NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10

[Captain_Khan]

BBM

This is not as crazy as you may think. There are some real nomads out there that actually hike and camp during the winter in the WMNF so while there is not an abundance of these folks, there are some. A quick explanation to a good Samaritan that she had a campsite a little ways into the woods, up the road a bit and needed a lift due to car trouble may have sufficed.

Agreed. We also tend to forget, since we are all so interested in the case, that this mystery hasn't been very well publicized. If someone from another state gave Maura a lift, then left the area soon after, they might never have realized that Maura even went missing.

Sad thing is, if that is how it went down, I doubt anyone would remember that one girl they gave a lift to 10 years ago...

 

[Lolacat]

BBM

This is not as crazy as you may think. There are some real nomads out there that actually hike and camp during the winter in the WMNF so while there is not an abundance of these folks, there are some. A quick explanation to a good Samaritan that she had a campsite a little ways into the woods, up the road a bit and needed a lift due to car trouble may have sufficed.

Hmmmm. Good point. I suppose I feel like it would be memorable to me because she was a lone female and it was dark and very cold that night. But yeah, 10 years is a long long time to remember something like that. I agree with what you said about going back to the beginning and working from the ground up. I dont think I have known of a case where there has been such an abundance of conflicting information.

 

[scoops]

I think the alcohol is still in question. Renner's site says:

No alcohol missing.



Official word from Haverhill PD: all booze was accounted for. Vodka. Baileys. Wine. Maura left it all behind in the car.



Like I said, little things have been mis-reported for years. Best to start from the ground up and see where it takes us.

(July 2011) http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011_07_01_archive.html

I asked him about it here on WS a week or so ago and he replied he was trying to confirm.

I think this has already been proven.
The lead investigator in the case (the guy who gets briefed on everything going on) has stated on James blog (after) his post about the alcohol was all accounted for --- that there were missing bottles of alcohol not recovered at the scene, but a receipt was recovered that listed the alcohol purchased.

When a random police officer (not even assigned to the case) looks up some old file information and notes that all alcohol was accounted for, to me that means that they have a solid idea exactly what amount of alcohol Maura had.

It does not mean that they scooped up the broken wine bottles and the other alcohol and took it back to the police barracks and stuck it in a filing cabinet and are holding it there as evidence.

Keep in mind, this case has never been classified as more than a missing person's case.

So in other words, I do think there is a card or a piece of paper that lists out exactly what alcohol Maura is believed to have on her (therefore the alcohol has been all accounted for).

 

[scoops]

If we assume she was suicidal, and she was picked up by a good samaritan then she would have had to conceal that fact and make up a cover story. Noone in their right minds would drop a young girl, alone in the dark, at the entrance to the white mountains at night. Plus, thats the kind of odd request that you would always remember. Much less memorable is giving a lift to a college student further up the road, nearer to civilization and places to stay. (Even if she did then double back and head into the mountains).

They were already basically at the entrance of the white mountains. I would argue that Maura had someone drop her off at a hotel. there are several chain hotels such as Best Western, Comfot Inn and Suites, Econo Lodge, Hampton Inn, etc. (just depending on where Maura would have someone take her). I think she did have a specific hotel in mind, (probably didn't have a reservation) and had she not wrecked, she was heading for it herself, with the original plan of taking off hiking in the morning.

I don't think Maura would've checked in though. I think she waited around until the person giving her ride left, (maybe she went into the lobby of the hotel) and then I think she took off hiking when the coast was clear. Keep in mind, (in her mind) police were hot on her trail I would imagine). So staying the night in a hotel less than 20 miles from your accident site, would be quite risky.

 

[Captain_Khan]

So in other words, I do think there is a card or a piece of paper that lists out exactly what alcohol Maura is believed to have on her (therefore the alcohol has been all accounted for).

If I remember rightly, wasn't Maura seen on CCTV buying the alcohol? Maybe that is how they established what she likely had with her. Not sure though.

