GUILTY NH - Kimberly Cates, 42, dead, 11yo girl maimed, Mont Vernon, 4 Oct 2009

[IWannaKnow]

Do we know who's car was pulled from the water?

Suzi - I read that Spader's g.f. lived on that road and they were seen together in a convenience store across from her house approx. 8 hrs before the crime...also Gribble posted on myspace about how much fun he had with Steve and Autumn (the g.f.) the night before, so I am going to deduce that it was Spader's car. We will see...
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from the link in amysmom's post #50 on page 2:

"The boat ramp is just north of the intersection of Runnells Bridge Road, also known as Route 111, and less than a quarter-mile from a convenience store where accused murderer Steven W. Spader, 18, and his friend, Autumn Savoy, 19, who lives at 88 Runnells Bridge Road, often visited, said store employee and Spader"s former high school classmate Philip Archambault, 19.

Archambault said the two teens walked to the store on Saturday from Savoy"s ranch home located across Route 111.

"It just seemed to me like he had a little fire in him," Archambault said of his former classmate. Spader, a Brookline resident, wore a black sweatshirt and jeans; Savoy was dressed in a black tank top and black jeans, he said.

Spader talked about how much he enjoyed smoking marijuana and showed off the "420" that Savoy tattooed on his arm the night before in recognition of National Get High Day on April 20, he said.

"He was definitely showing it off -- definitely gloating," Archambault said.

"He said something about moving to California because the crime rates are higher there," he said.

A young man who answered the door at Savoy's home yesterday had no comment and shut the door."
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Wonder if that is why they said they were collecting evidence in Hollis...the '420 Rally' they have been doing for awhile now...

 

[trigger]

I just learned this woman was married and well liked. Her husband was away on a business trip.

I'm still surprised there was no dog. In some reports on these teenagers, they are some heartless humans.

Now I will go back to read the thread.

Very little crime there. Everyone leaves there doors unlocked, well until now.

Why ? Why ? Why ? So Senseless.

 

[IWannaKnow]

why am I not surprised ...

http://www.hudsonpd.com/offender/offender.html

WILLIAM B. MARKS??

(father of one of the perps?--look half-way down)

ETA..father of perp William Marks is James

And two fairly recent offenses. What a positive role model he must be....

Criminal History:
Sexual Assault 632-A:4 Conviction Date: 9/23/2008
Sexual Assault 632-A:4 Conviction Date: 8/21/2006

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NOT THE FATHER OF WILLIAM MARKS. As noted by amysmom above (BBM), the father's name is JAMES Marks. He can be seen in a video at WMUR.com under "suspects father shocked", doesn't even look like the same guy.

http://www.wmur.com/video/21223803/index.html

 

[amysmom]

Murder Of NH Mom & Attack On Daughter Was Random

http://wbztv.com/local/mother.murdered.mont.2.1230017.html

"The group picked a home to rob at random and agreed that if they ran into anyone, they would kill them, prosecutors told the court.

Two of the men allegedly walked into 42-year-old Kimberly Cates' home on Trow Road in Mont Vernon Sunday morning and stabbed her multiple times in her bed.

Cates' 11-year-old daughter Jaimie was found outside the house with a head injury, her throat cut and a broken leg."
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Article has a picture of the daughter and says under the photo she was found in the driveway. Confusing since another article I read said the responding P.O. had to break a door down and has a dislocated shoulder??? So, the daughter called 911 then ran out to the driveway and locked the door behind her? :waitasec:

I hear ya! It is confusing with 2 diff scenerios in print but I believe the PO story is the correct one cos it contains extreme detail re: the PO who found her in the house.

 

[amysmom]

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NOT THE FATHER OF WILLIAM MARKS. As noted by amysmom above (BBM), the father's name is JAMES Marks. He can be seen in a video at WMUR.com under "suspects father shocked", doesn't even look like the same guy.

http://www.wmur.com/video/21223803/index.html

I suppose this one could be somehow related? :waitasec:

 

[IWannaKnow]

I hear ya! It is confusing with 2 diff scenerios in print but I believe the PO story is the correct one cos it contains extreme detail re: the PO who found her in the house.

That is some pretty sloppy reporting, huh? 'Cause those two scenarios can't occur together. Do you think they could have been talking about finding Kimberly in the house? Still doesn't explain the locked door...how did the perps get in? Did they lock the door on the way out? Did Jamie lock the door before she called 911???

 

[amysmom]

Spader had 8 arrests this year? Way to go court system!

Btw..Spader was adopted..Could this play a role in his twisted mind? I do not know but it goes way, way beyond that!

 

[amysmom]

That is some pretty sloppy reporting, huh? 'Cause those two scenarios can't occur together. Do you think they could have been talking about finding Kimberly in the house? Still doesn't explain the locked door...how did the perps get in? Did they lock the door on the way out? Did Jamie lock the door before she called 911???

