Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 #10 *Arrest*

[Chris_Texas]

BBM

Chris Texas, what is your source for this statement?

There was a news report, perhaps in this thread (too lazy to look) saying esentially that. As this report only makes sense -- tiny town, girl suddenly dead, cops and DA saying nothing -- I see no reason to doubt it.

Hell, I am a pretty level headed guy, I don't scare easily and I would like to think that I was not over-protective of my daughter when she was Celina's age, but even with all that I damn sure would be alarmed if something likethis had happened in my town. And more, I would want some answers from the police. To be honest (and blunt), I am not terribly impressed with their handling of this case thus far.

 

[Chris_Texas]

And remember that they haven't even called this a homicide yet. As of now, they're still calling it 'suspicious', but that covers a lot of ground.

Any death from something other than obvious natural causes is suspicious. And while it is nice of the DA's office to point this out, their job is to do a bit more than say "Ayup, that sure is odd."

 

[MarthaM]

Snipping for length:

I think we all know that if a certain person would be arrested today he would be found not competent to stand trial (heck he is in a mental institute now), so what the state or Attorney General might be doing is waiting until he is released from the mental institute before charging him with the crime (that is if the evidence points to this person).

That doesn't make sense to me because whether a person is competent to stand trial or not isn't determined by whether they're in a psychiatric hospital or anyplace else when they're arrested or charged. And having been in a psych hospital doesn't mean that you're automatically deemed not competent to stand trial. It doesn't work that way. A person could never have been in one and could be found not competent for trial, and someone who has been in one could be ruled competent.

I'm not in the 'SF is guilty' camp anyway. I haven't seen anything that points to him (or to anyone else, for that matter).

Joe Friday's post would explain the silence of Mom and close aquaintenances.

I think each of us interprets silence in different ways, just as each of us interprets things that are said out loud differently. If I were 'Mom' or a close acquaintance, you bet I'd keep my mouth shut. There's been enough prying already, I wouldn't care to invite more. Look at what's been said about everybody in that house so far, based on next to nothing. Just imagine if any of them actually talked!

To be honest (and blunt), I am not terribly impressed with their handling of this case thus far.

Neither am I. Although I probably can't say 'their handling' since really only the AAG has been in the spotlight. Perhaps there are detectives and investigators who are doing their job well, but they're just invisible to us.

 

[Chris_Texas]

I get what your saying but my post was in relation to why they are asking for the publics help and what they mean by that.

It means that they have no case at this point. That's really it. They are offering to pay people money to help them.

Nothing to do with if he has a lawyer or would be able to talk if he had one.

LE is playing nice with him IMO. Trying to compell him to talk. I really dont think they think he will confess.

Well, if he did it he MIGHT confess. It's possible.

It is a stale mate at this point and the plea's for the help are IMO a stratagy.

The infamous Desperation Strategy.

They are not asking for people to tell them what they know -- people have been telling them what they know from minute one and it apparently hasn't helped them. Now they are offering to PAY MONEY. Big difference.

I am not sure he is a suspect but I am sure if he hasnt talked to them ,they want to talk to him because thats is how investigators work. Over and over they will come and ask you the same questions ,different ways an in different enviroments.

So suspect or not..imo this case isnt going anywhere until he is spoken too ..they need to hear whatever it is he has to say as he was the last person to see her and without knowing what he has to say it leaves the case a bit in the dark ..JMO.

Considering he apparently spoke to the media, and the police were not initially saying he was uncooperative, I am fairly confident that the police have spoken to him previously. And at this point, guilty or not, he would be nuts to talk to the police again. Assuming he is innocent (and we have to assume that at this point, forum rules if nothing else) there is no reason to believe that he has any fresh information to offer, but there is plenty of cause for caution. You don't need to be a Paranoid Schiztophrenic to believe that cops desperate enough to offer cash money for a conviction might well have a bit of tunnel-vision when it comes to suspects.

