small percentage and that it probably would never effect me. I know that is a selfish way to think now, but I am just one person and would have no idea how to bring about the change that is needed. Then I sat down to Netflix and watched this show with my mouth on the floor for 10 hours. I felt like I had spent my whole life up to this point with my eyes shut tight, and this film shot them wide open.


You have the first conviction where they literally trace SA's mugshot to make the sketch in order to convict him, completely ignore his 16 alibi's and receipts that prove he couldn't have done it. They knowingly sit on evidence that could have exonerated him for 8 years.

Then we came to the second conviction and I look at all the things that were done wrong. First, and foremost, the fact that the very county that had so maliciously framed him the first time and that he was suing for $36 million were such an integral part of the discovery of so much of the "damning evidence" that was found. They publicly stepped back from the investigation, so as to take away even the APPEARANCE of conflict of interest, yet the two officers that made it a point to be smack dab in the middle of it all had just recently been deposed for his civil suit. WHY WERE THEY THERE? I am yelling that part because I still cannot see a logical reason for why they didn't stay as far away from that investigation as possible as they said they were going to. I have seen recent statements from Sheriff Hermann that in hindsight, Lenk and Colburn should have stayed away, but that does not answer the glaring question of "WHY WERE THEY THERE?"

Next, we come to the APPALLING way that the actual victim was treated in this investigation. At no point did they actually try and discover what happened to that poor girl. They had their story (actually 2 stories, as she was shot in the garage for Steven's trial and raped, tortured, throat slit, shot for Brendan's) and they were BY GOD going to have it go down that way for the record. The most unthinkable for me is the way that the cremains were treated. First, a small voice in head question's if those bones were even Teresa's because Sherry Culhane (the DNA specialist who sat on SA's hair for a year before testing it, and also has been known to contaminate her own tests but breaks protocol because she was told to place TH in that garage) is the one to match the DNA to TH. Anyway, that is just a small voice, so I ignore it. But I have a really loud voice that screams in my head every time I think about how they recovered and examined those bones. They did absolutely no documentation of the recovery, and would not allow a coroner or medical examiner ON SITE to properly recover them. They took NO film or video of the bones in situ. They just shoveled them up in buckets (probably smashing them more than they already were) and then, most unbelievable of all, eventually delivered the bones in a box to the medical examiner's office. Stop and think about that for a minute! THEY DELIVERED HER BONES IN A BOX TO THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE!!!! And her family seems to be all for all of this. I don't get it.

Then we come to Brendan. We have a 16 year-old kid who does not seem to be socially or intellectually capable of dealing with everything that is happening to him. We have 2 LEO's intimidating and twisting things so that he says what they need him to say. We see him get a defense lawyer who is against him from the beginning before even meeting with him. His own defense team essentially get the goods to convict him before being, basically, fired AND THEY STILL USE THAT EVIDENCE TO CONVICT HIM! Both of these cases completely blow my mind, and I never would have believed them possible, except that I saw it with my own eyes from the raw footage that the docu-series shows.

I am sorry about the long ramble, but I just wanted to explain WHY I say this case is driving me crazy. I have never considered myself a "conspiracy theorist" and never ever would have thought I was one of those "tin foil hat" people. But now, after all I have read about and seen from LE in this county, I now sit here typing with my aluminum crown FIRMLY sitting on my head. I read about bomb threats being made in Manitowoc and three thoughts flutter around in my head.

1. The first one is that the caller is hurting the situation more than they are helping because while change DOES need to be made, it needs to be done in the proper way and not at the expense of people who have nothing to do with these cases.
2. My second thought is that maybe the caller is that crazy dude from Oregon who thinks RH is the murderer. The same one who tried to spend the Christmas holiday with the Avery's and ended up having to be forcibly removed by the sheriff's dept. Also, the same man who is video taping himself wiping down the door handles of Ken Kratz's car.
3. And, finally, my third thought (and the one that gets my crown vibrating) is that right now Manitowoc is feeling BLISTERING heat from the court of public opinion, so it seems very convenient that with crazy stuff like this going on they can now be a victim in this saga too. Who's to say that someone in the system hasn't decided that they have had enough of the international outcry, and decided to do something that will take some of this heat off of them.


