Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest* #2

[Edinlass]

Now I haven't commented on any of the evidence so far, because we've no idea how it comes across in court, and we're only getting snippets. But I have got to say that this last witness, called by the defence, would only have made the prosecution's version more credible to me!

I know. In actual fact she was quite happy with ‘vanilla and no hands round her neck’ the night before. What changed? Sure as hell wasnt Mr Grey in his private copter. More like Mr Bland with no pals.

 

[JG123]

Of course it's terrible and of course it's disgusting but this is what they do and this is what they've always done, especially in cases where they have nothing.

The guy killed her, viewed after killing her, stuffed her body into a suitcase, went on a date, methodically cleaned his room, dumped her body, then denied it all until presented with CCTV evidence.

The defence have nothing so they will muckrake and misdirect and attempt to make the case about anything other than what it actually is.

 

[courtkim]

You are absolutely right. It is what they have to do. The only thing they can do.

But it always feels so wrong. The aggressor is able to have their day (or several) in court, and the victim never has that opportunity. They can't give their side of the story. Their life has already been taken, and then they have to be torn to pieces in an attempt for the perpetrator to keep their freedom

In front of all their loved ones who are already hurting.

 

[LucyRocket]

The suspense of who they're going to call next. .....

 

[asyousay]

Of course it's terrible and of course it's disgusting but this is what they do and this what they've always done, especially in cases where they have nothing.

The guy killed her, viewed after killing her, stuffed her body into a suitcase, went on a date, methodically cleaned his room, dumped her body, then denied it all until presented with CCTV evidence.

The defence have nothing so they will muckrake and misdirect and attempt to make the case about anything other than what it actually is.

we still don’t have to sit here silently and tolerate it. Grace is the victim and yet looking at the media today it’s hard to see that.

IMO

 

[Edinlass]

we still don’t have to sit here silently and tolerate it. Grace is the victim and yet looking at the media today it’s hard to see that.

IMO

Exactly - I’m happy to voice my opinions on behalf of Grace also. Poor lassie never stood a chance.

 

[Kikixxxx]

I know. In actual fact she was quite happy with ‘vanilla and no hands round her neck’ the night before. What changed? Sure as hell wasnt Mr Grey in his private copter. More like Mr Bland with no pals.

Ahahaha and a dodgy leg

 

[Edinlass]

Ahahaha and a dodgy leg

Aye and a weird tongue. He’s everything I hate in a guy.

 

[Elainera]

Yes I am confident in saying we all have, many many times. That being said this is the first of this kind of trial I have followed and I am absolutely shocked at the level of victim blaming / shaming going on by the defence. If this is how rape cases are handled no wonder people are afraid to come forward for fear of this sort of backlash!

Genuine question. Would any of this be admissible in a rape trial? And is it the same in the UK and NZ?

You might want to check the Joe McCann trial happening simultaneously in the UK. He's a serial rapist and the accusations and insinuations by the defence his victims have to listen and answer to while on the stand are just awful! One woman was crying even.

 

[LucyRocket]

12:07 - Another witness has taken the stand.

He also has name suppression and messaged with Millane on the dating application Whiplr last year while she was in New Zealand.

He says Whiplr is similar to Tinder, but geared more towards “sexual kinks”.

He says he only initially knew her by her Whiplr username. He matched her profile picture with a picture of Millane when news of her disappearance surfaced.

Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as defence's overseas witnesses stream into court

 

[LucyRocket]

........ here we go again

 

[LucyRocket]

The defence’s next witness, who also has name suppression, "matched" with Grace on Whiplr - an app for those interested in BDSM.

The 38-year-old told the jury he never met up with Grace.

His two attempts to contact her by calling her phone, were both rejected by Grace.

"I attempted to make contact with her to meet up but had no response. There were signs there she didn't want to meet up or speak," he said.

Under cross-examination, Crown prosecutor Brian Dickey puts to the witness that Grace “brushed him off”.

“Yes, that’s possible,” he replied.

The witness is excused.

Grace Millane murder trial: Man details date with backpacker before she died

 

[LucyRocket]

What was the point of him?????

 

[Kikixxxx]

The defence’s next witness, who also has name suppression, "matched" with Grace on Whiplr - an app for those interested in BDSM.

The 38-year-old told the jury he never met up with Grace.

His two attempts to contact her by calling her phone, were both rejected by Grace.

"I attempted to make contact with her to meet up but had no response. There were signs there she didn't want to meet up or speak," he said.

Under cross-examination, Crown prosecutor Brian Dickey puts to the witness that Grace “brushed him off”.

“Yes, that’s possible,” he replied.

The witness is excused.

Grace Millane murder trial: Man details date with backpacker before she died

What was the point in him? Clutching at straws here...

 

[LucyRocket]

It will take more than 5 weeks if they're going to find every man in NZ that Grace never met and put him on the stand to tell us (anonymously) that he never met her

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'm unsure why the hysteria over what the defence are doing. Has no one ever followed a trial before?

Yes, quite a few and some have been on a jury or a witness in a trial! It's a good sign people are shocked by the defence's tactics, we haven't totally lost our humanity.

How can Grace having sex with her date the night before compare with the accused who had a date the next day while Grace's body lay in his apartment?

This prior date said Grace didn't ask to be choked so a little bit of doubt whether Grace asked the accused to do it! Talking about her interests isn't a green light for the accused to go ahead, restrain and choke her! Little did she know he'd been working his way to this.

 

[All & Forward]

Did they meet on Tinder and do you put your sexual preferences on there?

I don’t know how to word this without coming across as judgemental so I’m trying to word it so it doesn’t.


It’s quite a specific sexual kink ( I hope that’s the right word) so how would you meet somebody who wanted the same thing on a dating app for example as not everybody is going to want to do something like that?

I still remember seeing her Tinder profile.

The (first) photo was the black and white selfie one on a slight angle which is a nice, flattering one that gets used a bit by the media.

Her caption was just an English flag emoji.

Pretty common when you're travelling to put that up. Not an especially inspiring profile but plenty of people don't have much information. People in general only put a sentence up and it's a bit light-hearted.

Someone posted this on the Auckland or New Zealand reddit when it was breaking and she was still missing. Made it feel very real and very sad and... really normalised her. It made me feel sad that decent young guys were probably still swiping right on her.

 

[jamjim]

12:20pm - The witness says at one stage he tried to ring Millane on the application WhatsApp. The man did this as he was wanting to know her plans.

She rejected the calls, but later messaged to say she couldn’t speak as she was busy. He took that as a sign she had no immediate desire to meet him.

The witness did, however, contact her again, but he got no response.

The witness has finished giving evidence.

Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as defence's overseas witnesses stream into court

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Of course it's terrible and of course it's disgusting but this is what they do and this is what they've always done, especially in cases where they have nothing.

The guy killed her, viewed after killing her, stuffed her body into a suitcase, went on a date, methodically cleaned his room, dumped her body, then denied it all until presented with CCTV evidence.

The defence have nothing so they will muckrake and misdirect and attempt to make the case about anything other than what it actually is.

As I like to say, painting by numbers, the defence couldn't be more transparent but this is an international case, great advertisement for them.

 

[jamjim]

12:25pm - A private investigator who travelled to the UK for the defence is now speaking to the jury. He unsuccessfully tried to get several witnesses to appear via audio-visual link in court.

Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as defence's overseas witnesses stream into court