 

[bstnh1]

Voluntary Admissions

To be eligible for a voluntary admission to the Hospital a person must meet the following criteria:

Be referred by a regional community mental health program (CMHP); and
Have been certified by the CMHP as eligible for community mental health services; and
If a guardian has been appointed the guardian may admit with the prior approval of the probate court or if no prior probate court approval, the guardian may admit to NHH provided the guardian has the authority to determine where the ward shall live and a psychiatrist licensed to practice in NH has certified in writing that placement at NHH is in the ward's best interests and is the least restrictive placement available; and
If the person does not have a guardian, the person shall make an informed decision to consent to voluntary admission; and
The voluntary admission has received the prior written approval of the NHH Chief Medical Director or designee.

 

[bstnh1]

I'm still not joining the "hang the SF" crowd. There's nothing that I see which strongly points to him. However, there is another resident of the house that bears watching.

 

[Pensfan]

Is there a law in NH that prevents LE speaking to "him"??? Just because someone is in a "Medical" facility, doesn't automatically prevent one from speaking with LE does it? Could be that LE has talked w/him and he really is incapable of communication. I don't think he was home that evening while Celina and Mother were watching Tv.

Also want to tell everyone what excellent posts and ideas you all have. I enjoy reading each and every one! Glad I registered.

That is an interesting thought. There is not a lot to do in that area in the evening. If you google the nearby towns + tavern or bar, you can see that there seems to be quite a few taverns in that vicinity related to the small population (like many cities in the NE).

 

[Chris_Texas]

I'm still not joining the "hang the SF" crowd. There's nothing that I see which strongly points to him. However, there is another resident of the house that bears watching.

I agree.

 

[theirmommy]

I am a newbie here. First post. I have been watching this case since it happened. I am hoping for some answers soon from the toxicology report and any other reports that may have been done. Mostly I am praying for some justice for Celina and some closure for those that loved her.

 

[Texsun]

I agree Pensfan, bars close to the house! I believe someone frequented these establishments and was a regular! I believe something rather sinister was going on in the house and had been for at least a few months and apparently went un-noticed as it pertained to the girls. I grew up in New England, my father was a so called "regular" and I know what that is like. If Celina was living within this type of regimen, I feel very sorry for her.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

I am a newbie here. First post. I have been watching this case since it happened. I am hoping for some answers soon from the toxicology report and any other reports that may have been done. Mostly I am praying for some justice for Celina and some closure for those that loved her.

i am right there with you waiting, theirmommy. welcome to ws. i'm glad you're here.

 

[Texsun]

Hi theirmommy, new also! Hope you enjoy as much as I have these last few days! I'm still learning how to navigate around and learning the do's and don't's. Maybe some will help us and share some tips! welcome!

 

[Texsun]

Chris Texas, you have some awesome posts and I agree with you, although after I read and considered "Joe Friday's" posts I saw another angle in regard to LE. It could be a waiting game since really, no one is going anywhere. Where would they go?

I'm also with you on the idea that there is more than one involved. I don't feel the perp acted alone throughout the whole ordeal. IMO, Someone knows more and could be protecting themself and themself only.

 

[Kiln Wood]

Voluntary Admissions

To be eligible for a voluntary admission to the Hospital a person must meet the following criteria:

Be referred by a regional community mental health program (CMHP); and
Have been certified by the CMHP as eligible for community mental health services; and
If a guardian has been appointed the guardian may admit with the prior approval of the probate court or if no prior probate court approval, the guardian may admit to NHH provided the guardian has the authority to determine where the ward shall live and a psychiatrist licensed to practice in NH has certified in writing that placement at NHH is in the ward's best interests and is the least restrictive placement available; and
If the person does not have a guardian, the person shall make an informed decision to consent to voluntary admission; and
The voluntary admission has received the prior written approval of the NHH Chief Medical Director or designee.

