Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 #10 *Arrest*

[Chris_Texas]

Yes, I read about that. I think it's odd for investigators to call a death 'suspicious' when they know it's a homicide, but perhaps that's just me. I'm more familiar with LE who call an investigation a 'homicide investigation' when they know that's what it is, regardless of whether they release details. I think it's peculiar to play word games, but again--maybe that's just me. Others might admire that.

I think it would be beyond odd.

Suspicious: you suspect something might be wrong, you are uncertain. Any death from something other than clear means falls into this broad category. Someone going camping at the lake who turns up missing and is found a week later is suspicious. A decapitated co-ed in the trunk of a car is not suspicious.

It's a possible homocide. And the idea that the police might conceal that there is someone going around killing co-eds is, in my opinion, freaking nuts.

 

[bstnh1]

Without knowing the facts of the case you are talking about, unless there is a damn good explanation for withholding information this critical from the public, than in my opinion this lady has no business in law enforcement. Withholding information like this could EASILY get someone or even many people killed.

Seriously, (and respectfully) it is hard to even imagine a scenario in which a public official or officer would have a good reason for concealing murder from the public. I am just drawing a blank here. It's insane. No one is suggesting that they have to release critical evidence (assuming that they are working the case) but that's a far cry from concealing the gravity of the crime.

Anyway... just... wow. I am seriously blown away by this revelation. It is, without any exageration, the most shocking thing I have heard about this case to date.

Quite often you hear about individuals, suspects, witnesses, POIs or others mentioning details about a case that have not been revealed to the public. The more info LE withholds, the better the chance of this happening when they are questioning someone. Unless the withholding of information during the investigation of a crime would result in putting the public in danger, I see more advantages to doing so than disadvantages.

 

[bstnh1]

I have never been there, never even seen a video of the river flowing, but it seems (to me) a bit hard to believe that it would have remained in place for a week without something holding it in place. I suppose it could though.

You're assuming Celina's body was in the river for a week before it was found. I don't believe that has been confirmed by LE. Also, the spot where her body was located on the upstream edge of the dam abutment would have close to no flow.

 

[Radichio77885]

I am still curious about the "You are Sexy" app that began appearing on Celina's FB Wall at approximately 4:13 AM on July 26. I know that subsequent posts after this time are auto-published, but obviously someone had to activate the app in the first place. Since the images on this page are clearly , there are several scenarios that one can speculate about just around the timing and rather large leap from the more innocuous "Love Percentage" app.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Even if the body was wrapped in a blanket, she could have died from an accident, natural causes, or by another's hand. The body was disposed of making the death suspicious, but not necessarily a homicide. JMO

Absolutely!

About 2.5 million people died in the US last year. About 120,000 died in accidents of all types (mostly motor vehicle accidents), about 40,000 killed themselves, and about 17,000 were murdered. In how many of the 160,000 accidents and suicide cases did the person discovering the body decide that they should conceal it? Obviously, we don't know the answer. It could and does happen, but it would be very very rare. After all, who wants to make an accident look like a murder?

But there is one group, the 17,000 murderers mentioned above, who very much like to hide the body. They have a REASON for hiding the body.

Knowing these facts (the numbers are real) would you not say that if Celina was found wrapped in a blanket and hiden in the river, that it is not incredibly likely that she was put there by her killer? Would you not say that you have no reasonable doubt about this being the most likely answer?

 

[Chris_Texas]

You're assuming Celina's body was in the river for a week before it was found. I don't believe that has been confirmed by LE. Also, the spot where her body was located on the upstream edge of the dam abutment would have close to no flow.

Good points!

 

[Chris_Texas]

True, but people in a panic also do stupid things...we'll just have to wait and see. And I did mention the possible crime of improper disposal of a body. Just know way to tell right now. I really hope that a cause of death can be determined...

There have been cases where people hid or relocated a body after an accidental or overdose death...rather than explain themselves to police. Melissa Best is one.

However, if there is a blanket I believe LE is thinking homicide and hoping to be able to prove it...

Anything is possible. No question. I am really more playing what I see as the most likely scenario. Even in the examples you gave, we are most often talking about a scenario in which a crime had taken place, someone was dead, and the survivor (or perpetrator) is attempting to hide the evidence. And once you add in that the victim is a little girl, I think the field of possible scenarios narrows considerably.

