NH NH/CA - Terry Peder Rasmussen, suspected SK, Allenstown, 1981-2000's - #3

[msphilosopher]

Wish I knew more of the science what condition the bodies in 11/85 we're in and what time frame it would be to get in that condition. At the time the atty general was quoted as saying a year possibly more. But I guess it's not an exact science so it makes it more difficult.

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Have you checked out this thread: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ound-Nov-85-amp-May-00-2&highlight=allenstown

It talks more specifically about the Allenstowns victims found. IIRC, they were skeletal remains and I think they were covered in some sort of film.

I wondered in the film was some type of chemical to make the remains decompose faster.

But yes, I wish there was more science done to determine a more concrete date of the murders and ages of the victims.

 

[Alleykins]

Have you checked out this thread: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ound-Nov-85-amp-May-00-2&highlight=allenstown

It talks more specifically about the Allenstowns victims found. IIRC, they were skeletal remains and I think they were covered in some sort of film.

I wondered in the film was some type of chemical to make the remains decompose faster.

But yes, I wish there was more science done to determine a more concrete date of the murders and ages of the victims.

I think they were either covered with tarps or garbage bags, but not a chemical, that I recall.

 

[Stephen2016]

Have you checked out this thread: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ound-Nov-85-amp-May-00-2&highlight=allenstown

It talks more specifically about the Allenstowns victims found. IIRC, they were skeletal remains and I think they were covered in some sort of film.

I wondered in the film was some type of chemical to make the remains decompose faster.

But yes, I wish there was more science done to determine a more concrete date of the murders and ages of the victims.

I'll check that thread thank you.

I wonder if the film could have been residue from the barrels. If they were barrels from the factory there may have been some chemical residue . It's just that they could tell the oldest child / victim had pierced ears and pneumonia. I'm just like if they were in those barrels for say all them years 1978 - 1985 that's 7~ years. To me that is a long time but I don 't know anything about the science. I've heard of mummification but didn't think outdoors in NH would be an environment conducive for that. But again what do I know.


I don't know about the authentication of the pictures below of the barrels. However, one barrel found 1985 if that is a picture of it the barrel looks pretty new. The other found in 2000 appears to be pretty weathered. So how long were those barrels out there ? I wondered if there was some type of date or something stamped on the barrels but why would that information be revealed . There is so much more that it would be nice to know, even of things that are known just not public knowledge even after 30 plus years.

Prior picture from oakhill's site:


Forensic magazine:

 

[SillyGoose01234]

I'll check that thread thank you.

I wonder if the film could have been residue from the barrels. If they were barrels from the factory there may have been some chemical residue . It's just that they could tell the oldest child / victim had pierced ears and pneumonia. I'm just like if they were in those barrels for say all them years 1978 - 1985 that's 7~ years. To me that is a long time but I don 't know anything about the science. I've heard of mummification but didn't think outdoors in NH would be an environment conducive for that. But again what do I know.


I don't know about the authentication of the pictures below of the barrels. However, one barrel found 1985 if that is a picture of it the barrel looks pretty new. The other found in 2000 appears to be pretty weathered. So how long were those barrels out there ? I wondered if there was some type of date or something stamped on the barrels but why would that information be revealed . There is so much more that it would be nice to know, even of things that are known just not public knowledge even after 30 plus years.

Prior picture from oakhill's site:


Forensic magazine:

I thought the barrels were part of what BE was dumping on the property from the factory.


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[Alleykins]

I always thought they could gauge how long the barrels had been out there by purchasing the exact same ones and leaving them outside, a very simple, inexpensive experiment that they've had decades to perform. Or I'm thinking there must be metallurgists or even barrel experts out there that could approximate how long they were exposed to the elements based on the rate of oxidation. Maybe they've already done that? IDK.

I think knowing when they were placed there could help with narrowing down TR's timeline, but might not be indicative of TOD. They could have been stored elsewhere prior to being dumped, but if they could prove the barrels had been in the woods less than a year or two, it might indicate TR was possibly still in NH after 1981. But, it's also possible he stored them in the barrels at the mill, and someone else moved the barrels to the woods years later, not knowing what was inside.

 

[Ozoner]

I always thought they could gauge how long the barrels had been out there by purchasing the exact same ones and leaving them outside, a very simple, inexpensive experiment that they've had decades to perform. Or I'm thinking there must be metallurgists or even barrel experts out there that could approximate how long they were exposed to the elements based on the rate of oxidation. Maybe they've already done that? IDK.

