Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 #10 *Arrest*

[cluciano63]

I am getting the impression that LE is really counting on those tox results.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Totally off topic, but somehow this song seemed to appropriate for this case.

Terry Reid - To Be Treated Rite [Very high quality] - YouTube

Oh we are what we are when in danger
And we are as we stand head in hand
When a friend brings to light
On a cold silver night
You can stare your fate right into his hand
-into his hand

Oh we are what we are when we're made to
Be the soul-owning guardians of land
And there's always advice
On a cold winter's night
That your dreams are just an island in the sands
--Way out in the sand

Don't it seem so strange
How it just don't change, yeah
Things just stay the same
As they've always been
Some of us are out to win
And some of us are out just to aim
Just out to aim

Oh we are what we are when we're praying
In our own way of seeking some light
May the mission bell still ring
Of the colourful dreams
In the hope that everyone will be treated right

Will be treated right
On a cold cold night
Will be treated right
In a hopeless fight
Will be treated right, yeah
Will be treat right
On a cold, cold, cold, night
Will be treated right

 

[iamnotagolem]

I really thought when this hit the news that it seemed so open and shut, the SF seemed guilty. But here we are a month later and no COD, no MOD, no POI, no arrests, and I'm wondering if there was a crime.

If this is a homicide, I don't know why it hasn't been reported to the public. If this is a homicide, I don't know how the mother isn't in the media pleading for the killer(s) to be brought to justice.

I keep thinking about little Celina and thinking if this was my little girl, I'd be outraged that there seems to be nothing happening.

 

[Magdalyn]

Just checking in...

I wandered over to Facebook and ... is this old news or a new development...
KM's page ... his 'wall' is still open to the public, but all the posts are gone. Weren't there sporadic posts before?

Also, his pictures are set to private now. Mildly interesting since he didn't seem in a hurry to go 'private' initially.

Sorry if this is old news! :crazy:

 

[deelytful1]

FB changed their "format" once again so when you logged in, you had the option to delete all "old posts" I'm sure it was an option to save them bandwith! But, yeah.. further sleuthing will be difficult for any case after this new FB change.

 

[Kiln Wood]

I really thought when this hit the news that it seemed so open and shut, the SF seemed guilty. But here we are a month later and no COD, no MOD, no POI, no arrests, and I'm wondering if there was a crime.

If this is a homicide, I don't know why it hasn't been reported to the public. If this is a homicide, I don't know how the mother isn't in the media pleading for the killer(s) to be brought to justice.

I keep thinking about little Celina and thinking if this was my little girl, I'd be outraged that there seems to be nothing happening.

iamnotagolem,

BBM

is still in a hospital or medical center (psychiatric or otherwise).

UBL

because either she knows or has been told by LE who the killer is and has been assured (or reassured, as the case may be) that the killer WILL be "brought to justice" in the due course of time.

IBM
--that we know of.

The bolded, underlined, and italicized areas represent pure speculation on my part.....

Thank you for an interesting post.

 

[JeannieC]

iamnotagolem,

BBM

is still in a hospital or medical center (psychiatric or otherwise).

UBL

because either she knows or has been told by LE who the killer is and has been assured (or reassured, as the case may be) that the killer WILL be "brought to justice" in the due course of time.

IBM
--that we know of.

The bolded, underlined, and italicized areas represent pure speculation on my part.....

Thank you for an interesting post.

I honestly think they have the tox reports and are waiting for the SF to get out of the hospital to question him. Either that or they really don't know anything. I wonder if the tox reports were inconclusive..............

 

[Kiln Wood]

I assume here you are talking about step-dad in the mental hospital as a "what if" hypothetical? I would assume (not an expert) that the police would likely arrest him and place him in custody either there at that hospital or in their jail. Assuming that they have this evidence, and I do not believe they do, it's not like they really gain anything by leaving him in there.