And I hate the fact that I am now so cynical that that third thought even crossed my mind. As I said at the beginning...I am now crazy. :crazy:
 
Wonders about the Jack in the front seat. not only am I wondering if there was one of her tools missing, as it has been said. There was a jack on the floor in the front passengers side. When was this removed to take the other known pictures of the front seat. The front seat picture we know has already been cleaned some what since the stuff in her dash console is cleaned out. What happened out on the road, Who hit her, why did she need her jack and where is the TOOL that could possibly have been a weapon of some sort?

attachment.php


I really wish I could get my hands on EVERY single picture and in the order they were taken.

I have to say... that front end damage has always bothered me, the light... the missing wheel well.... and now you are showing me she had her jack out???? LOL It's not like it moves around freely.... it is "attached" to the floor under the seat, I think you have to loosen a nut or something to get it out, plus there is a tool missing... plus there is spatter on the back door... plus we KNOW (indisputable fact) that she was in the back of that RAV4 at some point more than likely bleeding from her head.

Maybe she left Avery's.... ran over something? hit something?(although I would expect more damage) pulled over, someone stopped to help her? hit her with the tool..... knocked her out, put her in the back of the RAV4, later shot her because she wasn't dead. There were some sightings of her after Avery's.... a bridge, is it the same bridge that a cell phone and papers were found? taking a picture of a cow?

Orrrrrr maybe whoever put the vehicle there hit something taking the back way in, there were back roads, but they look kind of rough... but would that person (even SA) use that jack? and was that jack swabbed? tested??
 
I know right!!!! the guy totally lost me at Laci Peterson!!! I followed that case back then.... could be why I don't remember this case? they were around the same time I think. I was looking at stuff about EWE again yesterday.... I have to wonder if this guy just inserted himself into some of these high profile cases, not necessarily having anything to do with them, but writing letters, etc.
Totally.... attention wh*re? Jon Benet, sure. Laci?? Wayyyyyyyyyyy too far fetched. Not against the idea of a super sneaky covert serial killer being the perp-- just lost me there.
PS you crack me right up!!
 
This case has got to me on soooo many levels...Before I saw this documentary, I considered myself to be a level-headed, logical person with an open mind who tried to see the world from all perspectives.

And I hate the fact that I am now so cynical that that third thought even crossed my mind. As I said at the beginning...I am now crazy. :crazy:

snipped for space!

Just quickly before I go to work..... I have a fb friend... she used to work with some pretty good defense lawyers... that did a lot of capital cases. She is forever sharing links on fb about exonerations, convicted but innocent people, etc. When this documentary came out.... I told her she needed to watch it, she hasn't commented on it at all.... I asked her last night if she watched it... she said, she started too, but it was all too familiar to her so she didn't finish. She said it happens all the time, and she just couldn't bring herself to watch it all.

She has suggested I read the book by John Grisham, the Innocent Man. Apparently.... the lawyers that helped with that book, are the one's she worked with and I didn't even realize they frequently comment on the links she shares, etc.

I just thought I would share that .... for some people that work within the system, I don't think this concept of being set up, tunnel vision, etc it is not news to them IMO

Off to work.... you all play nice, if I have the time I will try to check in from my phone ;-)
 
Totally.... attention wh*re? Jon Benet, sure. Laci?? Wayyyyyyyyyyy too far fetched. Not against the idea of a super sneaky covert serial killer being the perp-- just lost me there.
PS you crack me right up!!

LOL is there anyone that doesn't think Scott did it????

besides Geragos? hahaha he doesn't count ... he got paid to think it wasn't him LOL
 
Totally.... attention wh*re? Jon Benet, sure. Laci?? Wayyyyyyyyyyy too far fetched. Not against the idea of a super sneaky covert serial killer being the perp-- just lost me there.
PS you crack me right up!!

While I do believe Cameron is a bit of a crackpot, some of the stuff in there is pretty compelling. And while some of it seems a bit farfetched, there is the fact that he was a serial killer, so it's not that much of a stretch to think that he wasn't out doing some of this stuff. Look at the book he wrote, how he became a pseudo-celebrity, inserted himself into cases, etc... Now I wouldn't think much of just some nutty person doing that as anything other than a nutty person doing that, if he wasn't actually a serial killer and wasn't actually able to run around undetected for so many years. So while I take some of it with a grain of salt, it does bring up the idea that a "shadowy figure" isn't all that impossible.

While random murders by strangers are fairly rare, they do happen. And if you think of the notoriety of SA when this murder took place, is it completely all that farfetched to think that someone (not particularly EWE) COULD have seen an opportunity to commit this crime and setup SA?

