New Mackenzie Phillips Book Reveals Sexual Relationship With Her Father

bolded by me.

Does it seem obvious to anyone else that Genevieve Waite couldn't see past the end of her own nose? Blaming the child for being "overly familiar" with her father, when it was the father's abuse that caused the "over-familiarity"?

ITA. I do not think she would have been as jealous of MP as she obviously was had her hink meter not been going - she just chose to interpret her suspicion as a problem with MP (stepdaughter/competition), not her husband.

I can't weigh in on the veracity of this, but I do think that every time a celebrity comes out with things like this it might encourage others to come forward... and whenever that celebrity is attacked for doing so, it might force some other victim further into their closet.

And I have never been through anything like this, thank heavens, so I cannot comment on how she chose to reveal it. True, she's going to sell book copies off of it, but not to me, so I have no stake in that.

However, the form of GW's protests do seem to support MP's claims rather than refute them, IMO.
 
bolded by me.

Does it seem obvious to anyone else that Genevieve Waite couldn't see past the end of her own nose? Blaming the child for being "overly familiar" with her father, when it was the father's abuse that caused the "over-familiarity"?

It's also quite normal for a daughter to be jealous of the attention given to the stepmother by the father. God only knows how many other women were paraded through MP's life, but it's common for a daughter to become possessive of her father -- clingy, demanding, etc -- whenever a new woman is perceived to be "sharing" the father. We already know MP was raised without a lot of boundaries and she probably didn't receive counseling to help her through the transition every time her father brought home a new "mommy". I'll be her behavior was particularly dramatic and difficult. I still see no reason to believe the incest story.

IMO
 
I believe Mackenzie.

If Mackenzie had talked while her father was alive her father might never have spoken to her again. She needed his approval so badly she kept "their" secret. Children desperately think they need the love of even the most abusive of parents. The need doesn't stop because the children grow up. If the child wants to keep the parent in his or her life, the child has to keep the secret.

It doesn't mean that the "secret" hasn't been eating away at Mackenzie. Abused children blame themselves. Mackenzie wants to be accepted as she is. She's had to "pretend" most of her life that the abuse didn't happen.

jmo
I agree, but it's much more complicated than that. JP had an illustrious career, and people still buy and play his music.
Michelle still gets an income from them, so of course she doesn't want any clouds on her horizon. Michelle was a mistress to John while he was still married to MacKenzie's mother. She wasn't concerned about MacKenzie's future then, and she isn't now.

Many M&P fans are in denial. I was one of their fans myself. I believe MacKenzie. No one would make up a horrible story like that about their own father who also happens to be an icon in the music industry just to sell books.

I thik it's difficult enough for MacKenzie to tell, without some abusing her. It seems to me some want her to put that truth back in the closet.

I already read about John's drug abuse, so I'm not surprised that it went that far.

As for Mick Jagger, he tried her out himself, so if he has anything to say, he's going to make me retch.
 
Ok now I have a question. I have seen Mackenzie on Oprah, Entertainment Tonight, a morning show, People mag and of course the internet. How many interviews is she going to do about this? I kind of thought it was just Oprah, maybe a magazine but this is getting to be a little of an overload. Maybe her agent needs to tell her to slow down.
I disagree. This needs to be told. She's not the only incest survivor. She is giving other victims the courage to tell, that is, if the verbal abuse of her doesn't overpower the message.
 
I have been following this, not close, but I know the gist. Like most everyone else that I have heard talking about it, I am divided. Part of me thinks that even if this is a publicity stunt, it could turn out for the better and encourage more real victims to come forward.
And then, to me, it wouldn't matter that much, it would kind of cancel itself out in a way.

However, if it turns out that to be a stunt and it blows up in her face, it will be a major blow to the credibility of real incest victims everywhere.

As to whether or not it happened at all, I don't have an opinion. I just haven't decided yet.
 
So she's saying the incest began when she was 19 & lasted for 10 years? Did she give approx. dates & locations in any of the multitude of her interviews or do people have to buy the book to find that out?