I think knowing when they were placed there could help with narrowing down TR's timeline, but might not be indicative of TOD. They could have been stored elsewhere prior to being dumped, but if they could prove the barrels had been in the woods less than a year or two, it might indicate TR was possibly still in NH after 1981. But, it's also possible he stored them in the barrels at the mill, and someone else moved the barrels to the woods years later, not knowing what was inside.

To reiterate a point made earlier, possibly in the victims' thread, the barrels could have been out in the woods before the bodies. The garbage bags containing the victims' remains could have been placed inside barrels that TPR had dumped on the property earlier. I doubt that's the case, but it is possible.
We also don't know how rusty the barrels were at the time they were dumped, etc. It's highly unlikely that TPR returned to NH after 1981, so the date range of '78--'81 for the murders and for the placement of the bodies on the property is reasonable.

 

[Stephen2016]

To reiterate a point made earlier, possibly in the victims' thread, the barrels could have been out in the woods before the bodies. The garbage bags containing the victims' remains could have been placed inside barrels that TPR had dumped on the property earlier. I doubt that's the case, but it is possible.
We also don't know how rusty the barrels were at the time they were dumped, etc. It's highly unlikely that TPR returned to NH after 1981, so the date range of '78--'81 for the murders and for the placement of the bodies on the property is reasonable.

Factor in Lisa's recollection of the others who died from eating grass and mushrooms as well as being able to determine someone had double pierced ears makes me wonder about "A" timeline .

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[Alleykins]

We don't know where TR was from after he and DB were seen in November 1981 until he resurfaced in CA in 1984, so there is a possibility he was still in NH, just not in Manchester.

 

[msphilosopher]

Pulling this post forward from thread 2, post #469 by folieadeuxnola: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...-suspected-SK-Allenstown-1981-2000-s-2/page44

1980 - New Hampshire

• (January 9th) – New Hampshire, Manchester - Robert T/C “Bob” Evans (DOB 6/22/44) – Certified letter sent to his Hayward address letter was signed for by an Elizabeth Evans
• (February) – New Hampshire, Manchester- Robert T/C “Bob” Evans (DOB 6/22/44) - Arrested for worthless checks; listed spouse as Elizabeth - Referenced having a 2 years old and a 6 Month old
• (June) – New Hampshire, Manchester - Robert T/C “Bob” Evans (DOB 6/22/44) - Arrested for Electrical Power Theft (Diverting Power); listed spouse as Elizabeth
• (October) – New Hampshire, Manchester - Robert T/C “Bob” Evans (DOB 6/22/44)
- Arrested for Electrical Power theft (Diverting Power); no spouse listed.


Feb 80 - (2) year old & (6) month old

(2) Year Old - Estimated birth year 1977-1978 Could also back into 1977 as that we do not know at the time he stated two year old if her birthday had or had not passed.
(6) Month Old - Estimated birth year 1979

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My thoughts:

I think the elusive Elizabeth Evans could be key to narrowing down the timeline of the murders.

1. If Elizabeth Evans is the woman in the barrel then the murders probably occurred between June '80 - Oct. of '80
2. If Elizabeth Evans is bio daughter's mom, then the murders probably occurred between June '80 - May '81 (Dawn born) - This timeline assumes bio daughter was used to lure Allenstown adult victim.
3. If EE is not the women in the barrel and is not the bio daughter's mom, then I think it's possible that 1) murders all occurred prior to Jan. '80 OR 2) Murders didn't occur at the same time. Barrel 1 with adult and oldest child murder occurring prior to first mention of EE which was Jan. of '80-- meaning murder probably occurred in '79-'78. TR uses youngest two children to lure EE. TR lists EE, 2yo and 6mo on his Feb. '80 arrest, which could mean that the 2yo was bio daughter and 6mo, youngest Allenstown victim. And their murder taking place between '80- spring of '81.

There's also the very unlikely possibility EE is Denise B. but that would mean she got pregnant by another guy while with TR.

However, if TR was living a double life with bio mom and adult allenstown victim at the same time then it's possible he killed them all to get out of the tangled mess he created. Putting the murders occurring back to the general timeframe of '78-'81.

IDK, my head is starting to hurt

 

[Stephen2016]

OMG Feb 80 - (2) year old & (6) month old

(2) Year Old - Estimated birth year 1977-1978 Could also back into 1977 as that we do not know at the time he stated two year old if her birthday had or had not passed.
(6) Month Old - Estimated birth year 1979

That is 2 kids... the 6 month old cannot be Dawn / Elizabeth since she was born 05/1981 .