Not to muddy the waters, but the person I believe is under discussion here as a current patient has entitlement to use certain federal medical facilities and thus can be transferred upon the patient's request (or demand, if you will) at any time to any VA medical center anywhere in the VA system or to any uniformed services hospital or medical center in the continental United States (CONUS)--and that request must be honored because, to the best of my knowledge, that person is not currently under any judicial restraint.....

 

[Kiln Wood]

I am a newbie here. First post. I have been watching this case since it happened. I am hoping for some answers soon from the toxicology report and any other reports that may have been done. Mostly I am praying for some justice for Celina and some closure for those that loved her.

WELCOME, theirmommy!!
.....and thank you!

 

[JeannieC]

I am a newbie here. First post. I have been watching this case since it happened. I am hoping for some answers soon from the toxicology report and any other reports that may have been done. Mostly I am praying for some justice for Celina and some closure for those that loved her.

:welcome5::Banane37:

 

[katydid23]

Not to muddy the waters, but the person I believe is under discussion here as a current patient has entitlement to use certain federal medical facilities and thus can be transferred upon the patient's request (or demand, if you will) at any time to any VA medical center anywhere in the VA system or to any uniformed services hospital or medical center in the continental United States (CONUS)--and that request must be honored because, to the best of my knowledge, that person is not currently under any judicial restraint.....

I don't know. The Veterans administration moves pretty darn slow. They are hindered by bureaucratic sludge at every turn. And I bet if the police department made it known that their patient was the prime suspect in a child's murder case [ IF he is and I am not convinced yet] --then they could make the wheels turn pretty slow.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Chris Texas, you have some awesome posts and I agree with you, although after I read and considered "Joe Friday's" posts I saw another angle in regard to LE. It could be a waiting game since really, no one is going anywhere. Where would they go?

Considering that this death has not been ruled a homocide, and step-dad is not currently named as even a person or interest, let alone a suspect in this non-crime, the answer to the question is simple:

He can go anywhere he likes, including out of the country.

I read Joe's theory. With all respect to Joe, I don't think it makes sense. First, this guy's post-crime psychiatric issues would not automatically preclude him being considered competent to stand trial -- that's something for the psychiatric experts and lawyers and the judge to determine. Anyway, even if the guy is a gibbering lunatic (not saying he is) then worst case (from the police perspective, and again assuming he did it which I am by no means convinced of) he could be formally charged and the trial delayed until he becomes competent.

If they had the evidence to charge someone they would do so.

I'm also with you on the idea that there is more than one involved. I don't feel the perp acted alone throughout the whole ordeal. IMO, Someone knows more and could be protecting themself and themself only.

I do not have an opinion on how many people were involved or know something. I don't really have an opinion as to what happened here... it could have been a suicide, accident, murder, anything. If we are gonna talk about statistics, then sure, it was probably a homocide, and if so it was almost certainly committed by someone in the home. Further, statistically, if it was murder the crime took place in the residence. And if so, I would GUESS that whoever might have done it, others know or suspect.

It is interesting to note that the cause of death is undermined in about 3% of all autopsies performed nationwide (note that in the Anthony case no autopsy was performed as there was nothing to autopsy, and yet even so a cause of death was produced). So it is pretty unusual. However, there is an intersting thing....

http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/suppl_2/ii49.full

"Much of the difficulty in conceptualizing and measuring violent death lies in the implicit nature of intentionality, particularly for suicide. Perhaps stemming from this difficulty, a number of studies have concluded that suicides are underreported because of the misallocation of suicide verdicts to other manners of death, such as the “accidental” or undetermined classifications..." Note: that was a teaser, read the report.

Here is another link, make of this what you will:

http://www.livescience.com/4445-mystery-deaths-plague-coroners.html

 

[Kiln Wood]

I don't know. The Veterans administration moves pretty darn slow. They are hindered by bureaucratic sludge at every turn. And I bet if the police department made it known that their patient was the prime suspect in a child's murder case [ IF he is and I am not convinced yet] --then they could make the wheels turn pretty slow.

katydid23,I do not know to what aspect of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs you are referring (perhaps applying for and receiving disability compensation benefits?), but I am referring to the VA medical centers throughout the system (even those overseas) at which any veteran (who is has an honorable discharge or a discharge under honorable conditions after serving more than 180 days on active duty) can show up at any hour of the day or night and be treated on the spot, without delay, even if that veteran is not in possession of a valid VA health services identification card.

