News from Court T.V.

[K777angel]

The Enquirer reports John Kenady was told by Helgoth that he had personal knowledge of the Ramsey case. Kenady said Helgoth told him it was a kidnapping gone bad and that he was involved.

The crime scene photo of Helgoth's body shows a pistol not far from his hand, although he supposedly killed himself with a shotgun or rifle fired through a pillow.

Kenady also said Helgoth had hidden videos of little girls walking around in public, as well as a recorded broadcast of a news report of a little five year old girl who was kidnapped and murdered in 1993.

Ollie Gray was told by Helgoth's friends that he owned at least three stun guns, one of them being an Air Taser.

He had Hi-Tec boots, show in the crime scene photograph.

Helgoth also had rented a remote cabin around the time of JBR's murder.

He had a couple of big gargage cans next to the pad or thin mattress he was found on, which he apparently used for drawers. (Not evidence he killed anyone, but something I have never seen.)

So, we have good reason to look at Bootman.

There is NO evidence at the scene of the crime at the Ramsey home (it makes NO sense to point only to the scene of ANOTHER crime - Helgoth's death - in order to accuse someone of JonBenet's murder at ANOTHER location) that points to Helgoth or anyone else other than a Ramsey!!
How can the FACTS be so easily discounted that point to Ramsey involvement?
How did PATSY RAMESY'S clothing fibers of the clothes she wore that night of the murder get entwined in the knot of the cord around JonBenet's neck??
And in the paint tote where the paint brush handle was retreived from and broken for the cord around her neck?
How did this Helgoth - or ANYONE - manage to write just as Patsy Ramsey writes?? And I am not even talking about the handwriting itself - but the contents and form of the note. Her character exclamation points used in the note, the use of unusual terms that PATSY used - "gentlemen" (which is ALSO written by her in her book) "and hence", "southern common sense" "fat cats". Not to mention the $118K ransom "demand" that just happened to be the same amount as her husband's latest bonus pay, the incredible length of the note which is totally unrealistic and uncharacteristic of REAL kidnappers - but very characteristic of Patsy's personality where she tends to OVER-DO everything and be dramatic to make her point. (that is the purpose by the way behind using exclamation points ...)!!
How did anyone know that it was THESE stairs that Patsy came down each morning? And that her habit was to place things at the bottom of those stairs to be noticed and brought up?

Why - if this was a "planned kidnapping" did Helgoth or ANYONE else manage to not even bring the "ransom" note to the point of the kidnapping? LOL!! This one is so obvious it makes a fool out of anyone who entertains the idea that anyone BUT someone in that home wrote that note to cover up the crime.
This was not a "kidnapping gone bad" - it was the kidnapping that never was or intended to be.
It was an ACCIDENT GONE BAD.
And it is STILL going bad.

 

[Barbara]

Seemingly, there is an RST theory which has Helgoth as the accomplice (with the *real* perp leaving the DNA) and then being murdered by the *real* perp to keep him quiet.

Yeah, that's plausible. MULTIPLE perps who left no trace of themselves save for some degraded DNA

 

[sissi]

Where is Misty?
A few weeks ago "we" had this conversation ,and Misty seemed to have a file on Kenady concerning his "priors",I believe she suspected his involvement may have been more along the line of an attempted 'identity theft".
I have no idea,other than he(Kenady) felt Helgoth was good for this crime,and broke into his home before it's destruction to gain access to the boots ,stungun and a check for "about" half of the ransom amount, 54,000 dollars.
I didn't follow the business dealings ,property being sold under contract ,supposed feelings that John's business was wiping out the little "junk yard" business to purchase land for expansion. (or not,I really didn't follow this)
A kidnapping gone awry? Was that the bottom line with Kenady's accusation? But then we find he may have been involved in a murder of a five year old? Perhaps this would place him in the sadistic pedophile category,or perhaps it's all bunk?
Hope there is news to follow that makes sense,or is this the preview "nailbiter" for the upcoming Tracy documentary?
IMO JMO

 

[guppy]

I really don't have time right now to refute all of your responses point by point, but it probably isn't necessary anyway. Ya'll already know the counter-arguments.

Suffice it to say, though, that all of us RST types do not share the same theories nor view the evidence in the same manner. And, I didn't say Helgoth killed JonBenet. The Enquirer says that.

I do find it fascinating that those who have poo-pooed the DNA evidence for years are now using it to exclude Helgoth. I mean, why would Helgoth's DNA match that of an Asian pantie-packer half a world away?

One thing I forgot to mention above...The Enquirer reports Ollie Gray turned information to Bennett showing that Helgoth was in the Ramsey house on at least one occasion.

 

[Spade]

I'm glad I saved this clipping from the AP News wire in November 2000:


BOULDER, Colo. (AP) ** A shoe print found near JonBenet Ramsey's body
didn't come from a pair of boots John and Patsy Ramsey thought might
be connected to their daughter's slaying, police said.

