Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #4

[missy1974]

Here is what I have been thinking about.....

Let's take away the questionable items. The bones were moved. The blood was planted. The key was planted. The bullet found months later was contaminated. The latch could have been easily transferred by the tech that opened the hood the first time.

So the bones are in the barrel's behind the Dassey's - moved to SA's burnpit
Her electronics were found in another burn barrel (that is not as close to SA's house than I originally thought). - someone put them there.
The RAV4 is parked in the back of the lot, without SA's blood. - planted blood
The key is not found in SA's trailer. - planted


I think if they found the bones on the property, the RAV4, and her electronics..... with no blood, not in the burnpit behind SA's, and no magical key. They wouldn't have had enough to charge him. They could suspect him, but with others living on that property.... how could they prove it was SA and not them? I guess they could have investigated the others more, but the others on the property weren't suing the county. The others didn't get out of jail for a rape that some in that county still believe he committed. It is all just a little too convenient for me.

Also.... it just makes no sense to me that if SA knew on November 3rd about this missing girl, it was reported on the news that they were "searching", they had to have seen the helicopters on the Friday, why didn't he cover that dang RAV4 better if he did indeed plant it. The big RAV4 on the back tire would be my first clue, it wasn't even covered. So even by the 3rd, if he did it, he knew they were on to him.... move the RAV4.... get those bones and put them in your car to take to the cabin with you or dump them elsewhere. Make sure the electronics aren't sitting on the top of the barrel?

Anyway... my point is.... if TH was murdered by someone other than SA on that property it could explain the RAV4, the bones, the electronics. I think it is possible that someone on the 3rd could have found out that TH was at SA's and they took advantage of it and moved those things there. I think LE didn't have to plan it all, plant it all, kill her to get SA. It took a key and his blood to strengthen their case. It's really not that complicated.

JMO and some random thoughts that have been floating in my head.

 

[missy1974]

Ditto Madeleine. So sorry for your loss BCA. I have a 13 year old mutt that I make sure I love extra hard on every day. Hugs all around.

Also, side note, but I'm a baby when it comes to my sleep so every morning I catch up on the threads with my coffee and all of you guys are really great. I love the sleuthing, the conversations, and the open minds that are required for this case. Any time I want to add something, I wake up to see its already been covered. Whether I agree or disagree I always find myself saying "well said" How do you guys not get as confused as I do with all the info?! Keep up the great work and I'll be over here drinking my coffee and reading!

:coffeews: me too! I usually have to have 1 cup before I can post LOL

 

[missy1974]

Why was any of her testimony allowed? I'll never understand that because that test seems to be a big point for a lot of people. All DNA testing should also be blind. Those testing shouldn't know who or what they are looking for. If they are guided to a specific wanted result that's a flag right there.

Right, they wouldn't necessarily incriminate themselves! I tend to believe that somebody in the family is responsible... I can't convince myself that LE would know to put bones in a firepit and a burn bin.. I'd think they'd plant just in the firepit. I'm sure it's been explored before.. that maybe she was accidentally killed on the property and a cover up ensued but some stuff just doesn't make sense with that either. But I think the general evidence pointed to the family and LE helped narrow it down. JMO

Now the theory you guys were discussing last night is fascinating but i have to read more about it before I even dare comment!

I posted a link in the DNA thread to a reddit thread.... they had some pretty smart scientist/lab people discussing the DNA and EDTA testing. I am not even going to discuss the EDTA (don't want to pretend I understand it all lol) other than the experts seem to agree that it shouldn't have been allowed (and apparently since this trial, new laws, it probably wouldn't have been allowed)

ETA: some in that reddit thread seem to think that KZ's recent tweet means she is using a new test ... something about mRNA, the word signature and transcribe LOL

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 14h14 hours ago
One thing perps & planters have in common is leaving their signatures at the crime scene. Science always transcribes

That's exactly what I was just pointing out in my last post! I don't think it required a big conspiracy.

 

[pleasestandby]

Here is what I have been thinking about.....

Let's take away the questionable items. The bones were moved. The blood was planted. The key was planted. The bullet found months later was contaminated. The latch could have been easily transferred by the tech that opened the hood the first time.

