NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10

[scoops]

I guess I do not understand this Londonderry ping thing very well. Does it mean that Maura's phone had to be within 22 miles of the tower, or it could it be that only the person calling her has to be within 22 miles?

If we are truly talking about pings, then it would be Maura's physical phone. that is what pings are used (by law enforcement for). Tracking an individual down (by their phone's physical location).

If I killed someone two hours away from my house, and I was questioned by police about where I was during such and such hours and I tell them I was at home. They can subpoena my cell phone records and use the ping information to verify if I was either at home like I said I was or if my phone was pinging off a cell tower close to where the person was killed at during the time that person was believed to be killed.

That is what cell phone pings are about. that is what interests police about cell phone activity.

Back in 2004, if you turned your cell phone off (in most cases) your phone could not be traced vie pings. The second Maura turned her phone on back then, she would've left a trace somewhere which showed (within 30 miles) of where she physically was at the time her phone was on. She did not have to be using her phone, it just had to be turned on.

But in 2014, most to all cell phones are traceable vie pings whether they are on or off.

What james is talking about, who knows?

 

[Fireweed]

So then Maura's cell phone itself would have had to have been within a certain radius of that tower and turned on in order for it to "ping?"

 

[Vinny]

I guess I do not understand this Londonderry ping thing very well. Does it mean that Maura's phone had to be within 22 miles of the tower, or it could it be that only the person calling her has to be within 22 miles?

This article explains it pretty well:

http://pursuitmag.com/locating-mobile-phones-through-pinging-and-triangulation/

Pinging is essentially the initial communication between a cell phone and the nearest tower as I understand it.

All I can think this means is someone pinged a Londonderry tower while attempting to contact Maura.

It's a bit confusing as to its significance in the case.

 

[Fireweed]

I am confused too. I feel like people are implying one of two things here: 1. that someone called Maura from the Londonderry area or 2. that Maura's phone "pinged" in the Londonderry area.

Okay so if it was a phone call then that would have gone on Maura's bill, which I assume was turned over to LE. I can therefore conclude that it was of no significance to the disappearance.

If Maura's phone pinged in Londonderry that day then that would be significant of course. But it seems that there has been way too much confusion about this.

 

[Vinny]

I am confused too. I feel like people are implying one of two things here: 1. that someone called Maura from the Londonderry area or 2. that Maura's phone "pinged" in the Londonderry area.

Okay so if it was a phone call then that would have gone on Maura's bill, which I assume was turned over to LE. I can therefore conclude that it was of no significance to the disappearance.

If Maura's phone pinged in Londonderry that day then that would be significant of course. But it seems that there has been way too much confusion about this. It would be against the laws of physics for Maura to have been in Londonderry that afternoon.

It wouldn't show on the bill if she can't even receive the call though?

 

[scoops]

This article explains it pretty well:

http://pursuitmag.com/locating-mobile-phones-through-pinging-and-triangulation/

Pinging is essentially the initial communication between a cell phone and the nearest tower as I understand it.

All I can think this means is someone pinged a Londonderry tower while attempting to contact Maura.

It's a bit confusing as to its significance in the case.

If I'm police, would I not want to know (if I am trying to find a missing person) where THEIR cell phone pinged?

Why would I be worried about where someone else that called the missing person was when they called them. that seems a bit backwards to me.

First thing I would be filling out a subpoena for would be the actual missing person's cell phone ping activity not the ping activity of all of the missing person's potential friends and family.

 

[Lolacat]

I think it's quite possible that Maura had a second cell phone--either a prepaid one that she got herself or one that someone else had provided her. Given that the bills for the phone we know about went to Billy's mother, I can't imagine that she'd want Sharon and Billy to be aware of all of the numbers she was calling if she was having relationships with other men, as is claimed on James Renner's blog.

If she did have a second phone, she could have been in communication with someone during her drive to New Hampshire and, indeed, could have arranged to be picked up by someone after her accident. I don't know enough about the area where she had her accident to know whether in 2004 cell coverage was truly nonexistent or was just spotty.

One thing that puzzles me about the "meeting up with someone" theory- if Maura was having an affair with someone else (an affair SO intense that she trusted this person enough to run away with them) then why didnt she just break up with Billy? They weren't married or even engaged at the time of her disappearance and they'd clearly had a rocky relationship up until that point so why not just break it off with him? College students in relationships break up with each other all the time, its hardly a big deal. Plus, by all accounts her friends didnt even think that highly of Billy anyway (if they had previously encouraged her to start a relationship with her track coach). She emailed Billy the day she disappeared and told him she loved him. She also rang him after her first car accident from her father's cell phone at like, 5am. She clearly has some kind of emotional attachment to him if she is calling him after a crisis for support. Frankly, with the amount of college work she had and her two jobs, plus the relationship with Billy I would be amazed if she had the time to carry on yet another intense, serious relationship. It would also have to be someone she trusted implicitly if she was willing to run away with them and leave her entire life behind.

