Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest* #2

[legal.beagle]

"Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield questions the witness about a previous time she met the accused to have sex.

She said that encounter was normal compared to the second one, where she claims she feared for her life.

"You don't say in your messages [the next day] that you couldn't breathe and you were concerned that you might die, that you were panicked and scared," he said to her.

"Yes, I didn't say that," the woman replied.

"So why not say: 'You nearly killed me last night?'" Mansfield asked.

"I'd already said that to him in person, and I was scared of him ... I didn't want to make him angry," she said.


Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield continues his cross-examination.

He questioned why the witness engaged the accused in conversation after the date where she claims she feared for her life, asking him what he was doing and whether he wanted to see her.

"If you really were horrified and fearful, why would you ask that: 'Do you want to see me?' Why not just say 'I'm angry and I don't want to see you again'."

The woman said she wanted to keep the messages friendly because she was fearful.

"I know it doesn't sound like it, but I had no intention of meeting up with him. I was scared of him, I didn't want him showing up in my life. I didn't believe he would just disappear," she told the jury.

"Why did you not just say that thing that you did to me - '[you] really scared me' - if that is in fact what happened?" Mansfield asked her.

"I didn't want to bring it up again. It's the feeling I got when he said: 'You don't think I did that on purpose do you?'. It was like nothing had even happened," she said."

 

[legal.beagle]

FYI this info is obviously a bit late, but for anyone interested out of NZ to get more of an understanding of the Waitakere's - this is apparently (according to one of the news articles) roughly where the accused's cell phone was tracked to in the waitaks during initial investigations.

Google maps

 

[sunnynz]

FYI this info is obviously a bit late, but for anyone interested out of NZ to get more of an understanding of the Waitakere's - this is apparently (according to one of the news articles) roughly where the accused's cell phone was tracked to in the waitaks during initial investigations.

Google maps

Interesting. There are more remote parts of scenic drive that he could have gone to. There are quite a few houses on this stretch whereas some stretches of that road have no houses for ages. I’m building an impression of this guy that he’s not the smartest.

 

[legal.beagle]

Interesting. There are more remote parts of scenic drive that he could have gone to. There are quite a few houses on this stretch whereas some stretches of that road have no houses for ages. I’m building an impression of this guy that he’s not the smartest.

Absolutely, my thoughts completely. Much more remote areas closer toward Piha and what not. He literally (apparently) parked his car right there where the stop off gravel part to the side of the road and just walked a few metres in. Definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed by the seems of it.

 

[Mariposa]

From the testimony of the woman who says he basically suffocated her
Grace Millane trial: Woman 'couldn't move my arms or breathe' in previous date with accused
She said the man accused her of not liking him or wanting to be with him "over and over again".

"I really wanted to leave but it was a hotel and I didn't know if I went out of the room and screamed if anyone was on the floor.

"If I ran out I would have to wait for an elevator so I stayed and tried to be like, 'I have to leave now I better get going'."

She said the man kept saying she didn't want him, telling her he should kill himself, before going to the bathroom and emerging complaining about pain.

"I just briskly walked out and said I was going to call an ambulance. I went out and left and thankfully he didn't follow me."

 

[jamjim]

Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield continues to press the witness, going through over 700 messages she exchanged with the accused after the events of their encounter.

The messages depict two people discussing the events of their respective days, discussing a potential relationship and possible plans to meet up.

Mansfield said these messages were proof of the witness' desire to pursue a man she liked.

The witness maintained consistently and repeatedly under questioning that she only continued to contact him because she was scared of him and didn't want him to "show up" in her life.

"People who are like that just don't disappear," she told the court.

She admitted there was no direct threat from the accused but maintained she never planned to meet up with him after their "terrifying" earlier date and was only leading him on.

"I'm not here trying to justify myself," she said.

"I don't want to be here [in court] ... because I was so embarrassed and ashamed that I put myself in a position that almost took my life," she said.

To that, Mansfield replied: "Can I suggest, this is just drama to justify the relationship with the accused."

Grace Millane murder trial: Woman recalls 'terrifying' date with alleged killer

 

[jamjim]

3 hours ago

The court has adjourned for the day.

Defence lawyer Ron Mansfield did not finish his cross-examination after nearly three hours of questioning the witness about her 708 messages with the accused between November 2 and December 3, 2018.

The cross-examination will continue at 10am tomorrow morning.

Grace Millane murder trial: Woman recalls 'terrifying' date with alleged killer

 

[jamjim]

The more you hear about this guy, the worse it gets. Totally agree @sunnynz, he would have taken Grace to The Mexican Cafe to show off that he was on a date with another girl.

 

[jamjim]

5.10pm

As the courtroom clock moved past 5pm today lawyer Ron Mansfield said he had about 30-40 more minutes of questions for the witness.

"That might be a suitable time, Sir," he told Justice Simon Moore, prompting the court to adjourn for the day.

"Oh my God, I'm not coming back!" the witness cried, burying her head in her hands.


The trial will resume tomorrow at 10am.

Grace Millane murder trial: Tinder matches tell of 'rough sex' discussions with accused

 

[jamjim]

"4.15pm

The cross-examination of the third woman who went on a Tinder date with the accused before he met Millane has continued.

