GUILTY New Zealand - Dr. Lauren Dickason, 40, charged w/killing her 3 young daughters, Timaru, 16 Sep 2021

  • #601
July '24
'Justice Cameron Mander last Wednesday said her mental health issues were a factor in her not being locked up for life.

He said the 'systematic and methodical' approach to the brutal murders reflected Dickason's belief that the girls were 'better off dead'.

"Systematic and methodical approach" almost hints at her conditions. If anyone asks AI to find what two conditions in women are linked to systematic thinking, the results will pop up.
 
  • #602
I really don’t know where I stand with this one. I am generally sympathetic when mothers experience significant psychiatric illness and kill their children for genuinely altruistic but distorted beliefs (need to save them).
I do believe that Lauren has mental illness but think perhaps she killed to save herself rather than save her children. I think she was experiencing severe depression and couldn’t see a way out and decided to blot it all out and thought the children were better off dying than living without her.
Will be watching space re appeal.

- I think she had serious mental illness, for a long time
- I suspect it was way more than just depression
- IMHO, Lauren's perfectionism didn't help her treatment. She understood that she felt unwell, but any diagnosis would have made her less than perfect, in her own eyes - JMO. So, her insight into her condition was poor to start with, and stopping the medication to emigrate to NZ would have exacerbated things
- ideally, not just citalopram or ciratopram and whatever else, but intensive therapy was mandatory. Not sure she could have gotten it in SA. But, she can still benefit from it
- I am concerned about her high risk for suicide
- she is a doctor, so any "helper's" role for adults during her imprisonment/treatment might help
 
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  • #603
She may be eligible for parole in 6 years, and if so then what? Will she be deported back to South Africa? I can't see New Zealand wanting to keep her at their expense for any longer than they have to.

After parole, they should keep her wherever her risk of self-harm would be lower. Would it be SA, where she will have support of her family and friends, but also, all memories? Or would it be NZ, maybe not Timaru, but some other place, where she could get some peace by helping others? Everything needs to be taken into account.
 
  • #604
  • #605
" a win for mental health". No .. No this is not a win for anyone or anything.
 
  • #606
  • #607
Ugh, her message is so self-serving. No hint of... understanding the reality. Let's remember her oldest daughter literally begged for her life.
 
  • #608
After parole, they should keep her wherever her risk of self-harm would be lower. Would it be SA, where she will have support of her family and friends, but also, all memories? Or would it be NZ, maybe not Timaru, but some other place, where she could get some peace by helping others? Everything needs to be taken into account.
I’d prefer to see her sent back to South Africa.
Keeping her here serves no useful purpose, just cost the country many more dollars, i think she has already had hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal aid.
 
  • #609
  • #610
  • #611
Those who follow the thread: no matter how we feel about Lauren Dickason, too many things are obscure to us. I wonder if "diagnosed with infertility" means "another medical condition known to cause infertility", or simply "eighteen failed IVFs point at infertility".

I don't know Lauren's diagnosis. I only know that some diseases may cause physical + mental problems + infertility (lupus instantly comes to mind. Other conditions can do it too).

Perhaps, since she is in a mental facility, a thorough diagnosis of Lauren's mental and physical condition is warranted.

It won't be of a help for the dead girls. It may not be a consolation to Lauren. (Although it may help shorten her prison term.)

However, better answers could help medicine in general, and to some other women struggling from similar condition. Or even contribute into the treatment of mental illness.

As to doctor Graham Dickason, he deserves peace. May he leave this sad phase of his life behind and get happiness and whatever he wants for himself in life.

I don't understand the logic behind a woman going through 18 failed IVFs plus a failed pregnancy while adoption is an option. IVFs could have been Lauren's own rigid choice. But, her mental state must have taken a hit after her fertility path. So may this story be a teaching one to IVF doctors. It is a rapidly growing area, and more humanity could help.
 
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  • #612
I don’t honestly find her a sympathetic character. But I do know mental illness and psychosis and do know that the brain can send someone messages that don’t make sense to others but they make absolute sense to that person. This woman is going to do her time extremely tough as she is a very long way from any friends and family. AFAIK she’s completely alone in NZ. And as she gets well she is going to be forever living with what she has done, no matter her sentence. So I think she has her punish,ent.
 
  • #613
don't understand the logic behind a woman going through 18 failed IVFs plus a failed pregnancy while adoption is an option

People want to try to have their own baby. This is a very emotional and personal theme. It's also a biological drive for some, not logical. And a miscarriage is one of the cruelest shattered hopes.

Something else that's heartbreaking is when an adoption falls through. The birth mother changes her mind at the very end, perhaps. I have heard of people showing up for their baby they hoped to adopt only to find out the birth mother changed her mind and then having that happen a 2nd time and a 3rd. Sometimes adoption is impossible.

