GUILTY New Zealand - Dr. Lauren Dickason, 40, charged w/killing her 3 young daughters, Timaru, 16 Sep 2021

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  • #261
Per the trial she was originally taking these two meds before she stopped taking them before the murder.

Cipramil also known as Celexa. This is used to treat depression and off label use to treat anxiety.

Trepiline also known as Amitriptyline. This is an older tricyclic drug. It treats low mood, depression, some types of pain (nerve), and helps prevent migraines.
 
  • #262
Has there been testimony from a psychiatrist (?) discussing the possible effects of going off those medications? Did she not taper off?

I don't know how big a role going off medications played in what happened -- but perhaps was part of it all. JMO.
 
  • #263
Just a thought, if she’s released, how could it ever be assured that “insanity” wouldn’t randomly strike again?
 
  • #264
Reading the tweets from the trial, it seems clear that the nature of her phone records has been taken slightly out of context. There was a lot of nice, normal messages about her children, and her life. It wasn't all bad for her. There was some problem in the translation of some of the messages by the NZ police too, which the relevant expert says might have affected hundreds of the messages. That is not good enough. Her husband, during cross examination, recanted his claim that she was not a nuturing mother. This statement had been made in the middle of the night, on the worst day of his life, the defence stated.

However, the search's on her phone about poisoning children, shudders! Context and translation problems aside, there seems to be so much from her about harming these children. Somehow, it seems that every single person thought she was just letting off steam with her talk about killing and cutting femoral arteries, and giving the little girls a "good hiding" when they acted out.We all expect Mother's to just somehow cope, don't we? It almost seemed like just a question of time for these little ones, just tragic.
 
  • #265
Gosh, what a tragic case. Those poor children.
I cannot imagine a planet upon which my family - especially my husband- and friends would think I was just letting off steam (to quote you, minusfour, as that is how it seemed to me too) if I was sending those kinds of texts about my children. Especially if I had prior mental health episodes.

Reading through the tweets from the trial, those texts seem to me as such a cry for help. Not that it in anyway excuses their horrific murder.

Rest in peace, angels.
 
  • #266
minusfour said:
There was some problem in the translation of some of the messages by the NZ police too, which the relevant expert says might have affected hundreds of the messages.
Click to expand...

Translation? From what language to what language?
 
  • #267
  • #268
silvercrown said:
Gosh, what a tragic case. Those poor children.
I cannot imagine a planet upon which my family - especially my husband- and friends would think I was just letting off steam (to quote you, minusfour, as that is how it seemed to me too) if I was sending those kinds of texts about my children. Especially if I had prior mental health episodes.

Reading through the tweets from the trial, those texts seem to me as such a cry for help. Not that it in anyway excuses their horrific murder.

Rest in peace, angels.
Click to expand...
I believe it was a cry of help too. Her husband, a doctor, didn't think things were getting worse? She let friends know too, how she was feeling. Everyone let her down it seems. Mental health greatly needs to be better understood. She resented those precious girls. Maybe if she hadn't stopped her meds and got better mental health help this may not have happened.
 
  • #269
HinterlandObserver said:
Just a thought, if she’s released, how could it ever be assured that “insanity” wouldn’t randomly strike again?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure she will ever be released. If she is, that could possibly happen if she doesn't stay under mental health care.
Imo
 
  • #270
iamshadow21 said:
Afrikaans to English.
Click to expand...
They speak Afrikaans as a first language?
From their names, I would have presumed English would be their first language.
Usually Afrikaans have Dutch sounding first names and surnames.
But hey, there must be some exceptions to the rule.
 
  • #271
cjm11 said:
Cipramil also known as Celexa. This is used to treat depression and off label use to treat anxiety.

Trepiline also known as Amitriptyline. This is an older tricyclic drug. It treats low mood, depression, some types of pain (nerve), and helps prevent migraines.
Click to expand...

I don't think these are very heavy or severe medications, the cipramil especially is one of the first ones prescribed by a doctor for depression/anxiety.

I think she needed something a lot stronger, even anti-psychotic medication, but, alas, I do think she was hiding a lot of her real thoughts and feelings.
 
