Found Safe New Zealand - Tom Phillips, 34, shot/deceased; his 3 children who were with him found alive

[airportwoman]

Its quite hard in nz to be deemed unfit. Abuse. Alcohol, drugs, someetimes if they are still feeding and getting kids to school OT will be involved but not actually take the kids away. People in jail can still have custody but not day to day care. Its messed up.

That's also true in the U.S.

 

[sapphire blue]

That the mother had problems of her own has been so much a part of this ongoing story here in NZ it is hard to know where/when it came from first. The children were placed in the care of their grandparents ie Tom Phillips' parents had custody. Whether this was shared with TP I don't know but the mother only got shared custody with the grandparents around about the time the children went missing.

Here in NZ the Family Court is regarded as being anti women/anti men, anti this or that (so for an outsider probably very fair to the children!!) The prime focus for the FC by law is given to the needs of the children not the parents. Even allowing for this primary focus, it is still relatively unusual for grandparents to have custody while there are two living parents. So I think it is fair to say that the FC felt it better for the children to be stable with their grandparents or perhaps turning it around, that the children would not fare as well if they were placed with either of the parents with the other parent having visitation rights or even shared custody.

Yet ultimately it has been proven that it was the father who was the dangerous parent, and it was his parents who enabled him after he was found unfit to have custody.

I think it’s fair to say that the FC potentially made a decision based on the manipulation by the father and his family. Are they generally biased to or against any cultures?

Think DARVO, because ultimately Tom Phillips proved he was a narcissist.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

that's exactly what I said if you read the second half of my sentence
I was saying this is a good ending

I read your post as the good ending being the children being found alive rather than the father also being permanently removed from their lives. If I have misread that, my apologies.

 

[LadyL]

"New Zealand police believe
they have discovered the main campsite that had been used by Tom Phillips and his three children.

View attachment 613663

Detective Senior Sergeant Andrew Saunders revealed the site was well hidden and difficult to access.

View attachment 613664

Detective Senior Sergeant Saunders described the area as 'grim' and 'dimly lit'."

View attachment 613665

https://twitter.com/x/status/1965591943154401380

there it is
thanks Dotta

 

[LadyL]

I read your post as the good ending being the children being found alive rather than the father also being permanently removed from their lives. If I have misread that, my apologies.

both are good, no worries
we're on the same team

 

[table legs]

Yes and no it really depends on what judge you get on the day. Sometimes it can be as simple as "this is wonderful we have a father who actually wants a child in his life" or if suspect in this case one family has enough money to hire a very very very expensive lawyer and drag it through court hoping the mum would give up.
If that is the case I would hate to imagine after all the money spent why he was unfit.

 

[Absoluterubbish]

Evidence at bush camp shows fugitive father had ‘outside help’, NZ police say

Police have released further images of the campsite where Tom Phillips’ children were found after his death on Monday, which appear to show a camp kitchen and sleeping area.

www.smh.com.au

Since the children were reunited and settled into state care on Monday, police have been scouring the campsite to determine how the Phillips family managed to survive for so long in the remote and rugged environment.
...
The children’s mother, Cat, has told New Zealand outlet Mata that she is yet to be told when she will be reunited with her children, who were aged eight, seven and five when she last saw them four years ago.

New Zealand Police Minister Mark Mitchell said it was a “complex situation” and that the authorities were governed by court orders.
...
“My staff were talking to her a number of times yesterday, but there are court matters in place, which need to be considered before any access to the children may be considered, as far as I’m aware,” he said.

Chambers said once police recovered the children at the campsite, they were “fairly quickly” handed over to welfare authorities “to ensure that they had the care and the protection that they deserved”.

Chambers sympathised with their mother’s plight and understood that she would be desperate to see them, but said that was not up to the police.

“I totally appreciate that as a parent, and as a parent myself, however… that’s something that [welfare authority] Oranga Tamariki will need to consider,” he said. “There’s obviously things that need to be considered first.”

This in itself shows there were complex custody issues before this arose otherwise she would have been reunited with her children straight away. I’m not bad mouthing her we are all human but this isn’t a straight forward case. My heart aches for those children and all I hope for is some stability love and care in their lives going forward

 

[table legs]

This in itself shows there were complex custody issues before this arose otherwise she would have been reunited with her children straight away. I’m not bad mouthing her we are all human but this isn’t a straight forward case. My heart aches for those children and all I hope for is some stability love and care in their lives going forward

I can imagine in her shoes even if I was turning my life around before someone took my kids bush. I would potentially fall off the wagon too. If thats what's happened hopefully she can get her together now. She went into this role as just a mum but now her title and role has completely changed.

 

[sapphire blue]

This in itself shows there were complex custody issues before this arose otherwise she would have been reunited with her children straight away. I’m not bad mouthing her we are all human but this isn’t a straight forward case. My heart aches for those children and all I hope for is some stability love and care in their lives going forward

I don’t agree, the children’s psychological state needs to be considered first and foremost, they’ve had 4 years of being kept isolated and their father is now dead after shooting a police officer, that’s enough for them to process to start with.