So the bones are in the barrel's behind the Dassey's - moved to SA's burnpit
Her electronics were found in another burn barrel (that is not as close to SA's house than I originally thought). - someone put them there.
The RAV4 is parked in the back of the lot, without SA's blood. - planted blood
The key is not found in SA's trailer. - planted


I think if they found the bones on the property, the RAV4, and her electronics..... with no blood, not in the burnpit behind SA's, and no magical key. They wouldn't have had enough to charge him. They could suspect him, but with others living on that property.... how could they prove it was SA and not them? I guess they could have investigated the others more, but the others on the property weren't suing the county. The others didn't get out of jail for a rape that some in that county still believe he committed. It is all just a little too convenient for me.

Also.... it just makes no sense to me that if SA knew on November 3rd about this missing girl, it was reported on the news that they were "searching", they had to have seen the helicopters on the Friday, why didn't he cover that dang RAV4 better if he did indeed plant it. The big RAV4 on the back tire would be my first clue, it wasn't even covered. So even by the 3rd, if he did it, he knew they were on to him.... move the RAV4.... get those bones and put them in your car to take to the cabin with you or dump them elsewhere. Make sure the electronics aren't sitting on the top of the barrel?

Anyway... my point is.... if TH was murdered by someone other than SA on that property it could explain the RAV4, the bones, the electronics. I think it is possible that someone on the 3rd could have found out that TH was at SA's and they took advantage of it and moved those things there. I think LE didn't have to plan it all, plant it all, kill her to get SA. It took a key and his blood to strengthen their case. It's really not that complicated.

JMO and some random thoughts that have been floating in my head.

I think there was a whole lot of probable cause to show that SA's family members who lived elsewhere on the lot had plenty of motive and opportunity to kill TH.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/newsdocs/avery%20documents%201-22.pdf

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/newsdocs/avery%20document%20page%2023%20+.pdf

 

[missy1974]

I think there was a whole lot of probable cause to show that SA's family members who lived elsewhere on the lot had plenty of motive and opportunity to kill TH.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/newsdocs/avery%20documents%201-22.pdf

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/newsdocs/avery%20document%20page%2023%20+.pdf

oh I agree.... but I don't know that they had enough to charge any one of them. Although... did they ever look at BoD's vehicle? ST's? CA's? EA's? I'm not sure.

 

[pittie_mcclure]

I posted a link in the DNA thread to a reddit thread.... they had some pretty smart scientist/lab people discussing the DNA and EDTA testing. I am not even going to discuss the EDTA (don't want to pretend I understand it all lol) other than the experts seem to agree that it shouldn't have been allowed (and apparently since this trial, new laws, it probably wouldn't have been allowed)

ETA: some in that reddit thread seem to think that KZ's recent tweet means she is using a new test ... something about mRNA, the word signature and transcribe LOL

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 14h14 hours ago
One thing perps & planters have in common is leaving their signatures at the crime scene. Science always transcribes

That's exactly what I was just pointing out in my last post! I don't think it required a big conspiracy.

I have the same problem. I can see so much important info flying right over my head. I usually have to read a few times before grasping! I am going through those Reddit threads now and have been the last few days.

KZ's tweets have been interesting to say the least and I totally 100% agree with you. If most people were already thinking SA may have done it, it would only take one or two people to plant evidence to help it keep going that way. You've said it many times & I think it should be repeated over and over.

SA's previous conviction could even be used by those one or two people.. "We wrongly convicted him before so why would we do it again?" knowing full well they helped the case with placing evidence where it needed to be.

Are we going to find out about new testing and evidence or are we going to have to wait for court etc? I've gotten spoiled with serial/undisclosed & hearing about new evidence while they're uncovering it.

 

[pittie_mcclure]

I think there was a whole lot of probable cause to show that SA's family members who lived elsewhere on the lot had plenty of motive and opportunity to kill TH.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/newsdocs/avery%20documents%201-22.pdf

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/newsdocs/avery%20document%20page%2023%20+.pdf

Thanks for sharing and I totally agree.