I don't believe her & I don't have a special fondness for his music or really know who he is, nor do I care.

I'm just going with my gut instinct. I think she's had false memories. Been there. Done that. I've had false memories. I've also had real ones. The brain is a tricky thing, esp. when other factors come into play, like drugs, mental illness, therapy ...

I think something happened with someone and I think she's suffered a tremendous amount in her life due to drugs & mental illness. Without sounding harsh, I predict in another 10 years, she'll be telling the world her story was a pack of lies concocted by her publicist/lover to make money & that she didn't know any better b/c he/she was abusing her & injecting her w/ heroin every night. Ok, that sounds harsh. Sorry, but I've seen this before. I pity her but I don't believe her.
 
I disagree. This needs to be told. She's not the only incest survivor. She is giving other victims the courage to tell, that is, if the verbal abuse of her doesn't overpower the message.



Has she been verbally abused during the TV interviews? I haven't been able to watch much of the coverage so I'm just wondering who did the abusing, what did they say, etc.
 
So she's saying the incest began when she was 19 & lasted for 10 years? Did she give approx. dates & locations in any of the multitude of her interviews or do people have to buy the book to find that out?

I don't believe her & I don't have a special fondness for his music or really know who he is, nor do I care.

I'm just going with my gut instinct. I think she's had false memories. Been there. Done that. I've had false memories. I've also had real ones. The brain is a tricky thing, esp. when other factors come into play, like drugs, mental illness, therapy ...

I think something happened with someone and I think she's suffered a tremendous amount in her life due to drugs & mental illness. Without sounding harsh, I predict in another 10 years, she'll be telling the world her story was a pack of lies concocted by her publicist/lover to make money & that she didn't know any better b/c he/she was abusing her & injecting her w/ heroin every night. Ok, that sounds harsh. Sorry, but I've seen this before. I pity her but I don't believe her.

Her actual quote from the book is that when she was 19 she came to during a blackout (drug induced) and became aware that her father was having intercourse with her, whether it was the first time it occured she can't be sure but she knows it wasn't the only time.

I personally believe her. Her half sister says she told her this years ago while the father was alive. Dr. Drew says it was discussed during his work with her and he compares the father to a cult leader. The wifes could be completely unaware or simply unwilling to entertain the idea that they were married to someone capable of such acts.

I am curious where the people who were around them at the time are and if anyone will come to her defense. You can't do drugs to this degree, have an ongoing sexual relationship (MP goes on to describe the 10 years of consensual sex to involve doing drugs, blacking out, and waking up naked and her father beside her) and no one else on the tour be aware of this situation.
 
Jumping in late, even though Mac has been wasted for years, (claiming always to be straight) and she is going to sell books, I do believe her. I do not know why she has not come out earlier. I mean take a look at John and one only can believe it is true. He was a raving drug addict. I know his ex-wife is defending him but all kinds of stigma is involved in a story as such.

I did find those that are fans of the M & Papas choose not to believe her. Fans tend to stick to their idols. :crazy:

I think she should get the story out to cleanse herself.I do not know what I would do if I was in her position. I find the whole thing so distasteful, it is hard for me to even comment. I am not a fan of his music myself.

If not stated since I just jumped in, some radio stations want to ban playing their music yet compared it to playing James Brown, Spector, and MJ's. They said if they can play their music, why not the M & P's.

I sat on the fence before I decided to believe her. I think it went along with their lifestyle of free living and getting wasted. What a sick relationship. Much more will probably come out as the story unfolds.


Gozgals
 
So she's saying the incest began when she was 19 & lasted for 10 years? Did she give approx. dates & locations in any of the multitude of her interviews or do people have to buy the book to find that out?

I don't believe her & I don't have a special fondness for his music or really know who he is, nor do I care.

I'm just going with my gut instinct. I think she's had false memories. Been there. Done that. I've had false memories. I've also had real ones. The brain is a tricky thing, esp. when other factors come into play, like drugs, mental illness, therapy ...