This is a whole new wrench thrown in ... so is it possible another body was in what they cleaned up from the property years later after 2000 ? ... after finding bodies in 1985 and then in 2000 shouldn't they have gone over that entire property and it's contents with a microscope ? Or maybe it wasn't in the budget.

Am I missing something ?

I'll try to get back to your questions in a bit , right now I am floored by the number of children in 1980

 

[msphilosopher]

I started searching missing and unsolved homicides in NV since we found the Robert Evans shoe shop connection. Maybe he was in Nevada and then traveled to NH.

Could this be middle child's mom???

Quick facts:
- 17yr old, Jeannie Smith, Skeletal Remains found nov. '79.. was missing since Oct. '78
- Resembles middle child (pic below)
- Died of blunt force trauma
- Lemmon Valley, Reno NV which lines up with isotopes of middle child (including pics below)

Detailed facts below from: https://www.washoesheriff.com/sub.php?page=unsolved-homicides

Victim: Jeannie Smith
Location: Lemmon Valley
Date of Occurrence: November 02, 1979

Synopsis:
On November 02, 1979 the skeletal remains of Jeannie Smith, age 17, were found in Lemmon Valley, Nevada,North of Reno. She died as a result of blunt force trauma. Her remains were found in a shallow grave about 1 mile from where Julia Woodward had been discovered in March of the same year.

Smith was last seen on October 28, 1978, att he Circus-Circus Hotel in Reno, Nevada. She had been a reported missing person from Reno Police.

This agency is actively seeking anyone who may have knowledge about this case.

 

[Stephen2016]

I started searching missing and unsolved homicides in NV since we found the Robert Evans shoe shop connection. Maybe he was in Nevada and then traveled to NH.

Could this be middle child's mom???

Quick facts:
- 17yr old, Jeannie Smith, Skeletal Remains found nov. '79.. was missing since Oct. '78
- Resembles middle child (pic below)
- Died of blunt force trauma
- Lemmon Valley, Reno NV which lines up with isotopes of middle child (including pics below)

Detailed facts below from: https://www.washoesheriff.com/sub.php?page=unsolved-homicides

Victim: Jeannie Smith
Location: Lemmon Valley
Date of Occurrence: November 02, 1979

Synopsis:
On November 02, 1979 the skeletal remains of Jeannie Smith, age 17, were found in Lemmon Valley, Nevada,North of Reno. She died as a result of blunt force trauma. Her remains were found in a shallow grave about 1 mile from where Julia Woodward had been discovered in March of the same year.

Smith was last seen on October 28, 1978, att he Circus-Circus Hotel in Reno, Nevada. She had been a reported missing person from Reno Police.

This agency is actively seeking anyone who may have knowledge about this

right now I'm Leaning on either the bio childs mother being from Redwood City California area or the Phoenix Arizona area. Seems a great amount of time was spent in those areas after he left the service: And the isotope mapping seems to exclude Texas.

As for the 2 year old and 6 month old ...I think I heard something similar but when he was in California in 1984/1985 as Kimball,,, but I'm just learning more about this case ; It almost seems like every other day. So I tend to focus on what I think I know and what I believe to be accurate.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

OMG Feb 80 - (2) year old & (6) month old

(2) Year Old - Estimated birth year 1977-1978 Could also back into 1977 as that we do not know at the time he stated two year old if her birthday had or had not passed.
(6) Month Old - Estimated birth year 1979

That is 2 kids... the 6 month old cannot be Dawn / Elizabeth since she was born 05/1981 .

This is a whole new wrench thrown in ... so is it possible another body was in what they cleaned up from the property years later after 2000 ? ... after finding bodies in 1985 and then in 2000 shouldn't they have gone over that entire property and it's contents with a microscope ? Or maybe it wasn't in the budget.

Am I missing something ?

I'll try to get back to your questions in a bit , right now I am floored by the number of children in 1980

I'm sorry, trying to catch up. Can you tell me where the 1980 comes from?

 

[Alleykins]

msphilosopher, it would be worth dropping the Reno PD a line. This falls in line with my line of thinking, that the mother of the middle child may be a murder victim, that's why no one seems to be looking for her (meaning the middle child).