 

[JamesRenner]

Here's the link that explains the "ping": http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/10/search-warrant-and-what-it-implies.html

It was another phone calling Maura's cell phone from within 22 miles of Londonderry NH, probably a vehicle traveling along Rt. 93.

The police, at the time of this warrant, did not know the identity of the owner of the phone that called Maura. They were trying to find the identity of the caller by executing the warrant.

Of course Scoops knows all this. He's just trying to muddy the waters a bit because it doesn't fit in with his theory.

 

[Fireweed]

I think calling it a "ping" is a bit of a misnomer then. Her phone did not "ping" because it was hooking up with that tower. She got a call from someone in that area.

It seems like she did not actually answer the call. I just am having a hard time understanding why someone would take off for good and use the cellphone on their boyfriend's plan to relay calls back and forth with the person they were taking off with.

I think that call is likely nothing more than a call from an acquaintance or someone Maura knew in the area.

 

[JamesRenner]

Not likely. The police did not know the identity of the caller. You would think if it was someone Maura knew and they were not involved in her disappearance, they would have explained how they called her the day she vanished.

 

[OldSteve]

Questions:

Did MM have a flashlight with her?
Was a flashlight missing from her car.
Did she run in the past with a flashlight?

Was her car ever tested to see how it really was running?

Was she known to leaver her things unpacked when returning to dorm in the past?

 

[BillNH]

One thing that puzzles me about the "meeting up with someone" theory- if Maura was having an affair with someone else (an affair SO intense that she trusted this person enough to run away with them) then why didnt she just break up with Billy? They weren't married or even engaged at the time of her disappearance and they'd clearly had a rocky relationship up until that point so why not just break it off with him? College students in relationships break up with each other all the time, its hardly a big deal. Plus, by all accounts her friends didnt even think that highly of Billy anyway (if they had previously encouraged her to start a relationship with her track coach). She emailed Billy the day she disappeared and told him she loved him. She also rang him after her first car accident from her father's cell phone at like, 5am. She clearly has some kind of emotional attachment to him if she is calling him after a crisis for support. Frankly, with the amount of college work she had and her two jobs, plus the relationship with Billy I would be amazed if she had the time to carry on yet another intense, serious relationship. It would also have to be someone she trusted implicitly if she was willing to run away with them and leave her entire life behind.

She did not break up with billy because to do so would have been traumatizing to her family and Billy's. Both families had her married and living happily ever after without even an engagement. If she was bolting why would she want to bring that kind of *****storm upon herself? And yes she did call him that morning after crashing her dad's car but we only have Billy's account of the subject. For all we know she could have called him to chew him out for driving her to drink.

 

[BillNH]

If I'm police, would I not want to know (if I am trying to find a missing person) where THEIR cell phone pinged?

Why would I be worried about where someone else that called the missing person was when they called them. that seems a bit backwards to me.

First thing I would be filling out a subpoena for would be the actual missing person's cell phone ping activity not the ping activity of all of the missing person's potential friends and family.

Police already had her ping activity. Rauch's gave LE access to all her phone records and activity since it was their cell plan. They needed a subpeona for the mystery caller because they did not have access to THAT persons activity. The cell carrier could not give the name and number without a subpeona due to privacy issues. Had the call connected then the subpeona would not have been needed since the number would have shown on Maura's records.

 

[scoops]

Not likely. The police did not know the identity of the caller. You would think if it was someone Maura knew and they were not involved in her disappearance, they would have explained how they called her the day she vanished.

So you can't have it both ways.

If Maura was planning to meet someone in tandem, then she would've either left her cell phone on and answered when that other mystery person attempted to call or (if she had another phone) that person would've known not to call Maura's main cell phone in the first place.

If Maura had no second phone (which is likely) than there would've been more than just one attempted call between Maura and her mystery traveling partner.

There would've had to have been a trail of calls, especially since Maura herself wasn't even sure where she was going until the last minute.

Evidence supports Maura having her cell phone turned off the majority of her trip. Why. Because, she would've left a complete trace of her route had she had it on and we would not be questioning to this day which route Maura took from Amherst to the area she went missing.


So if Maura has her cell phone turned off, that means she doesn't want to talk to ANYONE. The phone never came back on, even after her wreck, so .... She did not try and call her mystery travel partner after her wreck, because guess what, had Maura turned on her phone at the site of her wreck, her phone would've been pinging off the nearest cell tower.

