Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest*

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  • #561
But if it was potentially a genuine accident he wouldn't have been charged with murder so quickly. Of course he might have said it was accident, asphyxiation or strangulation during consensual sex, to give one example. Really hard to narrow it down without a cause of death. Is that likely to be released at some point, does anyone know?

Ugh, you're right. It would have been manslaughter (or equiv).
If it wasn't a confession that made them say it was now a murder investigation, then I wonder what they found in the hotel room. We know she wasn't dismembered, but is it possible that there were injuries causing extensive blood loss? I too wonder when they'll release the autopsy report.
 
  • #562
But if it was potentially a genuine accident he wouldn't have been charged with murder so quickly. Of course he might have said it was accident, asphyxiation or strangulation during consensual sex, to give one example. Really hard to narrow it down without a cause of death. Is that likely to be released at some point, does anyone know?

The Crown will have to prove he caused her death so cause of death will be spelt out yes.

I suspect we will get some more detailed info - generally the indictment has to spell out the particulars of the offence.
 
  • #563
Ugh, you're right. It would have been manslaughter (or equiv).
If it wasn't a confession that made them say it was now a murder investigation, then I wonder what they found in the hotel room. We know she wasn't dismembered, but is it possible that there were injuries causing extensive blood loss? I too wonder when they'll release the autopsy report.


You'd think there would need to be a pretty significant amount of blood in the apartment to be sure straight away that Grace was dead and if that's the case wouldn't the hire car also be showing some signs, wouldn't the hire car company or next hirer have noticed?

I don't think that moving the body of an average size person in a suitcase to the car is a viable one IMO
 
  • #564
I don't think that moving the body of an average size person in a suitcase to the car is a viable one IMO

I don't know how you'd even get an intact body of an average sized person into a suitcase. Maybe he used something else. A surfboard cover perhaps. They also have wheels.
 
  • #565
She would have been very difficult to move. Maybe he borrowed a wheelchair or a hotel laundry cart or something. I don't think he would have taken a chance on dragging her in a sheet or carrying her over his shoulder but who knows, maybe, if he took her out of his room in the early hours of the morning.
 
  • #566
The original reports mentioned Tinder and the women who spoke out yesterday also met him on a dating app and the young girls he moved in with also mentioned he was obsessed with dating apps.

It seems like this is how he operated to lure unsuspecting women in imo

Yes I absolutely agree. Likely we will hear from other women as well.
 
  • #567
The Crown will have to prove he caused her death so cause of death will be spelt out yes.

I suspect we will get some more detailed info - generally the indictment has to spell out the particulars of the offence.
Any idea when this will be? What's the next in the
She would have been very difficult to move. Maybe he borrowed a wheelchair or a hotel laundry cart or something. I don't think he would have taken a chance on dragging her in a sheet or carrying her over his shoulder but who knows, maybe, if he took her out of his room in the early hours of the morning.
We're assuming he killed her in the room. Do we know that for sure?
 
  • #568
Any idea when this will be? What's the next in the

We're assuming he killed her in the room. Do we know that for sure?
They haven't released any details but I'm basing my suspicions on they knew it was murder before they'd found the car (I think). So unless there was a confession they found a crime scene that was linked to him and no one else IMO.
 
  • #569
  • #570
  • #571
Any idea when this will be? What's the next in the

We're assuming he killed her in the room. Do we know that for sure?

Police stated that she was no longer alive after tracking her movements to the hotel, so that means that there was evidence at the hotel that she was deceased.
 
  • #572
Yes whatever they found in the hotel whether it be CCTV Footage or something in his apartment they said straight away “they had grave fears for safety” so they seemed to find something that Indicated she was dead.
 
  • #573
It could have been any number of things that indicated murder had been committed, but not necessarily in the room. It could have happened in the car for example. They may have found CCTV footage of her leaving the hotel with him and him returning, and found a weapon with her blood on it - there are any of number of scenarios which I'm sure are less likely than her being killed in the room, but until we know for sure we shouldn't assume. There is still a big question of how he sauntered out of a hotel with a dead body.
 
  • #574
Hadn't seen that yet:

Grace Millane murder suspect ‘posed as Tinder playboy to date backpackers'

Meanwhile, a family friend of the alleged killer claimed he liked backpackers – dating a number of Brits.