I think something happened with someone and I think she's suffered a tremendous amount in her life due to drugs & mental illness. Without sounding harsh, I predict in another 10 years, she'll be telling the world her story was a pack of lies concocted by her publicist/lover to make money & that she didn't know any better b/c he/she was abusing her & injecting her w/ heroin every night. Ok, that sounds harsh. Sorry, but I've seen this before. I pity her but I don't believe her.

LadyL - the GMA interview w/Al R. I think it was, she stated that it wasn't 10 years of consensual sex. It began with a "rape or molestation" (her words) at 18 (?), then several years of waking up from drug binges "disheveled" and unsure of what happened, then about two years of something consensual....a far cry, for me, from what is being touted in the media. It ended when she became pregnant and was unsure of who the father was. Also, he became interested in Michelle Phillips when she was a TEENAGER. She was 18 when they married, he was 27. If that doesn't establish motive, I can't imagine what would. And she is one of the ones who refuses to believe. JP threw the mother of his two children over for a teenager. :waitasec:

You might be right about 10 years from now. Abuse victims frequently recant their stories, for more reasons than that it is untrue. I would rather err on the side of caution and believe her.

Also, something she said in one of the GMA interviews was that the outpouring of support from incest victims had been overwhelming, in the ONE DAY since the book had been released. That tells me a whole lot of people are really happy she is dragging this skeleton out of the closet and into the light, whether they believe her or not. She stated she supposed the good that will come out of this is that maybe she can become a public voice for all these disenfranchised people. I, for one, say "Thank you Mackenzie!".
 
This really hasn't changed my feelings about listening to The Mamas & The Papas. At the same time, even though I believe her it does not make me interested in buying the album of her with her father that will be released unless I hear it and like it. As far as Mick goes, every time I've heard that story I thought that her father had set it up with Mick. It was just, what did someone call it, my hink radar?

I noticed last night while scrolling through upcoming programs that there was one with the name Mackenzie in it and another called California Dreamin'. I wonder if that's a coincidence.
 
You are correct about abuse victims recanting their testimonies/statements. Mostly because they realized that they've opened a Pandora's box and can't handle it, not because they lied. I really hope she doesn't do that.
 
You are correct about abuse victims recanting their testimonies/statements. Mostly because they realized that they've opened a Pandora's box and can't handle it, not because they lied. I really hope she doesn't do that.

Maybe that's why she did it so publicly - so she couldn't just recant it this time.
 
Maybe that's why she did it so publicly - so she couldn't just recant it this time.

Well, if she were really doing it for publicity then she could recant it and have a whole other story about false memories or any other scenario. Still, I believe her at this point.
 
The skepticism of MacKenzie's story, as evidenced on this thread, let alone by family members, is one of the main reasons victims of this type of abuse don't come forward with it, right?

I personally have known two different women who were sexually abused by their own father. In both cases the father was already dead when the friend shared the information with me.

In one case, the woman was a relative-by-marriage. I had known the father and considered him to be an a$$hole, but had no idea anything like this was going on. He was an alcoholic and eventually committed suicide. This woman told me that her mother knew what was going on at the time. That whn she began to get her periods her mother said to her father "You better stop this, you'll get her pregnant!" And I knew the mother also. I had a hard time dealing with the idea that the mother knew, but I had no reason to disbelieve the young woman's story. I have since learned that there are many cases where victims claim the mother knew what was going on and was unable to stop it but did not, for whatever reason, leave the father.

In the second case, it was an adoptive father - not that that makes any difference. She was adopted as an infant. Father sexually abused her throughout childhood. She grew up. Many, many years later she said that one night she visited her father (mother was dead by now) and the two of them got "very drunk" and she "passed out" and later awoke with dad naked in bed beside her!

So I guess these old perverts don't change over the years.

I wish MacKenzie the best in dealing with her life from here on. She is still a relatively young woman and it sounds like she is on the right track towards healing herself.
 