Police on record have said the last known cell phone activity on Maura's cell phone came at 4:37 p.m. Monday. Period.

If Maura's phone did stay on after she checked for messages "in the late afternoon hours" -just like the affidavit states that you present without fully understanding it, calling it the "Londonderry ping - Police would not hold that information back, not concerning a missing person that held no evidence of foul play taking place. they would want that evidence out (Maura's known route) in hopes that someone would've spotted or encountered her.

using something you call the "Londonderry Ping" as proof Maura was driving in tandem with someone, absolutely doesn't hold up.

 

[JamesRenner]

Scoops, I think you're trying too hard to fit a square peg in a round hole.

You can read through the public records and interviews on my site for further explanation. You're making a lot of assumptions when, really, you just have to look at the documentation.

 

[scoops]

Scoops, I think you're trying too hard to fit a square peg in a round hole.

You can read through the public records and interviews on my site for further explanation. You're making a lot of assumptions when, really, you just have to look at the documentation.

Using an (out of context) document to conclude that Maura was traveling in tandem with someone is in fact an assumption.

 

[KenShabby]

One thing that puzzles me about the "meeting up with someone" theory- if Maura was having an affair with someone else (an affair SO intense that she trusted this person enough to run away with them) then why didnt she just break up with Billy? They weren't married or even engaged at the time of her disappearance and they'd clearly had a rocky relationship up until that point so why not just break it off with him? College students in relationships break up with each other all the time, its hardly a big deal.

Agreed. Regarding the "in tandem" theories, this whole secret-boyfriend idea is another part of the conventional wisdom of the case that doesn't necessarily have to be so. If Maura was indeed meeting someone (to help her escape to a new life), why would it need to be a romantic partner? Why would it need to be a partner at all? It could have been anyone who wanted to help her.

Not saying that I fully subscribe to the "started a new life" line of thinking, but I do entertain it because it sure is compelling.

 

[KenShabby]

If Maura had no second phone (which is likely) than there would've been more than just one attempted call between Maura and her mystery traveling partner.

Scoops, to be fair, based on what evidence are you concluding that a second cell phone was unlikely?

There would've had to have been a trail of calls, especially since Maura herself wasn't even sure where she was going until the last minute.

Again, how do you know for sure that Maura did not know where she was going until the last minute?

One of the enduring frustrations in this case is that we, the general sleuthing public, have access to very little real information. We are left with tidbits, hearsay, and speculation. Some of us get married to our preferred assumptions about this case. Others of us (myself included) have tried to keep our mind entirely open to the breadth of possibilities — simply because there are many semi-plausible possibilities. I'm not sure that my very-open mind is a better position than another person's insistence that things simply can't be different than their own preferred scenario (and that anyone who disagrees is foolish), but it's all I can honestly do, given so little actual evidence at my access.

Here's hoping that JR has assembled compelling evidence and some new facts that add up to something coherent.

 

[Fireweed]

Though I agree that we have no positive evidence that Maura had a secret cell phone, I still think it is worth considering as a possibility. It seems that Maura was pulling away from Billy. One of the things that people do when they pull away, is to reestablish their own separate identity. Billy had an ability to monitor Maura's cell activity at a time when she was looking for privacy and some separation from her life. All I am saying is that if I were in her position - in sort of a limbo between a complete break-up and just pulling away - ten I certainly would have gotten my own prepaid cell phone.

 

[scoops]

Scoops, to be fair, based on what evidence are you concluding that a second cell phone was unlikely?



Again, how do you know for sure that Maura did not know where she was going until the last minute?

One of the enduring frustrations in this case is that we, the general sleuthing public, have access to very little real information. We are left with tidbits, hearsay, and speculation. Some of us get married to our preferred assumptions about this case. Others of us (myself included) have tried to keep our mind entirely open to the breadth of possibilities — simply because there are many semi-plausible possibilities. I'm not sure that my very-open mind is a better position than another person's insistence that things simply can't be different than their own preferred scenario (and that anyone who disagrees is foolish), but it's all I can honestly do, given so little actual evidence at my access.

Here's hoping that JR has assembled compelling evidence and some new facts that add up to something coherent.

Why do I have to prove that there was no second phone, yet no one has to prove that there was a second phone. <Mod Snip>

I have tried very diligently to stay with the knowns of the case (even if they aren't complete)

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I have based all my conclusions on what happened to maura based on what evidence is there, what people have physically said over the years and then also tried to throw in some common sense along the way as well.

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