All very good Qs I need to think more about! :waitasec:

 

[IWannaKnow]

HOLY COW! I apologize for multiple posting but this scares me:

N.H. suspects’ friends tell of a dark transformation

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ne...spects_friends_tell_of_a_dark_transformation/

"Spader, a longtime Boy Scout who once shaved his head clean to play Daddy Warbucks in “Annie,’’ in recent months grew increasingly distant and depressed, often disappearing for days at a time until the police brought him home.

Gribble, a home-schooled Mormon who was planning to become a church missionary, had rebelled against a sheltered upbringing to become a dark and brooding figure who obsessed over perceived slights and expressed a fondess for knives.

Marks, already an insecure and angst-ridden teen, apparently took an alarming turn earlier this year when he met Spader, whose influence sent him into a downward spiral. And Glover - a musician who performed in coffee shops, sang in the chorus, and starred in a school production of “Cabaret’’ - fell into a bad crowd in an effort to fit in."

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These kids, by all outward appearances, where at one time "good" kids. Boy scouts, Mormans missionary, musicians, actors...what the heck happened? What suddenly leads to this? :banghead: All the discussion of poor parenting, I'm wondering...do "bad" parents take their kids to Boy Scouts, band practice, missionary trips, etc...I know it is early and there are always these reports "oh, he was such a nice XYZ" but this seems over the top.

 

[amysmom]

Suzi - I read that Spader's g.f. lived on that road and they were seen together in a convenience store across from her house approx. 8 hrs before the crime...also Gribble posted on myspace about how much fun he had with Steve and Amber (the g.f.) the night before, so I am going to deduce that it was Spader's car. We will see...
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from the link in amysmom's post #50 on page 2:

"The boat ramp is just north of the intersection of Runnells Bridge Road, also known as Route 111, and less than a quarter-mile from a convenience store where accused murderer Steven W. Spader, 18, and his friend, Autumn Savoy, 19, who lives at 88 Runnells Bridge Road, often visited, said store employee

snipped & bold by me

I thought he said fun with Autumn..Do you have the link to his ms? TIA

 

[absynthminded1]

This is most likely a classic example of, "One bad apple spoils the whole bunch."

Separately, I believe that only Spader, who is said to be the group's ring leader, would be capable of this type of crime. Without his influence and whatever group dynamic was created, I highly doubt the other three boys would do this or similar. (I would leave open the possibility the Gribble, who exhibits some antisocial behavioral tendencies, might have been dangerous, though many dark brooding young men never commit murder.)

That being said, it's pretty telling when the apparent meekest of the four, Marks, comes home after witnessing such carnage, and seems completely calm.

In Marks and Glover, it was probably a matter of looking to fit in with kids who normally wouldn't be seen even talking to them. Kids who feel like outsiders will go to any lengths for that sense of belonging to something.

 

[amysmom]

IWannaKnow;4260748]HOLY COW! I apologize for multiple posting

snipped by me

That IS what we are all here for!

These kids, by all outward appearances, where at one time "good" kids. Boy scouts, Mormans missionary, musicians, actors...what the heck happened? What suddenly leads to this? :banghead: All the discussion of poor parenting, I'm wondering...do "bad" parents take their kids to Boy Scouts, band practice, missionary trips, etc...I know it is early and there are always these reports "oh, he was such a nice XYZ" but this seems over the top

The way I see it a couple of them are psycopaths & the others are misfit followers..I honestly do not feel these parents are to blame (if the reports are accurate) but in other similar cases I have felt differently.

 

[IWannaKnow]

Gaaaahhhh! Please forgive me, I can't stop. This is making me ill.

N.H. slaying victim had misgivings about small-town life

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/10/headline_here.html

Yet Cates harbored a reservation about Mont Vernon. After living in more densely packed parts of the county, the isolation of her neighborhood, heavily forested with white pine and hemlock and nary a street light to ward off the deep black of moonless nights, could make her feel vulnerable. She confessed this to her next-door neighbor Yuki Chorney, and the two made a pact They would keep an eye out for each other.

"We always thought that if anything happened, we'd hear it because we're right next door," said Chorney.

But Chorney did not hear. At home on the night of the murder, Chorney slept 50 feet away without hearing a sound, not even when Cates's 11-year-old daughter apparently ran from the house toward hers.

"She was trying to come and get us. Why couldn't I have helped her?"

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I'll kinda freaking out right now...I thought her house was REMOTE. It's not, not for around here. In fact, it could have been my house. The picture in this article shows how close to the road it is. My husband an I have argued about this very thing many times. He thinks we are safer because we live so far out, I keep saying all you are giving them is a better chance at not being caught because soooo few cars drive by. Maybe that is what Kimberly was thinking too..

The article also states that no one locked their doors....