 

[BillNH]

I think this has already been proven.
The lead investigator in the case (the guy who gets briefed on everything going on) has stated on James blog (after) his post about the alcohol was all accounted for --- that there were missing bottles of alcohol not recovered at the scene, but a receipt was recovered that listed the alcohol purchased.

When a random police officer (not even assigned to the case) looks up some old file information and notes that all alcohol was accounted for, to me that means that they have a solid idea exactly what amount of alcohol Maura had.

It does not mean that they scooped up the broken wine bottles and the other alcohol and took it back to the police barracks and stuck it in a filing cabinet and are holding it there as evidence.

Keep in mind, this case has never been classified as more than a missing person's case.

So in other words, I do think there is a card or a piece of paper that lists out exactly what alcohol Maura is believed to have on her (therefore the alcohol has been all accounted for).

I guess I missed the lead investigator's comments, which is why I asked for clarification. James clearly states it was all left behind in the car, not just that it was accounted for. Can you direct me to the lead investigator's comment that clears this up?

***EDIT***

I found the quote from Scarinza from January 2012. It actually makes the answer even more murky...

""She had purchased Kahlua, wine, and a six pack of Seagrams. The box had splashed all over the car. The bottle of kahlua was not there.""

So she only took a bottle of Kahlua......

 

[Fireweed]

Yeah I always think it is important to keep in mind what a self-selecting group we are. I guarantee you no one in my very large family knows anything about this case. I have a friend in Montreal who never heard of her. Maura could be out waking around in a place where almost no one knows about her.

BTW, in all the missing persons cases I have seen where people let turn up alive many years later, none of them planned it out all that well and none of them were geniuses. It does not take as much cleverness to disappear as people think. I think Maura had been "planning" to disappear that Thursday night of the upsetting phone call. I think she had the same sense of "urgency" that all those they make themselves disappear have, which is why she did not wait for her final paycheck. She needed to get out of town. Now.

 

[scoops]

I guess I missed the lead investigator's comments, which is why I asked for clarification. James clearly states it was all left behind in the car, not just that it was accounted for. Can you direct me to the lead investigator's comment that clears this up?

***EDIT***

I found the quote from Scarinza from January 2012. It actually makes the answer even more murky...

""She had purchased Kahlua, wine, and a six pack of Seagrams. The box had splashed all over the car. The bottle of kahlua was not there.""

So she only took a bottle of Kahlua......

I would say she took a bottle of Kahlua and five bottles of seagrams.

There was a smashed box of Franzia Wine found in her drivers side back seat floor.

An open cup filled with a mixture of soda and what is believed to be alcohol under her car that was only discovered after the car was towed from the accident location.

And there was alleged to be one (open) bottle of alcohol in the car up front (either on a seat or cup holder or floor.

 

[scoops]

I would say she took a bottle of Kahlua and five bottles of seagrams.

There was a smashed box of Franzia Wine found in her drivers side back seat floor.

An open cup filled with a mixture of soda and what is believed to be alcohol under her car that was only discovered after the car was towed from the accident location.

And there was alleged to be one (open) bottle of alcohol in the car up front (either on a seat or cup holder or floor.

One minor correction, the item found after the car was towed was a coke bottle that the responding officer recovered and it had a red liquid and a strong smell of alcohol.

 

[Fireweed]

Was the six pack of Seagram's some sort of alcopop?

 

[scoops]

Was the six pack of Seagram's some sort of alcopop?

I believe it would be described as a Vodka Cooler.

 

[Fireweed]

Speaking as someone who used to drink a lot, I find Maura's alcohol purchases to be a bit odd. Whenever I would go off on a mini bender, it was pretty much always one type of booze. Wine, alcopops, and mudslides just do not go well together. It is also way too much to buy if you are either planning on killing yourself that night, or planning on killing yourself the next day.

Also the whole emailing people about being gone for a week, I mean, if you were going off into the woods to kill yourself, would you care at all? So what if people came looking for you, you'd be dead! Maura wanted a week's headstart.