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  • #272
annpats said:
They speak Afrikaans as a first language?
From their names, I would have presumed English would be their first language.
Usually Afrikaans have Dutch sounding first names and surnames.
But hey, there must be some exceptions to the rule.
Click to expand...
It's from the liveblog of the trial, I'm sorry, I don't know if there's a way to link to the specific bit, so I'll link to the liveblog and just quote and hopefully, that's good enough.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz www.stuff.co.nz

Today 08:56 am
Jessica McCarthy
Context of messages missing says Defence

Mitchell was then cross examined by Lauren’s lawyer Anne Toohey about the messages.

He confirmed he used Google translate to translate some of the messages from Afrikaans into English during the early stages of the phone analysis.

Also, speaking just from personal experience (boyfriend in high school whose mum was South African of Dutch extraction) I think many Afrikaans speakers are bilingual English speakers, too. My boyfriend visited SA when he was sixteen and had no trouble conversing with his relatives there, despite him not speaking Afrikaans.

MOO
 
  • #273
iamshadow21 said:
Also, speaking just from personal experience (boyfriend in high school whose mum was South African of Dutch extraction) I think many Afrikaans speakers are bilingual English speakers, too. My boyfriend visited SA when he was sixteen and had no trouble conversing with his relatives there, despite him not speaking Afrikaans.
Click to expand...
Oh, sure, I'm not doubting it. I'm just surprised Afrikaans was their 1st language, as "Graham & Lauren Dickason" sounds so English.
But there must be all manner of mixes of language and people in South Africa, not including all the other tribal languages and ethnic origins.
 
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  • #274
annpats said:
Oh, sure, I'm not doubting it. I'm just surprised Afrikaans was their 1st language, as "Graham & Lauren Dickason" sounds so English.
But there must be all manner of mixes of language and people in South Africa, not including all the other languages and ethnic origins.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a friend of my partner who lives in SA, all three of her (very white) kids speak both English and Xhosa fluently because of firstly their nanny and secondly their playmates in their community and at kindergarten/preschool. Which she is thrilled about, because her own Xhosa is more well meaning and enthusiastic than any kind of fluent, despite her attempts to get better at it. It is a multilingual society.

MOO
 
  • #275
iamshadow21 said:
Yeah, a friend of my partner who lives in SA, all three of her (very white) kids speak both English and Xhosa fluently because of firstly their nanny and secondly their playmates in their community and at kindergarten/preschool. Which she is thrilled about, because her own Xhosa is more well meaning and enthusiastic than any kind of fluent, despite her attempts to get better at it. It is a multilingual society.

MOO
Click to expand...
Oh wow! Xhosa is the language with all the 'clicks' in it, no?
How awesome is that.
 
  • #276
annpats said:
Oh wow! Xhosa is the language with all the 'clicks' in it, no?
How awesome is that.
Click to expand...
It is, it is a beautiful language with a lot of percussives that we just don't have in English.

My grandmother was a self-taught languages savant, who spoke at least eight languages fluently, maybe a dozen more well enough to get by on a holiday. She taught herself from books and records.

Whereas I can only speak one. Some people just have the ear for it.

But yes, to bring this vaguely back to the case, I think it's fairly common in SA for people to be at least conversational in more than one language. It makes sense, given the multicultural, multilinguistic nature of the country.

MOO
 
  • #277
  • #278
  • #279
  • #280
Just a few things from the trial:

She didn't feel instantaneous love for the girls. She tried her best to be a good mom. The girls preferred dad over mom and I think this really got her. The kids wouldn't listen to her. They would throw things at her, even a bowl of cereal with milk.

She stopped taking her meds before they moved to NZ. I don't think she saw a psychiatrist in NZ either or restarted her meds. The day before she killed the kids, immigration asked for a letter from her previous psychiatrist.

Thinking thoughts of harming the kids was a new feeling she didn't have with post partum depression. She snapped when the kids became out of control and wouldn't listen. She went to the garage and got cable ties. She then explains how she killed the girls. I don't feel comfortable putting it here.

130 000 total messages were reviewed. 1200 were relevant.

Her husband is her rock. She has spoken before that she couldn't have alone time with him as there would always be a kid there.

She thought they "made a very bad decision by moving".

In South Africa they had a large back garden with a trampoline and jungle gym and things were nice. The were in quarantine I believe before they moved when living with his mother. Also in quarantine when the arrived in NZ. House was small and they got out one hour a day. Meals were delivered to their door. In SA she became paranoid as a result of the riots and looting in her home country. I read she told the oldest they couldn't go to the toy store because of bad people.
 
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