Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest* #2

[sunnynz]

When the detective met the accused in the crown plaza hotel - and then subsequently went down to the food court to interview him - I assume that the crown plaza was the accused’s place of work? Is the footage from the police interview also from that day? The accused is wearing a white shirt and black waistcoat that certainly looks like a hotel uniform. Either that or he has terrible dress sense.

By the way, I feel like it would be handy to have a nickname for him rather than typing out the accused or the defendant each time. Thoughts? I know we probably aren’t allowed to use his initials?

 

[mrjitty]

Whereas manslaughter generally refers to accidental homicide arising from an unlawful act or failure to act, where death could not reasonably be expected.

Manslaughter frequently arises where the accused was merely negligent, failing an objective standard, but thus lacked the subjective intention required under NZ Crimes Act s 167

I don't know, as much as I hate to state it, I think they may have a case for manslaughter. JMO

What in your view, is the evidence at trial that supports this conclusion?

 

[mrjitty]

Murder defined

Culpable homicide is murder in each of the following cases:

(a) if the offender means to cause the death of the person killed:

(b) if the offender means to cause to the person killed any bodily injury that is known to the offender to be likely to cause death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not:

(c) if the offender means to cause death, or, being so reckless as aforesaid, means to cause such bodily injury as aforesaid to one person, and by accident or mistake kills another person, though he or she does not mean to hurt the person killed:

(d) if the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he or she knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he or she may have desired that his or her object should be effected without hurting any one.

So here is where I don't agree with your manslaughter argument.

First the Crown has a very strong argument under s167(a). In murder cases, the jury is required to draw logical and obvious inferences about intention based on the circumstantial evidence. Indeed we should not pay too much attention to what the accused says about his intention but rather what inferences we can draw from his conduct. Everything points to direct intention to kill.

Second, under s 167(b) it is surely now clear from the pathology that at the minimum, the accused caused a bodily injury to the victim (neck) and that the injury caused (from minutes of strangulation) was likely to cause death, and he was reckless

OR

Third, failing all of the above, he recklessly but intentionally caused the injury and killed her by accident under 167(c) even though he did not mean to hurt her.

So quite apart from the poor evidential quality of the defence case so far, this appears to be murder based on the defence's own submissions.

 

[mrjitty]

One of the lessons of the Pistorius case is where a guy has lied about virtually every aspect of his version, then his version belongs in the dustbin because as a witness he lacks credibility. The jury should not cherry pick any last bits left standing to save him.

There simply is no credible evidence that this was an "accident".

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

I actually can’t believe he’s putting the family through this.

 

[Sarahlou]

This is all very infuriating to read. So awful for her family to hear.
Thanks as always for the updates!

 

[LucyRocket]

Yeah cheers MrJ. Only one little bit I can see missing

During that conversation, Han says the man said after having six to seven cocktails at Andy's Burger Bar on the night of December 1, they parted ways while walking down to Queen St. The accused said there was no further contact with the women that night and claims she unmatched with him on Tinder.

Grace Millane murder trial: As it happened - Tinder match returns to court, pathologist gives evidence

 

[jaejae]

Another recent Sky News report:

Grace Millane: Backpacker 'was strangled for up to five minutes', court hears

A report from The Daily Mail:

Grace Millane suspect tells police he left her after date, but he actually took her to his hotel | Daily Mail Online

A report from The Mirror:

Grace Millane's mum cries in court as she hears of injuries on daughter's body

 

[Alyce]

Another recent Sky News report:

Grace Millane: Backpacker 'was strangled for up to five minutes', court hears

A report from The Daily Mail:

Grace Millane suspect tells police he left her after date, but he actually took her to his hotel | Daily Mail Online

A report from The Mirror:

Grace Millane's mum cries in court as she hears of injuries on daughter's body

From the DM interview above..love that detective doing the questioning, perfectly correct but his whole body language and tone says I don’t believe a word of this

 

[mrjitty]

From the DM interview above..love that detective doing the questioning, perfectly correct but his whole body language and tone says I don’t believe a word of this

Yes. Lying about everything.

Remember that when he is calmly sitting there talking this nonsense, he recently put Grace in a suitcase and dumped her in the bush.

 

[CrazyLilBlondie]

Defence counsel Ron Mansfield claims the witness went to police to convey the accused as a "horrible" person in a bid to help police investigating Grace's death.

"You wanted to portray yourself as a bit of a victim," he told the court.

How the defense treats these people is absolutely disgusting!!!!

 

[mrjitty]

I've just seen this. The AUDACITY. HE would be safe???

This guy makes me sick.

None of this makes any sense - he gives himself away with his projection

 

[mrjitty]

How the defense treats these people is absolutely disgusting!!!!

Something has to change with this kind of evidence.

Why would the witness want to humiliate herself in Court? There needs to be some kind of evidential basis before the defence ought to be allowed to accuse her of lying.

 

[mrjitty]

What an effin' idiot.

A lot of these types are not very clever - they just think they are smarter than everyone else.

I mean for starters, killing someone on a tinder date puts you in the picture as suspect no 1 straight up

 

[mrazda71]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned but oh, what bitter irony that New Zealand criminalised strangling & suffocation just a day or 2 after Grace was murdered ...

Strangulation criminalised under new law

 

[mrjitty]

Han met the accused at the Crowne Plaza hotel in Auckland, and they went to the food court downstairs to discuss Grace.

During that time, the accused gave police a different address from that of his apartment at the CityLife hotel.

There is quite a significant gap in the evidence which I assume is due to procedural rulings by the Judge

Where did the accused say he lived and worked?

 

[CrazyLilBlondie]

The accused also said he wasn't sure Millane was "real" and may have been a catfish, a fake social media identity.

"If I meet at SkyCity ... If it is someone that it's not, I could just walk away," he said.

"On Tinder it's all about the way you look.

I wonder if this is why when they initially meet up, on the video he walks away for a moment and then goes back?

 

[CrazyLilBlondie]

From the DM interview above..love that detective doing the questioning, perfectly correct but his whole body language and tone says I don’t believe a word of this

Watching that interview and hearing his voice gives me the heebyjeebies. But yes that detective KNOWS. He just knows!

 

[CrazyLilBlondie]

When the detective met the accused in the crown plaza hotel - and then subsequently went down to the food court to interview him - I assume that the crown plaza was the accused’s place of work? Is the footage from the police interview also from that day? The accused is wearing a white shirt and black waistcoat that certainly looks like a hotel uniform. Either that or he has terrible dress sense.

Thats a very good point - definitely looks like a smart hospitality uniform of some sort

 

[CrazyLilBlondie]

The accused said there was no further contact with the women that night and claims she unmatched with him on Tinder.

I wonder if they are able to retrieve the Tinder conversations? if he unmatched with her there would be no obvious history but I wonder if Tinder can provide these? Also was Grace's phone ever found?