The boots belonged to a Boulder County man who committed suicide in
February 1997, a couple of months after the 6-year-old beauty queen was found beaten and strangled in the basement of her home.
The Ramseys gave police the boots in August after their private
investigator, Ollie Gray, obtained them. Gray said the boots could have
belonged to JonBenet's killer.

But Police Chief Mark Beckner said the boots didn't make the partial print
found in the basement. DNA tests and interviews with the dead man's
friends and family also led police to conclude he wasn't involved in the
slaying. "There is nothing that ties this guy into the case," Beckner
said.

The Ramseys remain under suspicion in their daughter's death. They have
said they believe an intruder killed the girl.
AP-WS-11-21-00 1526EST

 

[why_nutt]

One thing I forgot to mention above...The Enquirer reports Ollie Gray turned information to Bennett showing that Helgoth was in the Ramsey house on at least one occasion.

And by "information," what is meant? Unreliable testimony from people who cannot prove their assertions? BNJazzy4Ever had "information" to incriminate a suspect and we all saw how that turned out.

 

[Barbara]

I didn't say Helgoth killed JonBenet. The Enquirer says that.

So you don't believe it yourself then? Why are you NOT poo-pooing the whole thing, rather than just pointing to the fact that the Enquirer is saying it? We already knew that!

I do find it fascinating that those who have poo-pooed the DNA evidence for years are now using it to exclude Helgoth. I mean, why would Helgoth's DNA match that of an Asian pantie-packer half a world away?

You have quite a way with words Guppy. Let me set the record straight for you:

The vast majority of "us" (as you like to say) do NOT believe the DNA is in any way a part of this murder. So WE are not poo-pooing the DNA as exclusion for Helgoth. We are mimicking what we have been hearing ever since the DNA was discovered. We have been told by Lou Smit, Keenan, and other LE officials ALONG with Lin Wood, the Ramseys, and all the internet RST that the DNA belonged to the murderer and once it is matched, the case is SOLVED. "WE" have been poo-pooing this all along. So it is now we wonder WHY Helgoth is NOW such a good suspect (based on the tales of another lunatic) when his DNA doesn't match. By your standards, DOES IT NOT EXCLUDE HIM??????

One thing I forgot to mention above...The Enquirer reports Ollie Gray turned information to Bennett showing that Helgoth was in the Ramsey house on at least one occasion.

It's very possible, as it keeps getting reported that just about EVERYONE in Boulder was either in the house or had a key at some time. Funny we never heard this before....likely because it is not true, or as we know, been checked and shown to be a red herring (RST favorites). Even if he was in the house on ONE occasion, it wasn't on December 26, 1996.

 

[Barbara]

But Police Chief Mark Beckner said the boots didn't make the partial print
found in the basement. DNA tests and interviews with the dead man's
friends and family also led police to conclude he wasn't involved in the
slaying. "There is nothing that ties this guy into the case," Beckner
said.

Thank you once again Spade, for reminding us of the truth.

I'm tempted to add this to my signature. I think this should be posted over and over again.

Nice going, Shapiro! What an idiot and a lowlife

 

[SisterSocks]

Another dead man under the bus!

I am going to guess that Helgoth has no family who will fight for him. A nice, easy target for the RST.

How come his DNA doesn't match and he's a suspect?????????????????

Doesn't that mean that if Helgoth is a suspect, the whole "killer's DNA" avenue is officially closed? I guess ALL the Ramseys are suspects again.

What a pity!

DNA RICE ALL COOKED As Henry Lee says

 

[FULTON]

The note was written by someone with grammer and spelling skills. .Even though there were a few misspellings,the majority of the notes contents were scribed by somone with an education.I doubt the Mr.Helgoth had much of either.

 

[sissi]

Oh how I wish we knew his contacts. It would be much more interesting if he were a friend of Mcelroy ,Wolfe or someone that we could consider better educated. It was a college town,maybe he and a more educated accomplice were just planning on burglarizing the homes. Wouldn't it be interesting if they could tie him to the other murdered child,the five year old,then place him in the Ramseys house, and listen to the police say he's not a viable suspect. Why would a man ,any man, hold on to tapes of a story of a murdered five year old? Was this murdered child,the same little murdered friend Santa spoke of? The other little friend whose name he inscribed on the harp?
JMO

 

[Britt]

Oh how I wish we knew his contacts. It would be much more interesting if he were a friend of Mcelroy ,Wolfe or someone that we could consider better educated.

