Netherlands Netherlands - Maarsbergen - WhtFem 12-15 - 'Het Heulmeisje' - Poss German - Oct'76

[ZaZara]

Maddy Hollanders was last seen in East Flanders, Belgium, in the company of serial killer Claudy Pierret. Pierret, a sadistic killer, remains the prime suspect in her disappearance. Maddy was his stepsister.
Pierret was convicted of two murders of women who were found badly mutilated. He left their bodies in areas in Belgium that were familiar to him. I'll skip the grisly details, but there is nothing in the case of Het Heulmeisje that points to Pierret or Maddy Hollanders ~ Maddy remains missing and her body has never been found.

More info about Maddy Hollanders and Claudy Pierret here (in Dutch):

https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20200807_97482311

 

[worldwatcher]

Maddy Hollanders was last seen in East Flanders, Belgium, in the company of serial killer Claudy Pierret. Pierret, a sadistic killer, remains the prime suspect in her disappearance. Maddy was his stepsister.
Pierret was convicted of two murders of women who were found badly mutilated. He left their bodies in areas in Belgium that were familiar to him. I'll skip the grisly details, but there is nothing in the case of Het Heulmeisje that points to Pierret or Maddy Hollanders ~ Maddy remains missing and her body has never been found.

More info about Maddy Hollanders and Claudy Pierret here (in Dutch):

https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20200807_97482311

Thanks, but I already read it, it's just the lack of clear oversight information about height, color eyes etc of Maddy.

And due to the reported,-previous life period before the heulmeisje was murdered "years/months malnutrition or a one-sided diet", I didn't think, there was a match, but a rule out DNA list, would do fine.
(I don't understand, why in the case of Maddy H. DNA isn't (made) available.


"There is a good chance that she was born in the late 1950s or early 1960s and grew up in the area below Cologne and Bonn, the Rhine Valley area. There are also indications that she could come from the areas between Germany and the Czech Republic (the region between Dresden and Prague).

Another origin is not ruled out by the police. In the mid-1970s, the girl probably moved in phases, over a period of almost two years, from Eastern Europe (possibly Poland or Ukraine) to Western Europe (possibly Germany or the Netherlands). During this time, she may have gone through a period of malnutrition or a one-sided diet (probably in the last 14 months of her life).
Maarsbergen - Heulmeisje

I do think, the heulmeisje and her killers were on their way back "home" on A12. (from Utrecht to Arnhem)
It was known for drugs / prostitution route,att
She was found naked, so I guess, her clothes were dumped, burned or taken somewhere and discarded on the road.
Destroying her clothes, possessions by fire seemed not so easy, it was a hot summer, so drawing attention with the risk of wildfire....
Jmo

 

[worldwatcher]

It sounds very interesting, if her DNA will be entered in commercial DNA databases.

The chances are more likely for her true name to be known....

Utrechtse Heuvelrug - The Public Prosecution Service and the Netherlands Forensic Institute do not want to cooperate with an investigation by RTV Utrecht to discover the identity of the Heul girl. RTV Utrecht has asked the Public Prosecution Service and NFI to make the Heul girl's DNA available. This request has been denied. In February, the judge will consider the question of whether this should still be done.

Krijgt Heulmeisje haar naam terug? RTV Utrecht voert rechtszaak om dna-onderzoek te doen


The editors of RTV Utrecht are investigating the origins of the Heulmeisje. In this article we explain why we are doing this and what we want to achieve. We also explain why we made certain choices.

RTV Utrecht suspects that the Public Prosecution Service, the police and the NFI are dropping the ball in this case , and wants to investigate and/or demonstrate this by doing part of this investigation themselves. Over the past ten years, the police and the Public Prosecution Service have announced several times that a large-scale kinship investigation would take place in order to still discover the identity of the Heul girl. RTV Utrecht demonstrated that such an investigation was not started for a very long time and was only partially started later.

Research in commercial DNA database
RTV Utrecht was approached two years ago by a professional genealogist. He offered help and reported that with an extensive DNA profile it should be possible to trace relatives of the Heulmeisje. In order to discover the identity of the Heulmeisje, RTV Utrecht wants to compare the girl's DNA with DNA profiles in commercial genealogical databases.

