Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery

[stephsb]

When he ROBBED the bar. What was it that he took, exactly?

Two cases of beer, two sandwiches, a toolbox, and $14 in quarters is what I've read.

Not sure what to say about that....


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[GigiG]

I'm sorry if I gave the impression I was encouraging people to go to Reddit, just last night I was criticizing theories that I have seen posted on Reddit, and found offense. If my words were poorly stated, i apologize. I find most of what is posted on Reddit trash, and that is part of the reason I comment and stay on here.

I believed Avery was guilty at the time, I still believe he could be guilty (although I do not agree with the prosecution's theory of the murder) but since watching the documentary, reading posts and theories on here, reading back through archived news articles, current news articles, trial transcripts and day by day trial summaries, Brendan's statements, and talking to people who are local and have interacted w. The Avery's, I think there should have been a better investigation done from the beginning, and that investigation should have led to very good suspects other than Steven. I'm sorry my thinking isn't "strenuous" enough for you and you don't agree with my opinions, that is no need to make personal attacks about my career path. I don't need you to hope or pray that I use Strang and Buting and role models, I am well aware of what exceptional attorneys they are, and have expressed that repeatedly. If I said anything to offend you, I apologize. I have never intended to make personal attacks towards anyone on this site, or criticize anything other than someone's ideas. I have no problem with you criticizing my ideas, but there is no need to be patronizing about it.


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Please, don't misinterpret things. I apologize if you took my comments to be patronizing. That wasn't my intent.

I applaud your career path and wish you all the best in your endeavors. I only hope that you can use the same level of effort you've used to conclude that Steven Avery is guilty (but within the bounds of a reasonable doubt?) to achieve your career goals. If, as you have stated, you're a law school student, please don't take offense to the notion that you should have a more highly developed level of intellectual rigor. It comes with the terrority, does it not?

I'm on your side, just wishing you'd think, think, think... before you speak. That's what good lawyers do.

 

[Soulmagent]

Two cases of beer, two sandwiches, a toolbox, and $14 in quarters is what I've read.

Not sure what to say about that....


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Sounds like he needed gas money and lunch for work the next day. Not defending the robbery , but it made me laugh to think about because I have heard stories of people doing that for just that reason.The beer was probably the driving force behind SA's robbery.

 

[stephsb]

Thank you for the clarification, I apologize for taking offense to your posts. It is quite possible I was being too sensitive, but in any respect, I appreciate your response. I was offended at what I perceived as an attack on my competency in the legal profession, and felt it unfair for you to make judgments on my thought process based off posts on websleuths regarding a case I have no professional association with. Again, I was being too sensitive, and apologize for that, and hope we can move forward from here.

To get back to Steven, I did think he was guilty, and tbh was shocked that the documentary was focused on him and not Brendan, who I have always believed innocent. I followed the trial when it occurred, but it was 10 years ago, and I was a lot younger. I believed he got a fair trial, although I questioned whether or not I myself could convict him. I don't think this is an odd concept...jurors for the Casey Anthony trial stated they thought she was involved in Caylee's death, but the State didn't prove it. My feelings with Steven were similar. Since first watching the documentary, however, my feelings have begun to change, and I feel I have expressed that (or at least tried to) in my posts. I do use Tapatalk often , and some posts I do rush because I want to quick make a point before I forget it, or have somewhere to be, and I will try to be better about that. I also love playing devil's advocate, and probably don't make that clear enough. Since reading posts and following the discussion on here, I have become more convinced Avery deserves a new trial because the investigation the led to his charges was so focused on his guilt, other reasonable suspects were never considered. I am not willing to say Avery is innocent, at least not yet, but I am certain I could not have convicted him. I am deeply concerned that we will never know the real culprit, because even if Avery is granted a new trial, we can never go back 10 years and start a clean investigation. This concerns me, as I think there is a great possibility someone is getting away with murder.

Again, thank you for your input, I appreciate it and will try and consider it when making future posts.




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[stephsb]

Sounds like he needed gas money and lunch for work the next day. Not defending the robbery , but it made me laugh to think about because I have heard stories of people doing that for just that reason.The beer was probably the driving force behind SA's robbery.

But the toolbox? I'm glad you brought up laughing, because I didn't want to admit I actually laughed when I read what he stole. My first thought was he must have been drunk, why else would you take those things? I'm also not defending the robbery but I'm sure he's not the first young adult (I think he was in his late teens) to do something that idiotic.


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[Soulmagent]

But the toolbox? I'm glad you brought up laughing, because I didn't want to admit I actually laughed when I read what he stole. My first thought was he must have been drunk, why else would you take those things? I'm also not defending the robbery but I'm sure he's not the first young adult (I think he was in his late teens) to do something that idiotic.


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Yeah, a lot of jobs say "must have own tools'' in the ad.

 

[TheDuchess]

https://shar.es/16Wrqn

'Making a Murderer' Filmmakers Moira Demos and Laura Ricciardi Fire Back at Steven Avery's Former Prosecutor Ken Kratz: 'He's Not Entitled to His Own Facts'

Not sure if I am doing this right. Excellent article and very interest first comment in the comments section.