Mansfield, one of the alleged killer's lawyers, said his client messaged the woman intending to move on after their date in November 2018.

"I'm going to leave it here, I wish you all the best. Thank you x," part of the message read.

But Mansfield wondered if the woman still wanted to continue a relationship as he continued reading some of the more than 700 messages between the pair.

"I don't like messaging I don't have time for it," the woman texted the accused.

"Messaging annoys me haha but okay I understand, I'll use your line, you do you.

"I don't even text my parents back.

"Why give up so easily?"

Despite the messages, the woman told the court she didn't want the accused in her life and was just "leading him on".

Further conversations between the pair continued, including the woman asking the accused "did you want to hang this weekend?"

But she said the messages were all a lie."

...

 

[jamjim]

"I don't want to be here, putting my life out there, saying all these things. It's embarrassing," she told the court.

"I don't want to be here telling my horrific story in front of all you people."

But what she says the accused did to her during their date on November 2 was the truth.

"You can't take that away from me," she told Mansfield.

But Mansfield continued and produced messages from November 8 where the woman asked if the accused was on the social media channel SnapChat.

"Then I could send you pictures throughout the day so you know what I'm up to ," she said.

"You think I don't want you but that is totally not true," another read.

 

[jamjim]

"3.00pm

Earlier, the woman told the court she never wanted to see the man again after fearing for her life during a sexual encounter in November last year.

However, Mansfield questioned the woman as their text history is revealed.

"You didn't say in your messages did you that you couldn't breathe and that you might die and you were panicked and scared?" Mansfield asked.

The woman replied: "I'm scared of him, I didn't want him just showing up because he knew a lot of the activities that I did ... I didn't want to make him angry."

The witness said she continued to text and call the accused after the incident because she "didn't want to upset him. I didn't know what I was thinking".

One message she sent to the accused read: "Do you want to see me?"

Another asked: "Plans today?"

...

 

[jamjim]

Mansfield said a further message from the woman on November 3 read: "I'm fine, just wanted to talk x."

"Don't you think it's odd to send that sort of message to someone, who you claim now, was trying to kill you?" Mansfield asked.

A further series of messages between the pair appeared to show an amicable relationship between them, the lawyer said.

"You've taken me on a rollercoaster of emotions haha," the woman said.

"Haha yep, so do you want me?" the accused replied.

"If you agree to be always honest with me, then yes!" she said.

Grace Millane murder trial: Tinder matches tell of 'rough sex' discussions with accused

 

[jamjim]

Grace Millane murder accused 'suffocated a student during sex'

 

[Mariposa]

This cross examination of this witness sounds brutal beyond belief.
Yes Mister Mansfield who would believe your dear name-protected client would ever harm a woman during sex (with near asphyxiation), you know, the same client who was stuffing another woman he claims he just had sex with (and somehow ended up asphyxiated) into a suitcase about 1 month later?

hoping this jury sees through the cruel tactics is all I can say

 

[jaejae]

Another recent report from the Guardian:

Grace Millane trial: witness says she feared she would die during sex with suspect | New Zealand | The Guardian

One from the Daily Mail:

Tinder date of man accused of Grace Millane murder said she feared for her life during sex with him | Daily Mail Online

Not a very nice subject of course but here is a report from the Daily Mirror:

Grace Millane 'murderer' 'almost killed another woman who played dead to escape'

One from the Sun:

Grace Millane – another Tinder date ‘feared she’d die’ after Brit’s ‘killer tried to suffocate her during sex’

 

[RubyLee87]

This witness has gone through a terrifying ordeal and is being treated as if she’s the one on trial. I know the defence lawyer has a job to do but it still makes me angry with the court system. I’m not surprised that she didn’t confront him about what he did to her. She was clearly frightened of him and was trying to placate him. These stories reveal a lot about the defendant’s tactics. I wonder if this was a fantasy of his (choking a woman to death) and he was using Tinder to test the water with others before he worked up the nerve to kill Grace

 

[jamjim]

Apologies if this has been posted before, but this website has been created specifically to highlight how many women have died during what their killers claim was 'consensual sex gone wrong'. It's jaw-dropping.

We Can't Consent To This

 

[sunnynz]

This witness has gone through a terrifying ordeal and is being treated as if she’s the one on trial. I know the defence lawyer has a job to do but it still makes me angry with the court system. I’m not surprised that she didn’t confront him about what he did to her. She was clearly frightened of him and was trying to placate him. These stories reveal a lot about the defendant’s tactics. I wonder if this was a fantasy of his (choking a woman to death) and he was using Tinder to test the water with others before he worked up the nerve to kill Grace

It’s disgusting. I get the tactic from the lawyer and it’s probably quite effective but still reprehensible.

I was trying to put myself in this previous date’s shoes and while I don’t think I would have carried on the communication with him as long as she did, I totally get why she didn’t confront him. I don’t think I would have in reality either at that age and stage of life.

 

[Sarahlou]

I understand why the previous date acted like that. I also think it's disgusting how harsh they are treating her. Is it any wonder if women are reluctant to give evidence against assaults if they are made to feel like the one in the wrong?