Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest*

[Satchie]

They seem to have recreated his movements pretty accurately from CCTV/Traffic cams

I guess he purchased this shovel on sunday and dumped it.

The photo they circulated was of a brand new one - likely from the same store I guess

If he was dumb enough, they could have also used his phone to follow roughly where he went. I also wonder whether there was a hidden gps tracking unit in his rental car.

 

[Ben_Bowler98]

Must say this particular case has still hit me hard. Being from the city Grace went to university too you can tell they genuinely thought the world of her. So sad and such a waste of a young girls life, when she had it all in front of her

 

[Tortoise]

If he was dumb enough, they could have also used his phone to follow roughly where he went. I also wonder whether there was a hidden gps tracking unit in his rental car.

I think if it had GPS tracking they would know where it was between 6.30 and 9.30am on Monday.

 

[FigTree]

Figtree I have the feeling he didn't confess to anything. jmo

Yes, that could be it Elainera.
I'm sure he's being advised to say nothing at all.

Me too. They were asking for the public's help in tracing the movements of the car for 3 hours on Monday morning. I expect they have been able to fill in some of those gaps now from cctv footage, and inspection of parts of his route turned up the shovel.
MOO

I'd be so interested to know what all that collected CCTV footage says about his movements and if Grace was seen in the car - or even the shovel for that matter.

 

[All & Forward]

Her birthday was the next day - Sunday.

I also think you need to factor in people have different approaches to backpacking.

I travelled both alone and in a group. I would not head to the bar/common room and tell everyone it was my birthday whereas it sounds like you would.

Some of my friends preferred to avoid hanging out with backpackers at all costs! Some like to stick close to the travellers trails and hangouts. Some people like to party. Some people are more focussed on seeing the sites.

Generally speaking, if you can meet some locals, this can open a lot of doors to better experiences and especially save you a hell of a lot of money. Hell in my day (20 years ago) we never had the kind of money these kids have. So sure I could afford a beach hut in thailand at US$10 per night but a place like London you dossed via networks of mates until you could find a job and hooking up with a local was a big plus!

So I am not really surprised if UK backpackers would seek out locals early on

I guess we are going to learn a lot more about who she was connected with and what she had done so far

I'm not the sort of person to walk into a room of strangers and tell everyone it's about me. Plenty of backpackers are loud mouths who love attention but that isn't me. I don't especially try hard to get along with fellow people in the hostel either. If anything I'm a loner. I don't appreciate the implication of 'it sounds like you would.' Kinda harsh.

She'd been at the hostel for a few days, she'd spoken to the people in her dorm. She'd also travelled to the Bay of Islands a few days previous. Hostels are transient places and your allies can be afternoon-long. But I think it indicates she had some pals there.

So, at some point you'd probably mention it was your birthday soon and people would be like 'oh come on, we've gotta do something, it's your birthday! How many birthdays are you gonna have in Auckland?' Not to mention her adding people on facebook and the platform's function of alerts for your friends' upcoming birthdays.

As for 'it was her birthday on Sunday, not Saturday...' People are going to go out on a Saturday if their birthday's Sunday – clubs heave more on a Saturday night, there's more excitement on a Saturday night. Most young people consider that their birthday night, and it falling on a Sunday means you're chuffed as you can go out Saturday for it. And when you're backpacking, any excuse is a good one.

She also had a heap of money. She didn't need to worry about saving cash because she was at the start of a (year?) long trip. Her dad's also got money. She probably did the hostel thing as a way of meeting people and to live that lifestyle. The 45 bucks she could've said by staying at someone's house for a few days probably didn't enter the equation.

I just find it weird that someone considered popular, funny, and friendly (though these terms are quite often used in these cases) would go out with a random guy on a Saturday night when she's been at a hostel for a while.

Then again, so many times you're keen for a night out but no one else is. Sometimes it's just the combined vibe. When you're travelling, Saturday nights aren't more alluring than any other and they mean less. Everyone could have been partied out but she wasn't. I'm just raising questions.

Anyway, most of this conjecture is pointless, because so often these details completely derail threads.

 

[All & Forward]

Re: the shovel and trying to track his movements on Monday morning.

I guess it's assumed this is the time that the body was first in the Waitākere Ranges.

According to the Guardian (linked below) the shovel was found in West Auckland via CCTV clues.

This is my guesswork here: he's bought the shovel before, he's driven her to the Waitākeres. From what I've read, the body wasn't buried. The shovel's then been driven back through Auckland, dumped, and he's gone to drop the hire car back in the middle of the North Island. I wonder if they're appealing for info because they believe he's been spooked? Has he gone to bury the body, but had too many cars drive by or even one pull in nearby, and he's panicked, just dropped her, and taken the shovel with him? Police might want this information of a sighting so they can decide the state of the body. I'm sure an autopsy's been done and they know her time of death, but there could be something in it. Of course, it's also their duty to fill in all voids of time as part of any investigation.

Grace Millane: police find shovel after CCTV search

 

[Tortoise]

I'm wondering if he used the shovel to bury her phone and passport that would identify the body. If police know who she is she can more easily and quickly be linked back to the hostel and local cctv. Maybe he wasn't planning on her being reported missing so soon, people assume she's moved on and ditched some of her belongings at the hostel, and cctv gets recorded over.

 

[All & Forward]

I'm wondering if he used the shovel to bury her phone and passport that would identify the body. If police know who she is she can more easily and quickly be linked back to the hostel and local cctv. Maybe he wasn't planning on her being reported missing so soon, people assume she's moved on and ditched some of her belongings at the hostel, and cctv gets recorded over.