We also don’t know what the father has said about the mother, since he took off with them it’s quite likely that he has used those 4 years to turn the children against their mother.

Reintegration with family and normal life is going to take time, rushing it would not be a good idea.

 

[sapphire blue]

I can imagine in her shoes even if I was turning my life around before someone took my kids bush. I would potentially fall off the wagon too. If thats what's happened hopefully she can get her together now. She went into this role as just a mum but now her title and role has completely changed.

Unsubstantiated rumours or gossip are not facts.

well she has a job, that’s a good sign isn’t it

Ex-wife had worked on farm 200m from Tom Phillips’ roadside shootout

The Waikato fugitive’s former wife was employed at the property in the past 12 months.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Summarising the article
Farmers Clive and Sandra Morgan, who employed Cat, spoke highly of her:
Described as “a good lady, very strong, physically, very normal and intelligent.”
Noted her talent as a sheep shearer, and the emotional toll of being separated from her children for over three years.

 

[Eloise]

I'm guessing they'll start with supervised visits, then work up from there. If her life is in order then it won't take long. They've been through so much.

 

[table legs]

Unsubstantiated rumours or gossip are not facts.

well she has a job, that’s a good sign isn’t it

Ex-wife had worked on farm 200m from Tom Phillips’ roadside shootout

The Waikato fugitive’s former wife was employed at the property in the past 12 months.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Summarising the article
Farmers Clive and Sandra Morgan, who employed Cat, spoke highly of her:
Described as “a good lady, very strong, physically, very normal and intelligent.”
Noted her talent as a sheep shearer, and the emotional toll of being separated from her children for over three years.

I meant her role has completely changed for one her kids are four years older they would be different people regardless. They have been brainwashed against her, they will have different roles in their family now too. They will have to relearn to rely on someone and just be kids, if they can. The man has taken so much from them. It would be awful to be in that situation as a mother.

 

[Seni]

Operation Curly: Inside the four-year search for Tom Phillips and his children

A look inside Operation Curly, the four-year search for the fugitive and his kids.

www.rnz.co.nz

 

[airportwoman]

Yes and no it really depends on what judge you get on the day. Sometimes it can be as simple as "this is wonderful we have a father who actually wants a child in his life" or if suspect in this case one family has enough money to hire a very very very expensive lawyer and drag it through court hoping the mum would give up.
If that is the case I would hate to imagine after all the money spent why he was unfit.

Anyone who works in the field will tell you that the worst custody decisions involve couples where neither parent should have it, and while I don't know if that's the case here, it's a possibility (and it happened in my own extended family; socioeconomic status has little to do with it).

 

[starlightstarbright]

Looking at the camp photos in the released images, the boxes of stuff and fuel canisters, there is no way that 1 adult and 3 children moved that from place to place without assistance. (JMO based on my experience trekking and camping with my children ) Thinking of that photo we saw of them caught by the pig hunters, they looked in transit then, and there is no way even those full packs carried all that stuff.

 

[OneLove]

Looking at the camp photos in the released images, the boxes of stuff and fuel canisters, there is no way that 1 adult and 3 children moved that from place to place without assistance. (JMO based on my experience trekking and camping with my children ) Thinking of that photo we saw of them caught by the pig hunters, they looked in transit then, and there is no way even those full packs carried all that stuff.

My first question on seeing the immediate request for an injunction barring media release of facts was whether that request was to protect the identities of those who helped TP abuse, traumatize, and jeopardize the lives of 3 innocent captive young children for 4 long years. ~~Who has made rapid shifts preparing to hide themselves for safety from the wrath of public sentiment? Whoever aided him was as monstrous and flawed as he was himself.

 

[table legs]

My first question on seeing the immediate request for an injunction barring media release of facts was whether that request was to protect the identities of those who helped TP abuse, traumatize, and jeopardize the lives of 3 innocent captive young children for 4 long years. ~~Who has made rapid shifts preparing to hide themselves for safety from the wrath of public sentiment? Whoever aided him was as monstrous and flawed as he was himself.

Considering the media can't publish certain things anyway, the police and OT wont disclose things that relate to children. A blanket ban made by TPs family was probably self serving, as well as the recent media pleas. IMO they probably knew something unpleasant and stopped helping and want to pretend they haven't been okay with everything.

 

[BrianM]

I'm a bit late to the party, I haven't been following for a couple of days. But so glad to see the kids have been found! I had expected the worst, considering he was able to hide for 4 years.

 

[OddOneOut]

I don't believe those children stayed in the make-shift tent encampment through three or four harsh winters. I think there has to be a more substantial camp somewhere. Are there any caves, hidden or abandoned cabins in the area?

 

[OneLove]

This in itself shows there were complex custody issues before this arose otherwise she would have been reunited with her children straight away. I’m not bad mouthing her we are all human but this isn’t a straight forward case. My heart aches for those children and all I hope for is some stability love and care in their lives going forward

Knowing what we now know about Tom Phillips, I imagine her life with him was hell. It seems likely that a man who would abuse his own young children in such excruciating ways would have also abused their mother. I wish the very best for her. And I hope those who helped TP commit this heinous crime get everything they've earned and more.