If he is arrested the psych guys and lawyers will all get together with the judge to decide if he is competent to stand trial. This competency hearing (whatever it is called) is not going to hinge on the guy's location when arrested, but upon the expert testimony of the medical professionals who interview him. This hearing, as I understand it, is to essentially determine if the guy is 'with it' enough to understand and participate in his trial. Even if he voluntarily left, supposedly cured, someone could claim that the shock of arrest caused him to have a relapse. If anything, an extended stay might hurt here.

Nor will a stay, extended or brief, help much with an insanity defense at the trial. His mental state at the time of the crime is the question there, not his mental state following. I am FAR less concerned about this than other issues. If the killer (whoever this is -- assuming there is one) is judged to be insane then he probably really is, and he deserves to be treated with whatever compassion and care the justice system deems appropriate. In any case he will be heading to a jail of some kind, and likely for a long long long time.




Thanks! Glad you are back with us.

Chris_Texas,

I am not sure how familiar you are with LE in the State of New Hampshire vis a vis hospitals or medical centers in NH. Having said that, I have a total of 13 years living there and I have the most unfortunate experience of being a domestic violence victim on three different occasions over the course of four years including one incident in which my late first husband attempted to drag me from the crowded lobby of a restaurant by the hair (short) on the crown of my head. For the record, I found LE at all levels in NH to be very supportive of me as a domestic violence victim; I am alive today only because of the collective efforts of NH and federal LE and the judiciary.

I also am not sure how familiar you are with the patient care operations of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs medical centers and domiciliary care facilities.

In neither a NH hospital/medical center or a VA medical center or domiciliary care facility can LE just enter a building and place a patient under arrest.

It simply does not work that way in a hospital/medical center in NH or in a VA healthcare facility. The attending physician is the ultimate decision maker as to whether or not LE can have access to any patient under his/her care. As a matter of record, LE can (and oftentimes does) station a guard outside a patient's room 24/7, but not in a VA healthcare facility where only federal LE is permitted.

I am addressing only the first part of your post and it is only speculation on my part that any of what I've written is actuality. I also want to make clear that the body of my experience on this subject ended in 2000 when my late husband died while under judicial restraint; things may have changed since then. I'll do some research and post again by the end of the week if I learn of any pertinent changes.

The rest of your post is, as usual, insightful and very interesting--THANK YOU

 

[Kiln Wood]

If they know, why are they offering a reward?

cluciano63, Because knowledge is one thing, and the ability to obtain a conviction with clear and convincing evidence that meets the burden of proof is something else? A reward may very well bring forth more information that will buttress their case?

Don't know for sure (moved furniture today, and just responded to a post by Chris_Texas which tapped out whatever the day's remains of mental reserves I had left) so please excuse me if my reply is lacking in any way.....

 

[cluciano63]

Lots of people seem convinced that LE knows Celina was murdered, but LE refuses to say so...why would they do this? What would they gain by not saying this is indeed a murder? I don't get it...I don't think they know for sure, JMO.

 

[LisRho]

Lots of people seem convinced that LE knows Celina was murdered, but LE refuses to say so...why would they do this? What would they gain by not saying this is indeed a murder? I don't get it...I don't think they know for sure, JMO.

This is the way NH LE works.

They keep things under the hat until it goes to court. It helps them build a stronger case, if there is indeed a case.

 

[liljim]

they have had the toxicology results for some time now.

 

[cluciano63]

they have had the toxicology results for some time now.

And???????????
What makes you say this?

 

[Chris_Texas]

Chris_Texas,

I am not sure how familiar you are with LE in the State of New Hampshire vis a vis hospitals or medical centers in NH. Having said that, I have a total of 13 years living there and I have the most unfortunate experience of being a domestic violence victim on three different occasions over the course of four years including one incident in which my late first husband attempted to drag me from the crowded lobby of a restaurant by the hair (short) on the crown of my head. For the record, I found LE at all levels in NH to be very supportive of me as a domestic violence victim; I am alive today only because of the collective efforts of NH and federal LE and the judiciary.