 

[joypath]

Hey Joy I love your icon. It's true for neuroscientists too. :innocent: I think I might Photoshop it and stick it somewhere in lab lol.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: GO FOR IT!:seeya: It's the logo from a T-shirt that my staff gave me in recognition of their new addiction to WS which occurred from the introduction of "THE" Florida case where a "shoddy" autopsy was NOT conducted!:rocker: (IMHO, of course!). There a a few more ("Because I'm the pathologist, that's WHY" and "trust me, I'm a pathologist") but only worn under a lab coat, prn (say perhaps when dealing with "difficult" members of the legal profession).:innocent:

 

[justanother]

Just checking in and i see we have nothing new. I hope Celina's case is solved soon.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Quite often you hear about individuals, suspects, witnesses, POIs or others mentioning details about a case that have not been revealed to the public. The more info LE withholds, the better the chance of this happening when they are questioning someone. Unless the withholding of information during the investigation of a crime would result in putting the public in danger, I see more advantages to doing so than disadvantages.

I am sure that you would agree that correctly labeling the crime (and the danger to the public) is not the same as releasing your evidence.

 

[joypath]

O/T but really NOT: :twocents: We've been discussing the semantics of "cop talk" regarding the death of Celina and the atmosphere has lent itself to appear that the behavior of the NH law & legal community were "unique". WELL, here's a tidbit from "down South a ways" that demonstrates the same and fresh off the presses: http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2011/08/28/news/doc4e5906f273ec0673281342.txt


Body of young woman found in New Haven's Wooster Square

seeya: for "those in the know", this is a very quiet section of town/city, "Little Italyish" where the famous Pepe's & Sally's pizzas are made!).

NEW HAVEN — Police are investigating a possible homicide in the city’s Wooster Square neighborhood Saturday.

Police now are calling the incident only a “suspicious death.”
If the death is ruled a homicide......


:rocker: Now the CS techs/OCME tech were present for most of the morning investigating and this death will be investigated as if it IS a homicide but remains discussed (per se) in the media as suspicious & untimely, also pending identification & notification of next of kin. Both teams of investigative techs continue to work & share information, the OCME techs to collect anything that will assist in establishing a definitive MOD:innocent:

 

[Morag]

You're assuming Celina's body was in the river for a week before it was found. I don't believe that has been confirmed by LE. Also, the spot where her body was located on the upstream edge of the dam abutment would have close to no flow.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...6&🤬🤬🤬=breaking

Young declined to say whether there were any suspects in the girl’s death.
"We have made no determination on where her body was eventually put in the river," she said.

This phrasing sounds as if there was an interval between the committing of the crime and the disposal of the remains in the river.

 

[Kaybug]

My take on this and I have not read every post on all the threads about this case.

If LE had info that there was a danger to the public it would be their responisbility to let the public know that.

I believe LE knows very little or not enough for an arrest thus the offering of a reward.

I think if LE knows anything including method of death and cause of death, they are keeping everything to themselves in hopes someone will slip up and say something.

MOO

 

[Chris_Texas]

O/T but really NOT: :twocents: We've been discussing the semantics of "cop talk" regarding the death of Celina and the atmosphere has lent itself to appear that the behavior of the NH law & legal community were "unique". WELL, here's a tidbit from "down South a ways" that demonstrates the same and fresh off the presses: http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2011/08/28/news/doc4e5906f273ec0673281342.txt


Body of young woman found in New Haven's Wooster Square

seeya: for "those in the know", this is a very quiet section of town/city, "Little Italyish" where the famous Pepe's & Sally's pizzas are made!).

NEW HAVEN — Police are investigating a possible homicide in the city’s Wooster Square neighborhood Saturday.

Police now are calling the incident only a “suspicious death.”
If the death is ruled a homicide......


:rocker: Now the CS techs/OCME tech were present for most of the morning investigating and this death will be investigated as if it IS a homicide but remains discussed (per se) in the media as suspicious & untimely, also pending identification & notification of next of kin. Both teams of investigative techs continue to work & share information, the OCME techs to collect anything that will assist in establishing a definitive MOD:innocent:

Thanks! For some reason the link seems to be semi-broken but I am trying to find the story the old fashioned way. When did this crime take place? Also, I am betting that you have a personal and probably professional opinion on this quesion/issue. If the medical examiner and/or police had evidence that strongly indicated that a death was homocide, would it be normal and ethical to conceal this information from the public?

