Identified! NH - Allenstown, Adult Female, 23-33, & 3 Children, Marlyse Honeychurch, Marie Vaughn, Sarah McWaters, Rea Rasmussen

[Alleykins]

I guess my research wasn't too far off the mark, I was able to trace one branch of the family back to George Washington. I wonder if that's what they're alluding to. Even though I stink at genealogy, I have to say, the MC's ancestry is fascinating and researching her case has been well worth diving into.

 

[willy wagtail]

View attachment 429055
View attachment 429056
View attachment 429057
Here’s the two pictures I found on Doe Network that are believed to have Anita Moon in them. I circled the girl who I believe might be Anita in blue in the picture with all the children sat down in a big cluster. The girl next to Marie in the birthday picture also really looks like that composite and she’s got TPR’s nose.

The little girl with red bow blowing candles has those sticky out ears

 

[Stephen2016]

The little girl with red bow blowing candles has those sticky out ears

In one of the pictures with the children sitting on the floor there are things in that Picture that are also in other pictures believed to be other pictures in the same apartment at least some of the furnishings are the same. Basically that statue of the horse.

 

[Stephen2016]

Thanks for digging that up Nola!

He's pretty definite that all the victims are from the US. If they spent time in Canada, it was brief. I see what others are saying about the "more northern" remarks, I too wish he would have been asked to clarify that more.

BUT, another thing forgotten in the time since with all the info we have is that he says those barrells were put there between 1980 and 1984 and they've ruled out anything before or after that. This strongly suggests that all four were alive as of 1/1/1980. So again with my own logic, age estimate for Sarah was roughly 2.5 years, because we know her identity now ,and we know she was born in December of 77, summer of 1980 is a good estimate.

For Marie, he gives a wider estimate but says they really think she was most likely between 9-10. We now know Marie was born in December of 1971. Add 9.5 years to that and you get....summer of 1980.

So I really do think now that "Elizabeth" is Marlyse. The timing of "Elizabeth" disappearing matches with the timing of the girls' deaths likely occurring.

 

[Stephen2016]

I came to a similar conclusion based off of Sarah's birth Dec 1977. 1 yr estimated age difference Dec 1976 9 months for conception about 03/1976. I think the estimated ages of all 4 was pretty good and come up with sometime in 1980 plus some of the other factors spouse no spouse arrest statements. Arrested June of 1975 and visit around christmas probably though Dec-ish 1975, AZ being where I think both were. And now the European heritage hopefully will narrow things down considerably. It seems more than one at least 4 of the young victims had similar circumstances. At least those known of.

 

[Stephen2016]

.

I came to a similar conclusion based off of Sarah's birth Dec 1977. 1 yr estimated age difference Dec 1976 9 months for conception about 03/1976. I think the estimated ages of all 4 was pretty good and come up with sometime in 1980 plus some of the other factors spouse no spouse arrest statements. Arrested June of 1975 and visit around christmas probably though Dec-ish 1975, AZ being where I think both were. And now the European heritage hopefully will narrow things down considerably. It seems more than one at least 4 of the young victims had similar circumstances. At least those known of.

thought this was a relevant Dissertation on Single Mothers in the 1970 and 1980s and support. Link to Might be relevant.
For example: Title IV-D of the Social Security Act (1975): This federal legislation established the Child Support Enforcement program, which significantly improved the ability to collect child support payments.

 

[Alleykins]

Last I recall, DDP kept a spreadsheet of active cases and what their highest genetic match was.
Does anyone have a link to that, please? I thought it was on their FaceBook page, but I'm not sure where to look for it anymore. TIA!

 

[jennytrevor]

Data Dashboard | DNA Doe Project

dnadoeproject.org

I don't see her on their spreadsheet.

 

[Melt71]

Last I recall, DDP kept a spreadsheet of active cases and what their highest genetic match was.
Does anyone have a link to that, please? I thought it was on their FaceBook page, but I'm not sure where to look for it anymore. TIA!

Coincidentally I was just looking at it today for another case. It's on their website under About Us - Data Dashboard but doesnt seem to have been updated this year.

 

[Alleykins]

Coincidentally I was just looking at it today for another case. It's on their website under About Us - Data Dashboard but doesnt seem to have been updated this year.

Thank you so much for helping me.

 

[GravityHurts]

Does anyone know if they were able to extract MC's mitochondrial DNA? That could potentially narrow it down, and it'd be less likely to be interrupted by an NPE

 

[Alleykins]

Does anyone know if they were able to extract MC's mitochondrial DNA? That could potentially narrow it down, and it'd be less likely to be interrupted by an NPE

Going from memory from the 2012 press conference, at first, all they had was mitochondrial DNA because their DNA was so badly degraded. So degraded that before they ID'd Marlyse and her daughters, and after they ID'd TPR, they couldn't even compare Marlyse's DNA to TPR's.
Part of the difficulty, as I see it as an amateur, is that the MC has a very large, fecund and long-lived ancestry. Last I knew, her family tree had over 5000 names on it. In a nut shell, these people had tons of kids, who married cousins and had tons of kids.