 

[Safeguard]

I think Zellner and crew is going to get everything that can be gotten, out of all this.

It will be interesting looking back though, to see what we spotted, what we missed ect...

I admit that I'm not "sleuthing" as much as I am just keeping up. For one thing, I'm not as good at it as some folks are yet, but I enjoy learning.

I read over at reddit a lot too. It's a more relaxed atmosphere and your allowed to go *places* you can't here, which can lead to some really interesting discoveries. Also there is humor interspersed, which can be a welcome relief to to the plain grueling fact based discussions. Some of those threads are hysterical;

"We know you were on the Titanic Brendan, tell us what you saw!"
"Dark"
"Something cold Brendan, what was it?!"
"Wind"
"Alright! I'm just gonna come right out and tell you, it was an ICEBURG! You saw an ICEBURG!
Now tell us the truth, what did you do to the iceburg Brendan?"
"Cut its hair"

Lol!

 

[pittie_mcclure]

Haha Safeguard.. I'm glad I'm not the only one mainly just trying to keep up. Between here and there, trying to keep it all straight it a great brain workout for me.

And I agree, apparently they also got his confession re: Tupac and Biggie. The mystery is finally solved!

On a more serious note I too will be devouring KZ's info when it's out to see how far off I've been this whole time

 

[missy1974]

I think Zellner and crew is going to get everything that can be gotten, out of all this.

It will be interesting looking back though, to see what we spotted, what we missed ect...

I admit that I'm not "sleuthing" as much as I am just keeping up. For one thing, I'm not as good at it as some folks are yet, but I enjoy learning.

I read over at reddit a lot too. It's a more relaxed atmosphere and your allowed to go *places* you can't here, which can lead to some really interesting discoveries. Also there is humor interspersed, which can be a welcome relief to to the plain grueling fact based discussions. Some of those threads are hysterical;

"We know you were on the Titanic Brendan, tell us what you saw!"
"Dark"
"Something cold Brendan, what was it?!"
"Wind"
"Alright! I'm just gonna come right out and tell you, it was an ICEBURG! You saw an ICEBURG!
Now tell us the truth, what did you do to the iceburg Brendan?"
"Cut its hair"

Lol!

LOL

I have to say.... there are many times that I'm reading over there that I have to laugh at some of the comments. Today someone asked what happened to the RAV4 and if it's still in evidence... someone else answered Colburn has it, finders keepers LOL

I really don't think it took the whole department to do this. It took 1... maybe 2, I'm not really sure, but it would take me quite a bit to convince me that the whole department didn't look down on the Avery's, and SA specifically.

Also, I should point out that I have done a lot of reading elsewhere (reddit, facebook, online searches)and once you make family connections between some of the key players, it's mind boggling LOL It's been portrayed like they were all co-workers... and my guess is that many of them would see each other at family reunions/weddings, etc LOL We have rules here at websleuths though, for good reason ;-)

 

[missy1974]

Zellner did say on Friday that there could be movement in the next 30 days. (that was 4 days ago... only 26 more days to go LOL)

http://wbay.com/2016/01/29/1-on-1-with-steven-averys-attorney-kathleen-zellner/

I missed this the first time. I had read that SA's gf had sent her the case 4 years ago, so this was not new to her when the Netflix documentary came out.

Zellner said she’s been following Avery’s case for years, and after questioning him for hours she decided it was a case she had to take.

 

[TheDuchess]

I think Zellner and crew is going to get everything that can be gotten, out of all this.

It will be interesting looking back though, to see what we spotted, what we missed ect...

I admit that I'm not "sleuthing" as much as I am just keeping up. For one thing, I'm not as good at it as some folks are yet, but I enjoy learning.

I read over at reddit a lot too. It's a more relaxed atmosphere and your allowed to go *places* you can't here, which can lead to some really interesting discoveries. Also there is humor interspersed, which can be a welcome relief to to the plain grueling fact based discussions. Some of those threads are hysterical;

"We know you were on the Titanic Brendan, tell us what you saw!"
"Dark"
"Something cold Brendan, what was it?!"
"Wind"
"Alright! I'm just gonna come right out and tell you, it was an ICEBURG! You saw an ICEBURG!
Now tell us the truth, what did you do to the iceburg Brendan?"
"Cut its hair"

Lol!