SBM & BBM
Verantwoording onderzoek RTV Utrecht naar de identiteit van het Heulmeisje

 

[worldwatcher]

Judge must decide whether Heulmeisje's DNA will be released for journalistic investigation


(It's about her DNA, and so far the only the kinship research is in progress, but local media RTV Utrecht went to court to enter her SNP (DNA) profile for genetic genealogy ,to finally given her name back and family who was always wondering what happened, different times and very little to go on, her age was estimated older, then she really was..
So a match was more difficult, att
I think it's good that the local msm is going to court, where she is found..

Tbh, I it must be hunting

IIt can be a Breakthrough, I really hope so...

Rechter moet beslissen of dna Heulmeisje wordt vrijgegeven voor journalistiek onderzoek

 

[ZaZara]

Judge must decide whether Heulmeisje's DNA will be released for journalistic investigation


(It's about her DNA, and so far the only the kinship research is in progress, but local media RTV Utrecht went to court to enter her SNP (DNA) profile for genetic genealogy ,to finally given her name back and family who was always wondering what happened, different times and very little to go on, her age was estimated older, then she really was..
So a match was more difficult, att
I think it's good that the local msm is going to court, where she is found..

Tbh, I it must be hunting

IIt can be a Breakthrough, I really hope so...

Rechter moet beslissen of dna Heulmeisje wordt vrijgegeven voor journalistiek onderzoek

From the link above:

'The genetic material of the Heulmeisje is too degraded fot the creation of a comprehensive dna profile using current techniques, which can be used to search for relatives in commercial databases. But there will come a time when the technology has reached a point where it can be successful.’ This was claimed by dna expert Lex Meulenbroek of the Netherlands Forensic Institute (NFI) in a lawsuit filed by RTV Utrecht journalist Marc van Rossum du Chattel.

According to the NFI, a kinship investigation is now ongoing. The dna profile of the Heulmeisje will go to a database for missing persons. ‘That research is not going very well. It is old material that has partly degraded, but is still usable thanks to new techniques. This allows us to work with it anyway,’ according to Lex Meulenbroek. A search of the criminal database has been carried out, but it has yielded nothing.
According to Meulenbroek, in order to search for relatives in commercial databases, a more extensive dna profile has to be made than is currently available from the Heulmeisje. Such a so-called SNP profile requires ‘more high-quality source material’ and that is not available from the Heulmeisje. For that, her remains were already too degraded at the time. The NFI says it is waiting for further improvement of the technique to create such an SNP profile after all.

BBM

A database for missing persons ... for crying out loud. If the Heulmeisje was reported missing and if her family's DNA made it into the iFamila database, she would have been identified years ago. LE and NFI are just keeping themselves busy with a lot of hot air.
So I am #team Marc van Rossum du Chattel, the reporter who started the lawsuit. I do not expect that he will get the DNA, but it would be nice for a change if the Court decides (now or in the future) that the DNA should be upgraded by @othram for use in commercial databases.

 

[Melt71]

If the Heulmeisje was reported missing and if her family's DNA made it into the iFamila database, she would have been identified years ago. LE and NFI are just keeping themselves busy with a lot of hot air.
So I am #team Marc van Rossum du Chattel, the reporter who started the lawsuit. I do not expect that he will get the DNA, but it would be nice for a change if the Court decides (now or in the future) that the DNA should be upgraded by @othram for use in commercial databases.

Sadly in my experience, there are so many Interpol yellow notices (missing persons) that I think the backlog of getting DNA into iFamilia is going to take a long time to clear. Then there's also the matter of actually getting the DNA from the black notices (unidentified bodies) which often times require exhumation. Each different Interpol member country is responsible for samples from their own jurisdiction, so as you can imagine some are faster than others.