I am sorry you had to go through this.

I also am not sure how familiar you are with the patient care operations of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs medical centers and domiciliary care facilities.

I am not familiar at all.

In neither a NH hospital/medical center or a VA medical center or domiciliary care facility can LE just enter a building and place a patient under arrest.

Speculating here...

I am admittedly unfamiliar with NH police and what not but I suspect that there are some very complicated issues with all this for both the police and the doctors. With that said, it seems REALLY hard to believe that the minute a criminal crosses the hospital doorway he can safely turn and thumb his nose at any police in hot pursuit. It is equally hard to imagine that the police are unable to serve an arrest warrant or detain a suspect in a NH hospital.

Obviously the police are not going to haul someone to jail if doing so goes against a doctor's orders or doing so would threaten someone's life, but they could certainly place them into custody at the hospital and station officers to ensure they stay put.

It simply does not work that way in a hospital/medical center in NH or in a VA healthcare facility. The attending physician is the ultimate decision maker as to whether or not LE can have access to any patient under his/her care. As a matter of record, LE can (and oftentimes does) station a guard outside a patient's room 24/7, but not in a VA healthcare facility where only federal LE is permitted.

The deptartment of defense and the veteran's administration cooperate with all government agencies, including LE agencies at all levels. In a case like this I suspect the Veteran's Administration Department of Veteran's Affairs Police would detain the suspect until he was transfered to local or NH State Police.

But again, I don't really know.

I am addressing only the first part of your post and it is only speculation on my part that any of what I've written is actuality. I also want to make clear that the body of my experience on this subject ended in 2000 when my late husband died while under judicial restraint; things may have changed since then. I'll do some research and post again by the end of the week if I learn of any pertinent changes.

The rest of your post is, as usual, insightful and very interesting--THANK YOU

I am really very interested to hear what you discover.

 

[Chris_Texas]

cluciano63, Because knowledge is one thing, and the ability to obtain a conviction with clear and convincing evidence that meets the burden of proof is something else? A reward may very well bring forth more information that will buttress their case?

Don't know for sure (moved furniture today, and just responded to a post by Chris_Texas which tapped out whatever the day's remains of mental reserves I had left) so please excuse me if my reply is lacking in any way.....

:innocent: :innocent: :innocent:

 

[cluciano63]

I'm sorry...I think a community has the right to know if there has been a child murder in their town. They don't have to know if LE has a suspect, or any details, but they should know that much. If LE is holding that back, they had better hope another crime is not committed while they sit on their knowledge, if that is the case.

 

[Hardymum]

I am sorry you had to go through this.



I am not familiar at all.



Speculating here...

I am admittedly unfamiliar with NH police and what not but I suspect that there are some very complicated issues with all this for both the police and the doctors. With that said, it seems REALLY hard to believe that the minute a criminal crosses the hospital doorway he can safely turn and thumb his nose at any police in hot pursuit. It is equally hard to imagine that the police are unable to serve an arrest warrant or detain a suspect in a NH hospital.

Obviously the police are not going to haul someone to jail if doing so goes against a doctor's orders or doing so would threaten someone's life, but they could certainly place them into custody at the hospital and station officers to ensure they stay put.



The deptartment of defense and the veteran's administration cooperate with all government agencies, including LE agencies at all levels. In a case like this I suspect the Veteran's Administration Department of Veteran's Affairs Police would detain the suspect until he was transfered to local or NH State Police.

But again, I don't really know.



I am really very interested to hear what you discover.

I found this interesting. #2 under the definition of "fugitive felon", especially.

http://www.va.gov/healtheligibility/Library/pubs/FFP/FFP.pdf

 

[Hardymum]

I am sorry you had to go through this.



I am not familiar at all.



Speculating here...

I am admittedly unfamiliar with NH police and what not but I suspect that there are some very complicated issues with all this for both the police and the doctors. With that said, it seems REALLY hard to believe that the minute a criminal crosses the hospital doorway he can safely turn and thumb his nose at any police in hot pursuit. It is equally hard to imagine that the police are unable to serve an arrest warrant or detain a suspect in a NH hospital.