This is a 'smart' way of ridding evidence and I just think this guy wasn't in that sort of mindset.

Now you've mentioned it, they could have 'had' him so early as the passport, watch, and phone were in his apartment.

That's the thing that really <modsnip profanity> me up. One of the things. She had all these moments and memories with friends and yet he's the last person to spend time with her... and a few hours with her. At some point in the night, they were just making new experiences. She was also a person – she had a phone with personal text messages in it, with a logged in instagram account she scrolled through when she was waiting for a train, a necklace she thought looked nice on her, she had a passport which opened up the world to her and could not have belonged to anyone else except Grace Emmie Rose Millane, from Wickford, Essex. And to him that was all something to get rid of, and now it's just evidence. It <modsnip profanity> hits me. I cannot stop thinking about those things and the normality of the case.

 

[TheLondonEye]

It will be interesting to find out the results of the autopsy. How she died will give us a much clearer insight into what happened and why IMO.

She’s been flown back to the U.K. now so I expect the media over here will have the finer details perhaps sooner than NZ police would wish.

 

[SandyQLS]

Re: the shovel and trying to track his movements on Monday morning.

I guess it's assumed this is the time that the body was first in the Waitākere Ranges.

According to the Guardian (linked below) the shovel was found in West Auckland via CCTV clues.

This is my guesswork here: he's bought the shovel before, he's driven her to the Waitākeres. From what I've read, the body wasn't buried. The shovel's then been driven back through Auckland, dumped, and he's gone to drop the hire car back in the middle of the North Island. I wonder if they're appealing for info because they believe he's been spooked? Has he gone to bury the body, but had too many cars drive by or even one pull in nearby, and he's panicked, just dropped her, and taken the shovel with him? Police might want this information of a sighting so they can decide the state of the body. I'm sure an autopsy's been done and they know her time of death, but there could be something in it. Of course, it's also their duty to fill in all voids of time as part of any investigation.

Grace Millane: police find shovel after CCTV search

Hmmm... what sort of roots and soil are up there? The shovel may be adequate in a backyard garden, but completely useless in the heavy bush on the W. Ranges? Volcanic rock?

 

[mrjitty]

The backpacker was last seen in the company of a man at CityLife Hotel in Auckland, not far from the hostel she was staying in, which was on the same road were Mr Kempson lived.

Grace Millane murder case: missing shovel found after police appeal

Hopefully the Telegraph have this right.

I think this phrase is actually the source of confusion!


Base Backpackers AKL and City Life Hotel are both on Queen St. So one reading is that he "lived" at City Life - per the Court documents

But I initially took it to mean he also lived on Queen Street in an apartment and not at City Life.

My guess is the guy was of no fixed abode - so had checked into City Life. Possibly having returned from Oz.

 

[mrjitty]

Hmmm... what sort of roots and soil are up there? The shovel may be adequate in a backyard garden, but completely useless in the heavy bush on the W. Ranges? Volcanic rock?

Its native bush. Digging a hole there is not too difficult.

 

[mrjitty]

Me too. They were asking for the public's help in tracing the movements of the car for 3 hours on Monday morning. I expect they have been able to fill in some of those gaps now from cctv footage, and inspection of parts of his route turned up the shovel.

MOO

Yes.

Reading between the lines he dumped it somewhere in west auckland as that is on the route back from Waitakere to the central CBD

But even still, AKL is a big place so finding it was not so easy

 

[Tortoise]

This is a 'smart' way of ridding evidence and I just think this guy wasn't in that sort of mindset.

Now you've mentioned it, they could have 'had' him so early as the passport, watch, and phone were in his apartment.

Did they find those items at his apartment? I haven't read they were found yet.

I don't think burying something shows he had to be smart. The dumbest of criminals knows how to dig a hole and they are linking a shovel to him for some purpose. If her body wasn't buried then it must have been something else - I suppose it could be a weapon, or he intended to bury her and gave up because it was taking too long.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm puzzled by how police knew her clothes were missing before they'd found her body.

the clothing is going to be somewhere, we haven't found it. Somebody may find it somewhere, we don't know what has happened to it

https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceani...ssing-british-backpacker-20181208-p50l39.html

 

[jamjim]

I'm puzzled by how police knew her clothes were missing before they'd found her body.

the clothing is going to be somewhere, we haven't found it. Somebody may find it somewhere, we don't know what has happened to it

https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceani...ssing-british-backpacker-20181208-p50l39.html

I thought the same about the watch and necklace - they mentioned that being missing before they found her body. What made them think those items would not still be on her persons when they found her body?

 

[jamjim]

It definitely looks like she's wearing the watch on her left hand in the CCTV footage. The watch is described as pink, but it's a very pale pink, almost a white/cream colour.

 

[Tortoise]

I don't know what time they first announced the details of the watch and necklace being missing but I suppose in the case of her missing clothes it might be possible they had located her body but decided to keep it quiet for a few hours until they spoke to the family.

 

[jamjim]

Police suspect believe British backpacker Grace Millane has been murdered

It looks as though they were reporting the watch and necklace being missing on the 8th December.

 

[Tortoise]

Police suspect believe British backpacker Grace Millane has been murdered

It looks as though they were reporting the watch and necklace being missing on the 8th December.

So same day as the clothes. I think it's possible they found a body but if it could have been someone else (identifying jewellery etc missing) they weren't going to announce it until they had sufficient info to link the body with the case of missing Grace.