Nothing like getting rich by exposing the worst things you ever did in your life. Isn't that sort of like getting rewarded for bad behavior?
 
I do not know if she is telling the truth or not about the 10 year 'relationship' with her dad. I just am uneasy with her making these accusations after her dad is dead and cannot speak for himself. Why does she feel it necessary 'to tell the world' in order to heal? This revelation is sure to devastate the family and loved ones of both of them.

However, this is sure to sell a great many copies of her book. How many of us (or the public in general) would have noticed that MP had even written a book, if not for the shock value of this incident?

Well said. Thanks for saving me the keystrokes.
 
The skepticism is about the book tour and the credibility of the source, not the story itself, as I don't know anything about her father or family dynamics, except what's been posted here.

Lots of people work through abuse issues in therapy w/o sharing with everyone on the planet. It's not necessary to go public as part of the therapy. I understand that sharing with certain sympathetic family members or close friends can be helpful. I also understand the stigma and that denial & even disowning are common reactions from family members b/c I've experienced that personally.

I 'get' the not feeling safe while they're still alive thing, I really do. Yet, she speaks warmly of him & defends him now that he's dead? I don't get that. Now is the time she can feel safe enough to let her conflicting feelings go & really register the anger. Now is the time she doesn't have to worry about seeing him at a family reunion. I think her defense of his character after completely destroying his character is self-serving because if you're that ambivalent, then you're really not at a point that you should be sharing with the world are you?

I'm a bit confused by the details ... she doesn't seem to know herself whether she was a victim of rape (after waking up from a blackout) or a consensual incest participant. She's not sure b/c she was wasted? Well, apparently, so was he. Who's to say he wasn't molested by her while he was in a blackout? Is that outrageous to suggest as a possibility only for the fact that he's a man & she's a woman? Who's to say she didn't have an unhealthy fixation on him b/c of mental illness, drugs etc. and that he resisted her attempts and now, after his death, she has made up some of these memories b/c that's how she wanted it to be?

Is it impossible to speculate that she may be mentally unstable enough to skew this story and its details?

Unfortunately, I've seen what false accusations by mentally ill people can do to a person's life. Her father is dead, cannot defend himself and now his name is permanently sullied, despite what the truth may or may not be.

Anyway, I'm not blaming the victim. I don't believe there was a victim. Like I said, my gut instinct is too strong to ignore. I respect everyone's opinions and respectfully maintain mine.
 
True or not? Who knows. IMO, MP is messed up enough of a person to make this up. On the other hand, IMO, MP and JP were both messed up enough to make this true. Either way, this is messed up.

True or not, this revelation is the difference between millions of dollars in book sales.
 
The skepticism of MacKenzie's story, as evidenced on this thread, let alone by family members, is one of the main reasons victims of this type of abuse don't come forward with it, right?

I personally have known two different women who were sexually abused by their own father. In both cases the father was already dead when the friend shared the information with me.

In one case, the woman was a relative-by-marriage. I had known the father and considered him to be an a$$hole, but had no idea anything like this was going on. He was an alcoholic and eventually committed suicide. This woman told me that her mother knew what was going on at the time. That whn she began to get her periods her mother said to her father "You better stop this, you'll get her pregnant!" And I knew the mother also. I had a hard time dealing with the idea that the mother knew, but I had no reason to disbelieve the young woman's story. I have since learned that there are many cases where victims claim the mother knew what was going on and was unable to stop it but did not, for whatever reason, leave the father.

In the second case, it was an adoptive father - not that that makes any difference. She was adopted as an infant. Father sexually abused her throughout childhood. She grew up. Many, many years later she said that one night she visited her father (mother was dead by now) and the two of them got "very drunk" and she "passed out" and later awoke with dad naked in bed beside her!

So I guess these old perverts don't change over the years.

I wish MacKenzie the best in dealing with her life from here on. She is still a relatively young woman and it sounds like she is on the right track towards healing herself.

but there's a difference bewteen consensual incest and sexual abuse of a minor

I, too, was sexually abused by an adoptive family member as a child
 

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