 

[Susikatze]

Sadly in my experience, there are so many Interpol yellow notices (missing persons) that I think the backlog of getting DNA into iFamilia is going to take a long time to clear. Then there's also the matter of actually getting the DNA from the black notices (unidentified bodies) which often times require exhumation. Each different Interpol member country is responsible for samples from their own jurisdiction, so as you can imagine some are faster than others.

theyre all 10 years behind on technology. Advanced US labs can extract viable DNA from degraded or contaminated samples. And comparing to a database for reported missing or criminals is basically what CODIS is in the US and we know how few UID are identified via CoDIS.
It is for European standards a step in the right direction but lagging behind dramatically. Sigh…

 

[Susikatze]

From the link above:

'The genetic material of the Heulmeisje is too degraded fot the creation of a comprehensive dna profile using current techniques, which can be used to search for relatives in commercial databases. But there will come a time when the technology has reached a point where it can be successful.’ This was claimed by dna expert Lex Meulenbroek of the Netherlands Forensic Institute (NFI) in a lawsuit filed by RTV Utrecht journalist Marc van Rossum du Chattel.

According to the NFI, a kinship investigation is now ongoing. The dna profile of the Heulmeisje will go to a database for missing persons. ‘That research is not going very well. It is old material that has partly degraded, but is still usable thanks to new techniques. This allows us to work with it anyway,’ according to Lex Meulenbroek. A search of the criminal database has been carried out, but it has yielded nothing.
According to Meulenbroek, in order to search for relatives in commercial databases, a more extensive dna profile has to be made than is currently available from the Heulmeisje. Such a so-called SNP profile requires ‘more high-quality source material’ and that is not available from the Heulmeisje. For that, her remains were already too degraded at the time. The NFI says it is waiting for further improvement of the technique to create such an SNP profile after all.

BBM

A database for missing persons ... for crying out loud. If the Heulmeisje was reported missing and if her family's DNA made it into the iFamila database, she would have been identified years ago. LE and NFI are just keeping themselves busy with a lot of hot air.
So I am #team Marc van Rossum du Chattel, the reporter who started the lawsuit. I do not expect that he will get the DNA, but it would be nice for a change if the Court decides (now or in the future) that the DNA should be upgraded by @othram for use in commercial databases.

Shame, there are labs overseas that can handle severely degraded DNA. No need for waiting but personality protection laws in Europe are preventing DNA from an UID being sent to an US company because.. she cant consent to it. Absurd,uh?

 

[Melt71]

theyre all 10 years behind on technology. Advanced US labs can extract viable DNA from degraded or contaminated samples. And comparing to a database for reported missing or criminals is basically what CODIS is in the US and we know how few UID are identified via CoDIS.
It is for European standards a step in the right direction but lagging behind dramatically. Sigh…

IME that's not the issue. Countries have labs that can do the work. But police are overworked and under-resourced. In my country some stations cover huge geographic regions. Police officers care deeply but sometimes the crime that is in front of them at the desk takes up all their time. It's so unfair - it's unfair on them and unfair on everyone involved in these older cases.

I worked on a case that took 20 months. From initially asking LE to take iFamilia samples through to the sample being in the queue at their state lab. But most of the 20 months was taken up with the paperwork and process (comms between family/state police/national Interpol office) to get to that point.

 

[worldwatcher]

(bummer..)

Heulmeisje's DNA will not be released for journalistic investigation

Maarn - The Public Prosecution Service (OM) and the Netherlands Forensic Institute (NFI) do not have to cooperate with an investigation by RTV Utrecht to discover the identity of the Heul girl. The Central Netherlands court ruled today that the parties do not have to provide the girl's DNA.

Dna van Heulmeisje wordt niet vrijgegeven voor journalistiek onderzoek

 

[ZaZara]

The outcome is as expected, but still, it is sad.
Hopefully, Marc van Rossum du Chattel continues his battle for the identification of our Heulmeisje.
She was about 15 years of age, almost 50 years ago. Chances that her parents are still alive are getting slimmer every year. They would be around 80 years of age now.

 

[ZaZara]

Interview with Marc van Rossum de Chattel about the history and developments in the case of het Heulmeisje.
The interview is in Dutch, but if you opt for subtitles, you can pick English as a language ~ the translation may be a bit strange at times though.