He was also said to have thrived on the “admiration of young females”.

They said: “He tried to dress as a businessman and impress everyone.”

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www....d-backpacker-auckland-tinder-dating-court/amp
 
  • #575
Hadn't seen that yet:

Grace Millane murder suspect ‘posed as Tinder playboy to date backpackers'

Meanwhile, a family friend of the alleged killer claimed he liked backpackers – dating a number of Brits.

He was also said to have thrived on the “admiration of young females”.

They said: “He tried to dress as a businessman and impress everyone.”

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www....d-backpacker-auckland-tinder-dating-court/amp
All this means is that like most young people, he had a type - he liked backpackers for whatever reason. No crime there. Many men thrive on the admiration of young females, especially men in their mid-twenties. And many dress to impress. This is no indication that he's a murderer. All just sensationalist.
 
  • #576
It could have been any number of things that indicated murder had been committed, but not necessarily in the room. It could have happened in the car for example. They may have found CCTV footage of her leaving the hotel with him and him returning, and found a weapon with her blood on it - there are any of number of scenarios which I'm sure are less likely than her being killed in the room, but until we know for sure we shouldn't assume. There is still a big question of how he sauntered out of a hotel with a dead body.


Apart from there was no CCTV or her leaving the hotel hence only of her arriving there because that’s what’s the cop stated before he was arrested.


I am all for giving the benefit of the doubt but there was zero sign of her leaving that hotel and that’s what the police said when they released cctv footage over the weeeknd. Images of arriving and none to show she left.
 
  • #577
Today's DM article has more quotes from the flatmate he stayed with in 2016. Apparently he lied a lot and made women feel uncomfortable. They asked him to move out after just 6 weeks. Won't link because he is named in the article.
 
  • #578
Hadn't seen that yet:

Grace Millane murder suspect ‘posed as Tinder playboy to date backpackers'

Meanwhile, a family friend of the alleged killer claimed he liked backpackers – dating a number of Brits.

He was also said to have thrived on the “admiration of young females”.

They said: “He tried to dress as a businessman and impress everyone.”

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www....d-backpacker-auckland-tinder-dating-court/amp
From article:
Pals said he was given cash from his grandparents to move into an apartment in the CityLife Hotel in Auckland.

At the age of 26, he gets cash from his grandparents to move into a hotel apartment? And then he poses as a businessman?

Oh look, a predator with a predatory lifestyle!
 
  • #579
Apart from there was no CCTV or her leaving the hotel hence only of her arriving there because that’s what’s the cop stated before he was arrested.


I am all for giving the benefit of the doubt but there was zero sign of her leaving that hotel and that’s what the police said when they released cctv footage over the weeeknd. Images of arriving and none to show she left.

But she obviously left somehow. All I'm saying is let's not make any assumptions. To my knowledge it hasn't been clearly stated that she died in the hotel. Unless I'm missing something which is quite possible.
 
  • #580
Any idea when this will be? What's the next in the

Well at this stage he has just been brought before the district court and charged with murder - so they only need to show enough to justify keeping him locked up. So I guess the facts she is dead, the dumped body, the hire car, and some early forensics are enough on that score. But this is only procedural right now.

As this is a category 4 offence, it will go to trial before the High Court, and before a jury.

Its over 20 years since I did my bar course, but IIRC the indictment must set out the particulars of the offence - i.e. both the Actus Reus (physical act) and Mens Rea (intention)

So in other words, I expect it will need to state that he committed a specific physical act that caused death and also that he had one of the following intentions

(a) if the offender means to cause the death of the person killed:

(b) if the offender means to cause to the person killed any bodily injury that is known to the offender to be likely to cause death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not:

(c) if the offender means to cause death, or, being so reckless as aforesaid, means to cause such bodily injury as aforesaid to one person, and by accident or mistake kills another person, though he or she does not mean to hurt the person killed:

(d) if the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he or she knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he or she may have desired that his or her object should be effected without hurting any one.​

As to when the prosecution need to file that stuff, I am not sure. But we don't have trial by ambush in NZ so the prosecution has to show its hand.
 
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