 

[GravityHurts]

Going from memory from the 2012 press conference, at first, all they had was mitochondrial DNA because their DNA was so badly degraded. So degraded that before they ID'd Marlyse and her daughters, and after they ID'd TPR, they couldn't even compare Marlyse's DNA to TPR's.
Part of the difficulty, as I see it as an amateur, is that the MC has a very large, fecund and long-lived ancestry. Last I knew, her family tree had over 5000 names on it. In a nut shell, these people had tons of kids, who married cousins and had tons of kids.

I remembered that they knew that Marlyse was maternally related to Marie and Sarah before TPR was ever on the radar thanks to the mitochondrial DNA, that's how they also knew that MC wasn't maternally related.

I'm a genealogist myself, and I have sections of my own tree that are a lot like how you describe MC's maternal tree. People living in the same area, intermarrying over multiple generations. I wouldn't know the full extent of it without seeing it, but I had hoped that even in a twisted and branching tree, the mitochondria would give them a more precise target.

Of course, the fact that even Barbara-Rae Venter apparently needed fresh sets of eyes on the case implies that its pretty difficult. Hopefully this means a lot of work has already been done, and the DNA Doe project will have an update soon.

I really hope she can have her name back soon.

 

[Stephen2016]

Last I recall, DDP kept a spreadsheet of active cases and what their highest genetic match was.
Does anyone have a link to that, please? I thought it was on their FaceBook page, but I'm not sure where to look for it anymore. TIA!

Relistend to the video by the NH AG's office about the isotyping. Apparently it was done by the University of Souther Florida.

 

[Melt71]

I remembered that they knew that Marlyse was maternally related to Marie and Sarah before TPR was ever on the radar thanks to the mitochondrial DNA, that's how they also knew that MC wasn't maternally related.

I'm a genealogist myself, and I have sections of my own tree that are a lot like how you describe MC's maternal tree. People living in the same area, intermarrying over multiple generations. I wouldn't know the full extent of it without seeing it, but I had hoped that even in a twisted and branching tree, the mitochondria would give them a more precise target.

Of course, the fact that even Barbara-Rae Venter apparently needed fresh sets of eyes on the case implies that its pretty difficult. Hopefully this means a lot of work has already been done, and the DNA Doe project will have an update soon.

I really hope she can have her name back soon.

When I saw that news I actually wondered if they had a tentative ID and needed the second set of eyes to confirm and also help work through the branches to see if the child's mother or any other caregiver in the female is missing. I really feel like it's such an extraordinary move that there's something seriously complex going on (or maybe the tree just really IS that convoluted).

 

[Alleykins]

When I saw that news I actually wondered if they had a tentative ID and needed the second set of eyes to confirm and also help work through the branches to see if the child's mother or any other caregiver in the female is missing. I really feel like it's such an extraordinary move that there's something seriously complex going on (or maybe the tree just really IS that convoluted).

As big as her family tree is, I vote convoluted. It's huge.

 

[Shane 65]

I’d like to believe that this came

As for identifying the MC-How would I put this tactfully? NH currently is not up on how IGG has to work.....so unless there is a lucky big match that happens I have my doubts. As for Rasmussen's behavior-yes he sexually abused and mentally and physically controlled and tormented his victims. If his wife had not run with the kids when she found cigarette burns on their son I'm sure they would have all been dead too.

I wish authorities who are connected to cold case units could receive some actual training on how to work with genetic genealogists in conducting target testing. The right detectives could do wonders in moving cases like this along.

 

[Shane 65]

When I saw that news I actually wondered if they had a tentative ID and needed the second set of eyes to confirm and also help work through the branches to see if the child's mother or any other caregiver in the female is missing. I really feel like it's such an extraordinary move that there's something seriously complex going on (or maybe the tree just really IS that convoluted)

 

[Shane 65]

Extraordinary is a good word for what occurred. Keeping in mind, of course, that some things can be extraordinarily bad.

 

[Alleykins]

I’d like to believe that this came

I wish authorities who are connected to cold case units could receive some actual training on how to work with genetic genealogists in conducting target testing. The right detectives could do wonders in moving cases like this along.

The NH detective I spoke to seemed to have a grasp on the process. That was just my impression I got based on a brief conversation I had with him. He asked me how I arrived at my tip, what sources did I use, etc, which I had expected when he reached out.
What do you believe the reason was for handing off the case to DDP? Have you heard anything about that?