The children in this case were really wanted, but IMO it seems between stress, burnout, moving to a new country, isolation, and mental illness she reached a breaking point. She could have asked for help, though.
 
  • #614
rbbm
''After losing his daughters, Graham returned to South Africa. His mother, Bettie, told YOU in 2024 that he stayed with her for a time in Pretoria as he tried to find his footing again.

“I didn’t know how to support Graham,” Bettie said then. “He is the one who kept all of us upright.”

Slowly, painfully, those close to him began to see signs of healing. Month by month, Graham started standing taller again, even if the scars never faded.

Now, his family is simply relieved that he has found love again after such a devastating loss. It’s not a fairytale ending, and it was never going to be. But after everything, it’s a reminder that even the most broken lives can still find space for hope.''
 
  • #615
During my medical professional career, I always preached to coworkers not to expect reasonable response or behavior from someone who has lost all reason. It truly does not compute in those broken synapses. To expect more is futile and frustrating for everybody and will accomplish nothing. That said, I cannot find any grace or pity for this woman. Should she have killed her husband instead perhaps I could accept the act of a broken mind. But this was her babies. All of her babies. The babies who loved and trusted their mamma before anyone/everyone else. To me, her act was Evil, pure and simple. I wish her no absolution, no peace and no rest. Maybe that makes me evil as well. Those babies, her babies, weren't and they died at their mamma's hands. Many mammas suffer mental crisis and never harm their babies even during their worst breaks with reality. Crimes against children, especially your own, is and will always be intolerable to me.

Okay, getting off the soapbox now.
 
  • #616
I hope her husband has found peace and happiness.
I hope so too, but I hope if his new wife comes to him and confesses she fears she might end their children’s’ lives, this time his response to her won’t be to “take a bath.”

I’m sorry and I know this is gonna be an unpopular opinion, but I just have a hard time finding a lot of sympathy for him when, during his testimony, he talked about two occasions where she literally confessed her fears to him that she was having thoughts of killing their kids and on both occasions, his response was to suggest she take a bath to relax. I feel he has some responsibility in this devastating outcome as well.
 
  • #617
I hope so too, but I hope if his new wife comes to him and confesses she fears she might end their children’s’ lives, this time his response to her won’t be to “take a bath.”

I’m sorry and I know this is gonna be an unpopular opinion, but I just have a hard time finding a lot of sympathy for him when, during his testimony, he talked about two occasions where she literally confessed her fears to him that she was having thoughts of killing their kids and on both occasions, his response was to suggest she take a bath to relax. I feel he has some responsibility in this devastating outcome as well.

I don’t know what their relationship was. These girls were Graham’s biological daughters, it was Lauren who had to use donors’ eggs. I know several families who are in a horrible shape because of several failed IVFs, and yet when I ask why they can’t consider adopting, I sometimes hear from the guys that they want to raise, “own genes”, or such. So I always wonder if men could be more of the driving force behind these horrible multiple IVF trails.

And we all know that medications used for IVF can, and very easily, do cause severe mood swings. And then the Dickasons had that pregnancy that they lost at 18 weeks, and Lauren held her dead baby, Sarah. After that she was diagnosed with PTSD and postnatal depression. She never returned to work as an independent pediatrician, but assisted Graham in his clinic part-time. I suspect she emotionally broke there.

And then Lauren had three children, and was very depressed during her pregnancy with the twins. It seems to me that her body was whipped into this endless baby-producing mode, and whatever happened with her brain, everyone brushed aside. Graham had a well-paid job, and Lauren had a nanny, but only part-time because of the COVID. I think she was physically exhausted and overwhelmed.

And yes, when she decided to get off meds to emigrate, and wrote in her diary that she had homicidal urges, he told her to get a grip. He is a doctor, he can’t say that he didn’t understand.

I think that the relationship was going down the drain, but Graham had the way out, his job, and Lauren had only the house with three kids.

This being said, I can’t blame Graham either, because I think that Lauren was a difficult, “heavy”, “rigid” person to live with. Maybe he wasn’t present in the relationship because it was so much aimed at having babies.

We can just learn that: 1) all women have mood swings during different phases of their cycle, and it is to be expected; 2) women’s bodies are not baby-making machines and even if one views his wife as the incubator, he has to acknowledge that all phases, getting pregnant, pregnancy, delivery, postnatal period, breastfeeding - are hard on a woman’s body. That you can say, “we just had a child”, but it is all on her; 3) that women’s ability to control fertility comes at a harsh price, as birth control pills often affects the mood; 4) while these days women luckily can have equal, well, paid jobs, this part, children, is still largely on them.

IMHO, female biology has to be respected. This tale will eventually enter history as not that of “an evil mom”. There are too many victims here. And too many doctors, starting with IVF specialists, either made a mistake or perhaps were trying to be too nice to colleagues.
 

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