The only "contacts" that might make sense in this case would be Ramsey contacts. Was Helgoth a friend of John Andrew Ramsey? Was he involved in some criminal business with John Ramsey? Remember the $118,000 receipts reported by offshore banking services for 1995-1996. Was Ramsey in some kinda criminal cahoots with Helgoth and his buddy the criminal Kenady? Something like say smuggling drugs on the Ramsey private plane and the local criminals selling them?

http://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0007&L=maykha-l&F=&S=&P=27675

 

[Spade]

I am reposting this in hopes that the truth will find its way into your memory:

I'm glad I saved this clipping from the AP News wire in November 2000:

BOULDER, Colo. (AP) ** A shoe print found near JonBenet Ramsey's body
didn't come from a pair of boots John and Patsy Ramsey thought might
be connected to their daughter's slaying, police said.

The boots belonged to a Boulder County man who committed suicide in
February 1997, a couple of months after the 6-year-old beauty queen was found beaten and strangled in the basement of her home.
The Ramseys gave police the boots in August after their private
investigator, Ollie Gray, obtained them. Gray said the boots could have
belonged to JonBenet's killer.

But Police Chief Mark Beckner said the boots didn't make the partial print
found in the basement. DNA tests and interviews with the dead man's
friends and family also led police to conclude he wasn't involved in the
slaying. "There is nothing that ties this guy into the case," Beckner
said.

The Ramseys remain under suspicion in their daughter's death. They have
said they believe an intruder killed the girl.
AP-WS-11-21-00 1526EST

 

[Spade]

Originally Posted by Barbara
Another dead man under the bus! I am going to guess that Helgoth has no family who will fight for him. A nice, easy target for the RST.

Actually, Helgoth does have a family that cares about his memory.

48 Hours Investigates found that out when they switched to Helgoth after first attempting to throw the White's under the bus. Remember, they ended up with Oliva. I heard that the producer was told that Helgoth had no connection to the case by Beckner personally.

 

[TLynn]

Media will exploit a story if they can get viewers/readers...it doesn't have to be fact. They'll just slant it.

They've slandered the Ramseys till the lawsuits were filed/threatened and have backed off them - but the story still has high interest.

Ricci (Elizabeth Smart) was the suspected kidnapper and IMO he was beaten to death in trying to get a confession out of him.

Where's the evidence - no DNA match, no "stun gun" match, no Hi-Tec Boot match...no evidence at all.

Lots of people were/are obsessed with this case and may have the desire to be "involved" in some way. Or too many sickos that have various forms of child .

I don't think the truth lies with Helgoth. Albeit, I would have to go with the two or more involved and not just him.

But I don't buy it. No hard evidence just speculation.

 

[Shawna]

http://www.cloquetmn.net/cgi-bin/ta...ttp://www.cloquetmn.net/talkshop&msg_num=3950

Jimmy from Cloquetmn is all around usenet rambling on about Michael Helgoth. His e mail address is the same on alt.true.crime

http://groups.google.ca/[email protected]&rnum=1

 

[halycon]

We can't really be sure that is Helgoth in the picture. It could be a staged photo by Ollie and team, done for the Tracey documentary. Should we expect truth from those guys? Ha. This isn't a courtroom where a staged photo would be a serious matter. It's media spin where anything goes. Lin Wood might have been holding the camera.

 

[Nehemiah]

I really don't have time right now to refute all of your responses point by point, but it probably isn't necessary anyway. Ya'll already know the counter-arguments.

Suffice it to say, though, that all of us RST types do not share the same theories nor view the evidence in the same manner. And, I didn't say Helgoth killed JonBenet. The Enquirer says that.

I do find it fascinating that those who have poo-pooed the DNA evidence for years are now using it to exclude Helgoth. I mean, why would Helgoth's DNA match that of an Asian pantie-packer half a world away?

One thing I forgot to mention above...The Enquirer reports Ollie Gray turned information to Bennett showing that Helgoth was in the Ramsey house on at least one occasion.

How is it explained about the DNA not matching Helgoth, yet his name is being thrown around? Why Helgoth, why now?

What was Helgoth supposedly doing in the R's house?

IMO

 

[sissi]

No,the Helgoth information is real,it wasn't staged by anyone,it just isn't enough to make him a suspect. Facts, he committed suicide after the Hunter announcement,he owned several brands of stunguns,he owned hi-tec boots. Anything beyond this,the suggestion of his involvement in July with the Ramseys, his confession to Kenady, the missing tape,theses things are as suspicious in content as most of what we heard concerning the Ramseys. At this point I expect nothing short of a dna match! If they can't find his,then try the mitochondrial route,I'm certain he has a mother or maternal relatives out there.
IMO

 

[scandi]

Hi,

I thought his DNA did not match. And I thought a stun gun was used on her - could be wrong about that. But I am wondering if the garotte around her neck was determined to have been used in a sexual way, not to strangle her.

If the actual killer was a teen who was learning about sex, and this weird sex involving not being able to breathe had something to do with her death, maybe experimenting on her was the motive or by product which caused her to die. Not that I believe she was intentionally killed.





Scandi