And it had toes!

 

[Madeleine74]

I think it is possible that someone on the 3rd could have found out that TH was at SA's and they took advantage of it and moved those things there. I think LE didn't have to plan it all, plant it all, kill her to get SA. It took a key and his blood to strengthen their case. It's really not that complicated.

The planter would need to know, for certain, that TH never went anywhere else after visiting the Avery Salvage Yard that afternoon. Imagine if TH was alive and seen somewhere else but the investigators hadn't put all her movements and locations together yet.

 

[missy1974]

The planter would need to know, for certain, that TH never went anywhere else after visiting the Avery Salvage Yard that afternoon. Imagine if TH was alive and seen somewhere else but the investigators hadn't put all her movements and locations together yet.

When I say someone... I mean the killer (if not SA), and they would be aware of the time between her leaving Avery's and when they killed her just from news reports (if she was at Avery's at 2:30 and they know they got her or killed her at 2:45, how many people were going to see her between that? or maybe they followed her from Avery's? they would be aware of what she did when she left Avery's) If it's being reported that SA may have been her last stop and what time, they could easily take the chance that someone seen her after Avery's but if the vehicle and remains are found at Avery's, how serious are those "sightings" going to be. JMO

I think I'm leaning towards someone else on the Avery property, but I still don't have anything that convinces me that she was at Zipperer's before Avery's. JMO

 

[Madeleine74]

You must not believe Mrs. Zipperer, who was there at the time TH visited to photograph their vehicle, and testified to that fact.

 

[missy1974]

Also... I have seen posts that Avery had days to clean and cover his tracks. And we know it would have to take hours for her remains to be the way they were found.
How did SA "know" he would have that much time?
How did he know she didn't have another appointment and could possibly be missed?
How did he know she didn't have plans for that night and would be missed?
How did he know that she didn't have a boyfriend or a friend or family at home waiting for her and would be concerned that she wasn't home by a certain time that evening?
How would he know that she would not be reported missing for 3 days?
How did he know that no one would call AutoTrader that night to see where her appointments were that day so they could backtrack or call LE?

He took some big chances that night if he did it. Someone could have easily been there that night or the next morning looking for her. Unfortunately she was not reported missing for 3 days.

 

[Madeleine74]

Couldn't the same be said for any killer - they wouldn't necessarily know what their victim had planned for later, who exactly might miss them, when they might be missed, who might start looking for them and how quickly?

All murderers take some amount of risk, most murderers make some mistake or leave some evidence of some kind, and many murderers get caught, eventually.

SA had his fire within a couple hours or so of TH never being heard from again and his fire continued over several hours. No one in her life knew yet she was missing, certainly not that night or the next 2 nights either.

 

[missy1974]

You must not believe Mrs. Zipperer, who was there at the time TH visited to photograph their vehicle, and testified to that fact.

I never said I doubted she was there, I doubt whether she was there before Avery's.

In her testimony she was very unsure of the time. I don't recall JZ testifying that TH was there before Avery's. And she testified she heard her husband on the phone when LE called to investigate (and according to LE he was belligerent). And she testified that she never seen her leave the property.

 

[Safeguard]

You must not believe Mrs. Zipperer, who was there at the time TH visited to photograph their vehicle, and testified to that fact.

I don't really have any compelling reason to believe Mrs. Zipper.

 

[Amber29]

Zellner did say on Friday that there could be movement in the next 30 days. (that was 4 days ago... only 26 more days to go LOL)

http://wbay.com/2016/01/29/1-on-1-with-steven-averys-attorney-kathleen-zellner/

I missed this the first time. I had read that SA's gf had sent her the case 4 years ago, so this was not new to her when the Netflix documentary came out.

It's kind of sad that for 4 years now she's been aware of his case but wasn't willing to take it on until the documentary was released and it blew up in the media. Makes one think she's definitely in it for the publicity.