 

[BillNH]

I would say she took a bottle of Kahlua and five bottles of seagrams.

There was a smashed box of Franzia Wine found in her drivers side back seat floor.

An open cup filled with a mixture of soda and what is believed to be alcohol under her car that was only discovered after the car was towed from the accident location.

And there was alleged to be one (open) bottle of alcohol in the car up front (either on a seat or cup holder or floor.

BBM 1
Is there a source for this or just your opinion?

BBM 2
There was reportedly what was described as an "empty beer bottle" on the floor of the back seat. Is this what you are referring to or something else? If something else is there a source for that information?

 

[BillNH]

If I remember rightly, wasn't Maura seen on CCTV buying the alcohol? Maybe that is how they established what she likely had with her. Not sure though.

They did have CCTV footage that was never released to the public (odd) and there was a receipt in the car for the purchase.

 

[Fireweed]

I still do not understand why they never released that footage. Unless Maura stopped and changed along the way, then that was the last thing she was wearing. People may not have remembered a face, but may more easily recall the clothing someone had on, especially if her jacket was too "light" for the season.

I recall that when Molly Bish went missing, the police held a press conference and very prominently displayed the bathing suit she was wearing. Sadly Molly was found dead, but the hunter who came across her remains saw the bathing suit first and immediately knew what is was.

 

[Lolacat]

I still do not understand why they never released that footage. Unless Maura stopped and changed along the way, then that was the last thing she was wearing. People may not have remembered a face, but may more easily recall the clothing someone had on, especially if her jacket was too "light" for the season.

I recall that when Molly Bish went missing, the police held a press conference and very prominently displayed the bathing suit she was wearing. Sadly Molly was found dead, but the hunter who came across her remains saw the bathing suit first and immediately knew what is was.

I also found this odd. I vaguely remember reading that even the family was not allowed access to the CCTV footage but I can't remember where I read that or if it is accurate.

I googled police guidelines re: protocols for releasing CCTV footage to the public. I could only find protocols for UK police online (I believe we have something ridiculous like one CCTV camera for every 11 people). But I imagine similar protocols exist in the US. I found that they have a checklist. The first question on the check list is: Is the release of this image or footage likely to prejudice/affect future legal proceedings? If yes, then releasing footage is not advised.

In Maura's case, I would imagine a few scenarios are possible:

1. There is something in that footage which, if made public, could jeopardise any future criminal proceedings.
2. They do not need public assistance as they have a pretty good idea of what happened to Maura, therefore it is deemed unnecessary.
3. The quality of the footage is not clear enough to provide the public with an accurate image of what Maura looked like just before she disappeared.

I think this is the only missing case Ive ever heard of where the last known CCTV footage has not been released to the public.

 

[scoops]

BBM 1
Is there a source for this or just your opinion?

BBM 2
There was reportedly what was described as an "empty beer bottle" on the floor of the back seat. Is this what you are referring to or something else? If something else is there a source for that information?

Here is one reference. But it wasn't the one I was recalling. It was acutally fred who brought it up (just can't remember where) when he was defending his daughter.

This is from three days after Maura went missing
Caldonian Record

"Rausch said Murray fled with a backpack, but left many of the other items she'd packed, including the stuffed monkey he gave her and her favorite book, "Without Peril," behind in her car.
A witness told local police Murray appeared to have been intoxicated at the time of the crash, and Rausch said that there was an open bottle of alcohol in the car."

The wine was still in the box in the backseat on the floor.

You can come to the conclusion that Maura left with five bottles of seagrams and one bottle of Kahlua, unless one thinks, Maura guzzled the entire six-pack in her drive from Amherst to where she wrecked.

It sounds like she did make a pit stop (bought a coke) and was mixing that with alcohol. So it appears like she was drinking and driving.


A family spokesperson at one time at made the comment that the bottle found under Maura's car was simply Cherry Cola and it even was found with Maura's trademark licorice strip straw that she would use to drink from in it.