Again, I know I am a broken record, but we have a very unique situation in this case in that the "crime scene" is both a public place as well as a private residence. So access to the site is certainly available to someone who may wish to gain access fairly easily.
 
This case has got to me on soooo many levels...Before I saw this documentary, I considered myself to be a level-headed, logical person with an open mind who tried to see the world from all perspectives. While I realized that corruption in LE and the judicial system existed on some levels (because they essentially are human beings and some can be flawed), I naively thought that that was just a small percentage and that it probably would never effect me. I know that is a selfish way to think now, but I am just one person and would have no idea how to bring about the change that is needed. Then I sat down to Netflix and watched this show with my mouth on the floor for 10 hours. I felt like I had spent my whole life up to this point with my eyes shut tight, and this film shot them wide open.


You have the first conviction where they literally trace SA's mugshot to make the sketch in order to convict him, completely ignore his 16 alibi's and receipts that prove he couldn't have done it. They knowingly sit on evidence that could have exonerated him for 8 years.

Then we came to the second conviction and I look at all the things that were done wrong. First, and foremost, the fact that the very county that had so maliciously framed him the first time and that he was suing for $36 million were such an integral part of the discovery of so much of the "damning evidence" that was found. They publicly stepped back from the investigation, so as to take away even the APPEARANCE of conflict of interest, yet the two officers that made it a point to be smack dab in the middle of it all had just recently been deposed for his civil suit. WHY WERE THEY THERE? I am yelling that part because I still cannot see a logical reason for why they didn't stay as far away from that investigation as possible as they said they were going to. I have seen recent statements from Sheriff Hermann that in hindsight, Lenk and Colburn should have stayed away, but that does not answer the glaring question of "WHY WERE THEY THERE?"

Next, we come to the APPALLING way that the actual victim was treated in this investigation. At no point did they actually try and discover what happened to that poor girl. They had their story (actually 2 stories, as she was shot in the garage for Steven's trial and raped, tortured, throat slit, shot for Brendan's) and they were BY GOD going to have it go down that way for the record. The most unthinkable for me is the way that the cremains were treated. First, a small voice in head question's if those bones were even Teresa's because Sherry Culhane (the DNA specialist who sat on SA's hair for a year before testing it, and also has been known to contaminate her own tests but breaks protocol because she was told to place TH in that garage) is the one to match the DNA to TH. Anyway, that is just a small voice, so I ignore it. But I have a really loud voice that screams in my head every time I think about how they recovered and examined those bones. They did absolutely no documentation of the recovery, and would not allow a coroner or medical examiner ON SITE to properly recover them. They took NO film or video of the bones in situ. They just shoveled them up in buckets (probably smashing them more than they already were) and then, most unbelievable of all, eventually delivered the bones in a box to the medical examiner's office. Stop and think about that for a minute! THEY DELIVERED HER BONES IN A BOX TO THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE!!!! And her family seems to be all for all of this. I don't get it.

Then we come to Brendan. We have a 16 year-old kid who does not seem to be socially or intellectually capable of dealing with everything that is happening to him. We have 2 LEO's intimidating and twisting things so that he says what they need him to say. We see him get a defense lawyer who is against him from the beginning before even meeting with him. His own defense team essentially get the goods to convict him before being, basically, fired AND THEY STILL USE THAT EVIDENCE TO CONVICT HIM! Both of these cases completely blow my mind, and I never would have believed them possible, except that I saw it with my own eyes from the raw footage that the docu-series shows.

I am sorry about the long ramble, but I just wanted to explain WHY I say this case is driving me crazy. I have never considered myself a "conspiracy theorist" and never ever would have thought I was one of those "tin foil hat" people. But now, after all I have read about and seen from LE in this county, I now sit here typing with my aluminum crown FIRMLY sitting on my head. I read about bomb threats being made in Manitowoc and three thoughts flutter around in my head.