 

[IWannaKnow]

snipped & bold by me

I thought he said fun with Autumn..Do you have the link to his ms? TIA

Yes, you are right. Autumn. DUH. Sorry. I've corrected it to prevent further confusion.

 

[amysmom]

This is most likely a classic example of, "One bad apple spoils the whole bunch."

Separately, I believe that only Spader, who is said to be the group's ring leader, would be capable of this type of crime. Without his influence and whatever group dynamic was created, I highly doubt the other three boys would do this or similar. (I would leave open the possibility the Gribble, who exhibits some antisocial behavioral tendencies, might have been dangerous, though many dark brooding young men never commit murder.)

That being said, it's pretty telling when the apparent meekest of the four, Marks, comes home after witnessing such carnage, and seems completely calm.

In Marks and Glover, it was probably a matter of looking to fit in with kids who normally wouldn't be seen even talking to them. Kids who feel like outsiders will go to any lengths for that sense of belonging to something.

bold by me

ITA with your POV! tho I am confused about Marks & his father's account of his behavior after the crime..It is very damaging..Does he not see that?

 

[IWannaKnow]

Spader had 8 arrests this year? Way to go court system!

Btw..Spader was adopted..Could this play a role in his twisted mind? I do not know but it goes way, way beyond that!

One of those articles I posted talked about that he was a good kid up until his Soph. (?) year, IIRC. Then, he did a big about-face. Kids that went to school with him stated he really changed, behavior, dress, etc. A different article said he was having great difficulties adjusting to the idea he was adopted. Wonder if that is when they broke the news to him?


http://www.boston.com/news/local/ne...spects_friends_tell_of_a_dark_transformation/
“He was totally normal,’’ said Jenna Christensen, a 17-year-old senior who had known Spader since middle school. “He was friendly. He was fun. He made jokes.’’

But around sophomore year, Spader’s image and personality changed. Instead of jeans and T-shirts, he wore all black. Instead of waving in the hallway and greeting classmates, he stayed silent beneath his headphones.

 

[amysmom]

Yes, you are right. Autumn. DUH. Sorry. I've corrected it to prevent further confusion.

Don't worry about it..Most of us have done it many xs!

 

[amysmom]

One of those articles I posted talked about that he was a good kid up until his Soph. (?) year, IIRC. Then, he did a big about-face. Kids that went to school with him stated he really changed, behavior, dress, etc. A different article said he was having great difficulties adjusting to the idea he was adopted. Wonder if that is when they broke the news to him?

Makes sense but I still believe he has numerous (severe) issues..It is possible tho this is what sent him over the edge.

ETA..This makes it sound like he has known for a long time?

He was often depressed, she said, struggling to accept the fact that he was adopted at a young age, and, at times, he cut himself.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ne...friends_tell_of_a_dark_transformation/?page=2

 

[amysmom]

This helps to explain Spader:

In high school, Spader and Kohler drifted apart. He was hanging out with youths outside school and would leave class abruptly. Others said Spader was prescribed medication for bipolar disorder and often refused to take it.

“When he didn’t take his meds, he got a little crazy,’’ said another former high school classmate, who asked to remain anonymous. “He would get angry about things and take it out on the wrong person.’’

That classmate and Spader both attended a class for students diagnosed with emotional disorders. She said he became erratic when he didn’t take his medication and when he used recreational drugs and was prone to angry outbursts and occasional fights.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new...mation/?page=2

 

[absynthminded1]

bold by me

ITA with your POV! tho I am confused about Marks & his father's account of his behavior after the crime..It is very damaging..Does he not see that?

My guess is he is just a regular concerned father, honest to a fault. None of us know what we will disclose till we have a microphone shoved in our face.... The father basically painted his some as callous and emotionally disconnected with one careless brush stroke.

This helps to explain Spader:

In high school, Spader and Kohler drifted apart. He was hanging out with youths outside school and would leave class abruptly. Others said Spader was prescribed medication for bipolar disorder and often refused to take it.

“When he didn’t take his meds, he got a little crazy,’’ said another former high school classmate, who asked to remain anonymous. “He would get angry about things and take it out on the wrong person.’’

That classmate and Spader both attended a class for students diagnosed with emotional disorders. She said he became erratic when he didn’t take his medication and when he used recreational drugs and was prone to angry outbursts and occasional fights.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new...mation/?page=2

He was surely a mess. Sometimes adopted kids don't feel like they have a place in their adopted family. Does he have siblings?

Spader probably went looking for fulfillment elsewhere and found his little group of misfits. He may have been the ringleader, but I believe he took great pride in belonging to something bigger than himself, and even greater pride in his ability to persuade the others to do his bidding.

This kid pretty much fits the Eric Harris mold, does he not? He should have been on psyche meds, his use of recreational drugs only exasperated his mental illness. My guess is he alienated himself and fell into a dark fantasy world, fueled by drugs and violent media/entertainment.