Obviously, I would tend to believe law enforcement on this one, that they found the (coke) bottle and it had a strong alcoholic smell to it.

 

[OldSteve]

BBM

This is not as crazy as you may think. There are some real nomads out there that actually hike and camp during the winter in the WMNF so while there is not an abundance of these folks, there are some. A quick explanation to a good Samaritan that she had a campsite a little ways into the woods, up the road a bit and needed a lift due to car trouble may have sufficed.

Good to get local details like this. I wonder if someone had picked her up, if they would notice her shoes were totally inappropriate for the forest... ..

 

[scoops]

I also found this odd. I vaguely remember reading that even the family was not allowed access to the CCTV footage but I can't remember where I read that or if it is accurate.

I googled police guidelines re: protocols for releasing CCTV footage to the public. I could only find protocols for UK police online (I believe we have something ridiculous like one CCTV camera for every 11 people). But I imagine similar protocols exist in the US. I found that they have a checklist. The first question on the check list is: Is the release of this image or footage likely to prejudice/affect future legal proceedings? If yes, then releasing footage is not advised.

In Maura's case, I would imagine a few scenarios are possible:

1. There is something in that footage which, if made public, could jeopardise any future criminal proceedings.
2. They do not need public assistance as they have a pretty good idea of what happened to Maura, therefore it is deemed unnecessary.
3. The quality of the footage is not clear enough to provide the public with an accurate image of what Maura looked like just before she disappeared.

I think this is the only missing case Ive ever heard of where the last known CCTV footage has not been released to the public.

this is a good question that has never been answered.

But there are clues we can gain yet still.

Police have always been very clear that Maura was alone and missing. So obviously, right there, that rules out someone being in the camera with her.

Guys/Gals, keep in mind this case has never came close to being a criminal case, so police would have no reason to fudge the fact that Maura was alone.

If someone was holding a gun to Maura as she made the atm transaction, the police would (actually) want that information out to the public.

My two best guesses are:

1. The video quality is so poor that it was a pointless move to make it public.
2. Fred had been barking about how they muffed up the investigation (early on) and at some point, police decided to keep everything (that hadn't been already released) from him and his family and that may include this piece of evidence. When you fear a lawsuit in the works, or an us vs. them situation, I would imagine, that you would feel the need to no longer cooperate and give someone who is super critical of your efforts, more ammunition to turn against you.


My best bet would be that if everything ever does get fully released publically from this investigation, that it is going to be absolutely picked apart by Maura's family (which is their right to do so).

 

[Lolacat]

this is a good question that has never been answered.

But there are clues we can gain yet still.

Police have always been very clear that Maura was alone and missing. So obviously, right there, that rules out someone being in the camera with her.

Guys/Gals, keep in mind this case has never came close to being a criminal case, so police would have no reason to fudge the fact that Maura was alone.

If someone was holding a gun to Maura as she made the atm transaction, the police would (actually) want that information out to the public.

My two best guesses are:

1. The video quality is so poor that it was a pointless move to make it public.
2. Fred had been barking about how they muffed up the investigation (early on) and at some point, police decided to keep everything (that hadn't been already released) from him and his family and that may include this piece of evidence. When you fear a lawsuit in the works, or an us vs. them situation, I would imagine, that you would feel the need to no longer cooperate and give someone who is super critical of your efforts, more ammunition to turn against you.


My best bet would be that if everything ever does get fully released publically from this investigation, that it is going to be absolutely picked apart by Maura's family (which is their right to do so).

I agree there was noone with her, but maybe something about her appearance is relevant?- eg. she had marks/a bruise on her face or something like that? Of course, it could just be something as simple as the footage not being clear etc.
I certainly dont want to imply that everything has some deep sinister meaning either. But, considering that CCTV footage of missing people is usually released right at the beginning of any investigation, (because thats when the public have the best chance of remembering the person as its most recent in their minds) it seems very odd to me. For example, in comparison with the Teleka Patrick case, the last known footage of her was released very early on.