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[GigiG]

https://shar.es/16Wrqn

'Making a Murderer' Filmmakers Moira Demos and Laura Ricciardi Fire Back at Steven Avery's Former Prosecutor Ken Kratz: 'He's Not Entitled to His Own Facts'

Not sure if I am doing this right. Excellent article and very interest first comment in the comments section.


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Thank you for this. Excellent article.

 

[TheDuchess]

Thank you for this. Excellent article.

Did you read the first comment?!?! [emoji33]


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[ziggy]

Yes - Wisconsin rules of evidence on priors is harsh! The Nolo sounds like it is describing Federal Rules.

This link explains Wisconsin state law rules. If you want to reference them they are in Wisconsin Code section 906; 906.08 and 906.09.
http://johndimotto.blogspot.com/2010/08/impeachment-and-rehabilitation-evidence_09.html

 

[stephsb]

Did you read the first comment?!?! [emoji33]


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Not surprising at all, unfortunately. Kratz has some serious issues he should attempt and sort out, JMO. The saddest thing to me is that these cases were moved to Calumet to help ensure a fair trial, of all the counties in WI, what are the chances they end up with someone like Kratz? Some of the comments he's made trying to "rehabilitate his image" (which I think is exactly what he's trying to do, the filmmakers were right) are beyond sickening.


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[GigiG]

Did you read the first comment?!?! [emoji33]


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I think so... About the woman's daughter being raped, etc.?

Needless to say Kratz is disgusting....

 

[ziggy]

I don't think so. Some maybe. As for the cuffs and leg irons...they were purchased, but found in the trailer, not burn barrel and had no trace of TH on them. This site link at the bottom is a good compilation of pics, documents, transcripts, etc.

It makes no sense that Brendan's pants had bleach stains when it has been shown the garage was not bleached. If they were, were they presented in court? I haven't gotten through the entire trial transcript yet.

The towel incident and TH's prior complaints about SA were not admissible - I believe because they were hearsay, which is inherently unreliable, and there was no corroborating evidence.

Check out this link:
http://pastebin.com/S1DERiFb

 

[dexter75]

There is a LIVE interview with Stang on FB's Steve Avery Project where Dean actually answers a lot of questions pertaining to MAM.
One is regarding prosecutor & evidence being " left out/omitted "
Nice interview, via FB

 

[LemonMousse]

Where does Strang say he doesn't know about Steven's guilt, I thought they both said on the doc they were convinced he was innocent? Regardless, I got the same impression you did- I think they genuinely believe/believed in Steven's innocence. I think the documentary portrayed them extremely well, especially compared to hacks like Kachinksky and Kratz. Avery certainly couldn't have asked for better attorneys..these guys really were exceptional, IMO.

I brought up the 4 suspects they mentioned in the appeal docs, and I think that is a good look into why they haven't been persuaded. In sure they got the pleasure of interacting with some of the residents of the Avery property first hand, and when you look at their actions, and lack of alibis, Steven starts to seem less and less like the killer.

Have you read anywhere if the defense had their own investigators? Most do, and that could also be a reason they believe he's innocent- they have evidence we don't have and that the Court wouldn't allow pointing strongly to another party's guilt




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Strang has said on a few interviews over the last couple of days, when asked, that he's not convinced that Steven's innocent but he's certainly not convinced that he's guilty either. If you put Dean Strang into YouTube you get a couple of hits.

Haven't read anywhere that they used their own investigators. Most criminal lawyers do, though, don't they?

Judging by his twitter, Buting certainly doesn't like Kratz, that's for sure!

 

[ziggy]

It also wasn't robbery, unless he held someone up and said give me beer, sandwiches, tools and some quarters. If they were cheese sandwiches, that's just about as Wisconsiny as you can get...JK Wisconsinites. My brother lived there for years and years. I had my first legal drink on State St. in 1979. Love Brats. Not so fond of the winter.

 

[dexter75]

WOW! Poor girl.

https://shar.es/16Wrqn

'Making a Murderer' Filmmakers Moira Demos and Laura Ricciardi Fire Back at Steven Avery's Former Prosecutor Ken Kratz: 'He's Not Entitled to His Own Facts'

Not sure if I am doing this right. Excellent article and very interest first comment in the comments section.


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[dexter75]

Do I have to be a subscriber?
I see nothing

http://archive.htrnews.com/article/99999999/MAN0101/60420064/Avery-assault-charges-delayed

 

[dexter75]

Not sure if this is worth mentioning or not, FWIW I read on Steve's page via FB a poster had commented after Teresa's Mother had watched the MAM documentary she had a change of heart toward how she feels about Steve Avery. I will let you all read and judge for yourselves as I do not like to put words in peoples mouths and I'm certainly NOT one to know everything:skip:

 

[Soulmagent]

Some one linked this article over there..
It is really interesting but dont look if images disturb you . It shows how different fires impact human remains.
http://www.burnedbone.com/burned-bone