1. The first one is that the caller is hurting the situation more than they are helping because while change DOES need to be made, it needs to be done in the proper way and not at the expense of people who have nothing to do with these cases.
2. My second thought is that maybe the caller is that crazy dude from Oregon who thinks RH is the murderer. The same one who tried to spend the Christmas holiday with the Avery's and ended up having to be forcibly removed by the sheriff's dept. Also, the same man who is video taping himself wiping down the door handles of Ken Kratz's car.
3. And, finally, my third thought (and the one that gets my crown vibrating) is that right now Manitowoc is feeling BLISTERING heat from the court of public opinion, so it seems very convenient that with crazy stuff like this going on they can now be a victim in this saga too. Who's to say that someone in the system hasn't decided that they have had enough of the international outcry, and decided to do something that will take some of this heat off of them.


And I hate the fact that I am now so cynical that that third thought even crossed my mind. As I said at the beginning...I am now crazy. :crazy:

I LOVE this whole post and could not agree more with everything you said [emoji122]🏻 [emoji4]
 
Newest tweet from KZ for discussion....

attachment.php

She's trolling Kratz pretty good. Or whoever she believes planted false evidence. Send them in one direction while you work in the other.

I like this woman. :guitar:
 
From Manitowoc County Scanner.

To answer a few questions, from the information I have right now, the first threat call came in at 18:37 and said there were explosives near the Courthouse/Jail/Sheriff's Dept./Dispatch Center area of town and the caller did mention that this was "justice for Steven" (a direct quote from the caller). Police did say it was "likely" that the call came from "out of the area". Officers quickly quarantined off the area. After searching all the buildings with the help of the Green Bay Bomb K-9, an all clear was given shortly after 21:00. Shortly after this all clear, around 21:20, a second call came in stating that there is going to be a "massacre tonight" (quote from Manitowoc Police Captain). So far nothing has been found, nor have there been any confirmed shots fired. As of 22:00 we have an all clear in the downtown area. The City of Manitowoc PD, Sheriff's Department, Two Rivers Police Department and Green Bay Police Department are all assisting in the investigation. The best thing to do right now is to avoid the area if at all possible and let the detectives and officers do their work. If you see something you believe to be out of the ordinary, please call 911. This is a very serious matter that the police are taking very seriously. I will do my very best to keep you as up to date as I possibly can.

Watch for an Avery family arrest for the bomb threat in 3....2....1....
:jail:
 
KZ is on a roll today!

View attachment 88548

I like her LOL it's like she is taunting MCSD/Kratz. I'm sure it's more about keeping it in the public, and keeping everyone's interest... but I do like that it seems that Kratz isn't shooting his mouth off still, unless I'm missing it, which, I'm ok with that too LOL

I have thought about the no blood/DNA mix (not in the RAV4, not on the key, or anywhere else), so it's nice to see her address that there was none.
 
Newest tweet from KZ for discussion....

attachment.php

OR... whoever deposited the blood (like from a cut) wasn't wearing gloves, but held something in their hand, like a rag or something, allowing them to avoid leaving any fingerprints in the SUV, but tops/sides of fingers still 'open' and capable of leaving blood or skin cells.
 
I like her LOL it's like she is taunting MCSD/Kratz. I'm sure it's more about keeping it in the public, and keeping everyone's interest... but I do like that it seems that Kratz isn't shooting his mouth off still, unless I'm missing it, which, I'm ok with that too LOL

I have thought about the no blood/DNA mix (not in the RAV4, not on the key, or anywhere else), so it's nice to see her address that there was none.

ITA - and she isn't someone people can easily say "she was swayed by the documentary" or "she's just some dumb amateur internet sleuth who doesn't know anything." She is the foremost expert in the country who is proclaiming his innocence loud and clear.

Just look at her profile pic. Can she be any clearer?

kz.PNG
 
OR... whoever deposited the blood (like from a cut) wasn't wearing gloves, but held something in their hand, like a rag or something, allowing them to avoid leaving any fingerprints in the SUV, but tops/sides of fingers still 'open' and capable of leaving blood or skin cells.

But wouldn't you expect that blood to have at least some mixture of the victim's blood as well?
 
I'm curious... on November 3rd, did AC see a cut on SA's hand? On November 4th did Remiker and whoever else went to the property notice the cut on his hand? After they found the RAV4, I think it was November 5th and 6th, Det. O'Neill in Crivitz(not sure if that is the right one), during his interviews of SA, did he notice a cut on his hand? He spent at least a couple of hours with him, didn't he? that cut would have been quite noticeable.... did any of them make note of it?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
219
Guests online
470
Total visitors
689

Forum statistics

Threads
625,776
Messages
18,509,647
Members
240,841
Latest member
womanofsteel69
Back
Top