Most unfortunately, I have been the victim of a heinous domestic violence assault in the State of New Hampshire some years ago, my late first husband was under judicial restraint (unlike the person to whom I was referring in my post which you answered), he complained of chest pains, was taken to a local hospital in New Hampshire, and then was transferred at his request to a VA medical center. There was nothing LE in New Hampshire could do but to arrange for 24-hour surveillance outside the hospital room by rotating LE officers--and they did (for the six months until he died in the VA medical center to which he was transferred and then another VA medical center which is out of state).

I am sure your suggestion that VA medical center staff "could make the wheels turn pretty slow" is not meant to impugn the dedicated men and women who staff these medical centers and provide quality healthcare to our nation's veterans.

BBM: The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs medical centers are NOT in the jurisdiction of any state or district (they are federal property), there has not any identification made of any "suspect" or person(s) of interest, and even if there were, any emergency room physician in any VA medical center has an obligation to treat any veteran without delay--even one who is under judicial restraint. Even though I'm sure your post is well intentioned, things have changed a GREAT DEAL at VA medical centers since the film "Born on the 4th of July" debuted years ago...VA healthcare, especially those medical centers affiliated with medical schools, offer the finest treatment available in this country today to the men and women who have served us so proudly and so well at great sacrifice to themselves and their families.

As I have posted on the CC threads in the past: to those veterans who read this post, thank you for your service to our country
and to Vietnam veterans, welcome home!

 

[~n/t~]

Considering that this death has not been ruled a homocide, and step-dad is not currently named as even a person or interest, let alone a suspect in this non-crime, the answer to the question is simple:

He can go anywhere he likes, including out of the country.

I read Joe's theory. With all respect to Joe, I don't think it makes sense. First, this guy's post-crime psychiatric issues would not automatically preclude him being considered competent to stand trial -- that's something for the psychiatric experts and lawyers and the judge to determine. Anyway, even if the guy is a gibbering lunatic (not saying he is) then worst case (from the police perspective, and again assuming he did it which I am by no means convinced of) he could be formally charged and the trial delayed until he becomes competent.

If they had the evidence to charge someone they would do so.



I do not have an opinion on how many people were involved or know something. I don't really have an opinion as to what happened here... it could have been a suicide, accident, murder, anything. If we are gonna talk about statistics, then sure, it was probably a homocide, and if so it was almost certainly committed by someone in the home. Further, statistically, if it was murder the crime took place in the residence. And if so, I would GUESS that whoever might have done it, others know or suspect.

It is interesting to note that the cause of death is undermined in about 3% of all autopsies performed nationwide (note that in the Anthony case no autopsy was performed as there was nothing to autopsy, and yet even so a cause of death was produced). So it is pretty unusual. However, there is an intersting thing....

http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/suppl_2/ii49.full

"Much of the difficulty in conceptualizing and measuring violent death lies in the implicit nature of intentionality, particularly for suicide. Perhaps stemming from this difficulty, a number of studies have concluded that suicides are underreported because of the misallocation of suicide verdicts to other manners of death, such as the “accidental” or undetermined classifications..." Note: that was a teaser, read the report.

Here is another link, make of this what you will:

http://www.livescience.com/4445-mystery-deaths-plague-coroners.html

There was an autopsy performed on Caylee even if it was just bones. Cause of death was undetermined because of the amount of time she was exposed to environmental conditions and all that was left were her tiny bones . MOD was homicide per Medical Examiner (Dr. G).

In Celina's case, unfortunately cause of death was undetermined as well and her death is ruled as suspicious which like you said could mean anything from murder, accident or suicide. Wish we had more answers.