 

[Stephen2016]

I'm sorry, trying to catch up. Can you tell me where the 1980 comes from?

msphilosopher

Registered User

Join DateJan 2017Posts1,030​

Pulling this post forward from thread 2, post #469 by folieadeuxnola: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...000-s-2/page44

1980 - New Hampshire

• (January 9th) – New Hampshire, Manchester - Robert T/C “Bob” Evans (DOB 6/22/44) – Certified letter sent to his Hayward address letter was signed for by an Elizabeth Evans
• (February) – New Hampshire, Manchester- Robert T/C “Bob” Evans (DOB 6/22/44) - Arrested for worthless checks; listed spouse as Elizabeth - Referenced having a 2 years old and a 6 Month old
• (June) – New Hampshire, Manchester - Robert T/C “Bob” Evans (DOB 6/22/44) - Arrested for Electrical Power Theft (Diverting Power); listed spouse as Elizabeth
• (October) – New Hampshire, Manchester - Robert T/C “Bob” Evans (DOB 6/22/44)
- Arrested for Electrical Power theft (Diverting Power); no spouse listed.


Feb 80 - (2) year old & (6) month old

(2) Year Old - Estimated birth year 1977-1978 Could also back into 1977 as that we do not know at the time he stated two year old if her birthday had or had not passed.
(6) Month Old - Estimated birth year ..."
​

I maybe misunderstanding....

 

[msphilosopher]

msphilosopher, it would be worth dropping the Reno PD a line. This falls in line with my line of thinking, that the mother of the middle child may be a murder victim, that's why no one seems to be looking for her (meaning the middle child).

Agreed, it might be better to submit a tip to Allenstown investigators. Reno PD might take it more seriously coming from another PD agency.

 

[Stephen2016]

Reason I'm wondering in part is because of this :

Rasmussen was arrested on April 30, 1973, by the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office in Phoenix, Arizona, on a fugitive from justice charge. Police hope the mugshot from his 1973 arrest may lead to additional tips from the public.
An arrest for aggravated assault on June 11, 1975, however, paints a different picture.
Rasmussen's 1975 arrest shifts an important piece of his timeline forward a couple of years. Officials said that in 1975 or 1976, he was seen with an unidentified woman by his family in Arizona, two or three years later than originally thought.
"..... Originally : December 1974: Rasmussen unexpectedly visits wife and children in Payson, Ariz., in the company of an unidentified female. He indicates he is living at the Casa Del Rey Apartments in Ingleside, Texas. It’s the last time his family sees him.
...."
So was he in Arizona from 1973 to 1975/76. I thought he went to visit his kids around christmas time of 1974 or 75/76 now?
If he was in Arizona in 1976 and his bio-child was 3-4 ... that is in 1979/1980 for his bio-child to be about that estimated age. I'm thinking his child might be from the Arizona area.. I think it fits the isotope map? Either AZ or California pretty sure also he and Fleta were in Redwood City in 1971 ... There was a listing for Fleta in that area .. Then when she filed for divorce she petitioned in 1977 in San Mateo California area.

So seems to me he spent some time in that area.. possibly enough time to meet someone one and have a another child that would be about 3 or 4 years of age when Sadly she died .

 

[msphilosopher]

Some other interesting facts I found about Jeannie:

- Suspected she may have been killed by an unknown serial killer
- Blunt force trauma, multiple skull fractures due to blows to the back of her head (matches to allenstown victims IIRC)
- Was last seen by her co worker who said she left with a white male, sandy blonde hair, tall, and looked like a construction worker. She also said they "very friendly" together.... probably the 1970s way of alluding to them being romantically involved
- Reno HS drop out... couldn't find any details of why she dropped out, e.g. pregnancy
- One article said she was a Reno native, another article said she was a native of Hermiston, Ore
- She was working as a waitress at the circus circus hotel casino
- Thought to be a runaway ... don't hold much onto that one since probably all missing 17yos in the 70's were thought to be runaways
- Her missing person investigation was closed two months before her remains were found because her parents moved away -- I found that odd
- Also her mother's name, coincidentally is the same name as the daughter of Robert J Evans (the shoe store guy) -- RJE is old enough to have been Jeannie's gpa, crazy coincidence but then again it wouldn't surprise me if TR stole the identity of his bio daughter's great gpa.

sources:
Reno Gazette - Nov. 9, 1979
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/151049645/
Reno Gazette - July 2008
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/149469898/
Reno Gazette - Nov. 13, 1979
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/151052326/


Does anyone have newspapers.com subscription? Seems like most articles I read on Jeannie were cut off because I don't have subscription.

 

[msphilosopher]

Detectives think it's possible Julia Woodward and Jeannie Smith were killed by the same person. Blunt force trauma, found within a mile of each other

Potential victim of TR:
Julia Woodward -
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?275036-NV-Julia-Woodward-21-Washoe-County-1979

 

[Alleykins]

Here is the isotope map of the middle child. The red box areas are the most likely/probable places where she was raised/lived until she came to NH, which was 2 weeks to three months prior to her death. The other areas are possibilities, but not as likely as the areas in the boxes.