Obviously the police are not going to haul someone to jail if doing so goes against a doctor's orders or doing so would threaten someone's life, but they could certainly place them into custody at the hospital and station officers to ensure they stay put.



The deptartment of defense and the veteran's administration cooperate with all government agencies, including LE agencies at all levels. In a case like this I suspect the Veteran's Administration Department of Veteran's Affairs Police would detain the suspect until he was transfered to local or NH State Police.

But again, I don't really know.



I am really very interested to hear what you discover.

I found this interesting. #2 under the definition of "fugitive felon", especially.

http://www.va.gov/healtheligibility/Library/pubs/FFP/FFP.pdf


this is also from the VA benefits website:

What inpatient services are available under CHAMPVA for mental health
disorder benefits?
• Acute care to include room, board, and other hospital services –
preauthorization is required from the CHAMPVA mental health contractor.
• 30 days for beneficiaries ages 19 and over, per fiscal year (October 1
through September 30) or during a single episode of care.
• 45 days per fiscal year for acute inpatient care for beneficiaries ages
18 or younger.
• The CHAMPVA mental health contractor may consider a waiver of the
30/45-day limit.
• Inpatient psychotherapy is limited to seven sessions per week. More

 

[deelytful1]

AND... unfortunately the only news from MSM is:

There are still no answers as to how an 11-year-old girl in New Hampshire's north country died.

Celina Cass' body was pulled from the Connecticut River about a month ago.

Officials had hoped to have the toxicology results back last week to determine the cause of death, but that didn't happen.

They say it is not unusual for toxicology results to take up to eight weeks.

http://www.wcax.com/story/15364804/no-toxicology-results-yet-in-cass-death

 

[STEADFAST]

Chris_Texas,

I am not sure how familiar you are with LE in the State of New Hampshire vis a vis hospitals or medical centers in NH. Having said that, I have a total of 13 years living there and I have the most unfortunate experience of being a domestic violence victim on three different occasions over the course of four years including one incident in which my late first husband attempted to drag me from the crowded lobby of a restaurant by the hair (short) on the crown of my head. For the record, I found LE at all levels in NH to be very supportive of me as a domestic violence victim; I am alive today only because of the collective efforts of NH and federal LE and the judiciary.

I also am not sure how familiar you are with the patient care operations of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs medical centers and domiciliary care facilities.

In neither a NH hospital/medical center or a VA medical center or domiciliary care facility can LE just enter a building and place a patient under arrest.

It simply does not work that way in a hospital/medical center in NH or in a VA healthcare facility. The attending physician is the ultimate decision maker as to whether or not LE can have access to any patient under his/her care. As a matter of record, LE can (and oftentimes does) station a guard outside a patient's room 24/7, but not in a VA healthcare facility where only federal LE is permitted.

I am addressing only the first part of your post and it is only speculation on my part that any of what I've written is actuality. I also want to make clear that the body of my experience on this subject ended in 2000 when my late husband died while under judicial restraint; things may have changed since then. I'll do some research and post again by the end of the week if I learn of any pertinent changes.

The rest of your post is, as usual, insightful and very interesting--THANK YOU

It isn't correct that only federal LE may arrest someone at a VA hospital.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/crime-courts/2011-05-30/va-hospital-arrests-common
It's a "pretty common occurrence" for veterans to be arrested at the hospital where they seek treatment, authorities say. . . Brown said that while the VA is federal property, it has a concurrence jurisdiction, which means both local and federal laws can be exercised.

Also, the degree to which a physician may hinder LE's access to a patient, especially if there is a court order, is unclear in most jurisdictions and is a controversial issue:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-160470070.html . . . law enforcement access to patients is not explicitly regulated by federal or state law, relevant professional guidelines are negligible, and medical literature on the subject is minimal . . .