NOTE: No one has suggested that this has happened here.

 

[Wholehearted]

I am sure that you would agree that correctly labeling the crime (and the danger to the public) is not the same as releasing your evidence.

I think it could be, though. If LE hasn't released whether or not Celina's death was a homicide, then if they know the manner of death, that knowledge is akin to evidence. If someone says something that reveals accurate knowledge of how she died, that could point LE in the direction of the responsible person or persons.

If I were a resident of Celina's hometown, I could see being frustrated by LE not sharing what they might know about the manner of death. I mean, I'd like to know, but knowing won't influence how I lead my life, as it could for someone who lives there.

 

[joypath]

Thanks! For some reason the link seems to be semi-broken but I am trying to find the story the old fashioned way. When did this crime take place? Also, I am betting that you have a personal and probably professional opinion on this quesion/issue. If the medical examiner and/or police had evidence that strongly indicated that a death was homocide, would it be normal and ethical to conceal this information from the public?

NOTE: No one has suggested that this has happened here.

Chris: hope this link works better! :innocent:

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2011/08/27/news/doc4e5906f273ec0673281342.txt


BBM! #1. Saturday 8/27/2011 was the date the body was discovered, the date of death is undetermined as of this posting.
#2. OH yeah!
IBM/U Here's the point of this issue IMHO: it is the obligation of members of any profession to give the public the FACTS as they can be established vs hypothetical thoughts. :innocent: Given any death scene, there are general lessons or information points that can be shared with the general public as in "please keep aware of your surroundings at all times, travel with your vehicle's doors locked, park your vehicle in a secure/lit area.....etc" without providing specifics of a particular investigative case. :innocent:The other "danger" in death scenes is "jumping to conclusions" as folks who commented on the local area TV station report did! http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/new_haven_cty/suspicous-death-in-new-haven :maddening: BTW: I'm not willing to give the copywriter a break with the "headline" on the WTNH link, Hurricane Irene or NOT, that statement is/was baffling!

 

[cluciano63]

Where I live, the media often reports news of a "suspicious" death but it is almost always clarified, often the next day, usually to homicide or accidental. I can't remember a case going this long (other than Rebecca N. on "Crimes in the News") where LE has not established for the public whether or not a death is a murder. JMO

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Hope you all are safe and not being treated too badly by Irene!

I just got power back, yay!

 

[cluciano63]

Where I live, the media often reports news of a "suspicious" death but it is almost always clarified, often the next day, usually to homicide or accidental. I can't remember a case going this long (other than Rebecca N. on "Crimes in the News") where LE has not established for the public whether or not a death is a murder. JMO

Not to quote myself, but it was too late to edit, just wanted to add, unless of course they don't know (whether it is murder or not.)

 

[Chris_Texas]

I think it could be, though. If LE hasn't released whether or not Celina's death was a homicide, then if they know the manner of death, that knowledge is akin to evidence. If someone says something that reveals accurate knowledge of how she died, that could point LE in the direction of the responsible person or persons.

If I were a resident of Celina's hometown, I could see being frustrated by LE not sharing what they might know about the manner of death. I mean, I'd like to know, but knowing won't influence how I lead my life, as it could for someone who lives there.

If you were the parent of a young girl, or perhaps any parent, knowing that the police suspect a child murderer is loose in your town probably would influence how you lead your life.

If the police and medical examiners have evidence that this is a homocide they have an ethical (and likely professional) obligation to inform the public. They do not need to offer details, theories, evidence, but they do (in my opinion) need to inform the public. There are only a couple reasons I can think of for concealing this. The first is if they are anticipating making an immediate arrest, where notifying the public is unnecessary and risks tipping off the bad guy.

The second instance is more cynical. A suspected homocide tells the public that a crime took place -- the most serious crime there is. The public expects to see some results. A suspicious death, on the other hand, there's no evidence a crime took place at all. Failing to prosecute the first is a big deal politically. Failing to prosecute the second? Not so much. What is there to prosecute...