NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #11

[Fireweed]

I guess I do not see that happening before Tuesday morning even if she would not have sent the email.

I mean it took 24 hours for Fred to find out even after her car had been abandoned. A university will not immediately notify an adult's parent that they have not been to clinicals in two days. They would probably email her and call her, and then after three days or so someone from the dorms would use their key to open up her dorm room, but no university would call a parent if their adult child missed a few days of classes (even clinicals!). They would have to suspect something serious, and even then, they would call the police, not Fred.

 

[scoops]

I guess I do not see that happening before Tuesday morning even if she would not have sent the email.

I mean it took 24 hours for Fred to find out even after her car had been abandoned. A university will not immediately notify an adult's parent that they have not been to clinicals in two days. They would probably email her and call her, and then after three days or so someone from the dorms would use their key to open up her dorm room, but no university would call a parent if their adult child missed a few days of classes (even clinicals!). They would have to suspect something serious, and even then, they would call the police, not Fred.

She did work with a good friend.

That friend would, IMO, be concerned about Maura's absence and want to at minimum call her /text her that same day.

If they couldn't get a hold of Maura, they would likely try and contact someone who knew Maura like Maura's family or even Billy.

Once word got to Maura's family or Billy, they would figure out quickly something was really wrong with Maura's story and a father who had just spent the entire weekend with his daughter (and saw first-hand her mental mind-frame) may have immediately thought of something like suicide, hence him calling into 911 the day after Maura disappeared desperately wanting to tell the investigators something of an urgent nature concerning Maura.

Maura's family did call Maura's security desk job to check and see if she had showed up that Tuesday night. (if I recall right) so that would be within minutes or a few hours of first hearing anything about Maura, they are already calling her job to try and find her


Also, I think if you miss clinicals (even once), you basically screw yourself.

You had to get lucky just to even earn a chance to get into a clinical rotation at UMASS. Many nursing students don't get in (because not enough spaces available).

All clinicals are off campus and some are up to an hour away.

Missing even one would be highly noticeable IMO.


It took fred so long to find out because of unfortunate circumstances.

He had been working in Connecticut for months (living in a hotel) and police had no way of knowing that.

They contacted his kids. and his kids spent a lot of time trying (on their own) to find out what happened to Maura, basically getting the run around from various police organizations in both Amherst and new Hampshire.

Finally, they (fred's kids) notified Fred late in the early evening hours on Tuesday. Fred was on the phone with 911 within minutes of finding out himself teling dispatch it was urgent he speak to the investigating officer because he had important information to give concerning his daughter.

 

[Lolacat]

Fireweed- I think I am with you too. My only hesitation is that I am not sure if Maura intended to escape to run away to start a new life OR to kill herself. Both are equally plausible to me.

I just CANNOT see Maura telling her father she wants to drop out of college and break up with Billy. I just cant. For her to start a whole new life with her family's knowledge and presence in her life would be immensely difficult, I think. Her entire family would have been against it. I think they would have made life unbearable for her if she had made that choice. I feel so sad for Maura, she literally had noone to confide in, noone to support her, noone to even LISTEN to her. All of her coping mechanisms were dysfunctional ones- bulimia, stealing, alcohol.

*If* she did run away to start a new life it seems like an extremely impulsive decision- there doesnt seem to have been much planning involved on her part (that we know about).

 

[Fireweed]

Scoops - if you miss two days of clinicals I am sure that is a big deal academically, but the school is not about to send out a search party for Maura. Same thing with missing work. People will call and email, but no one will have been actively searching for Maura come Tuesday morning. Also, maybe a good friend of Maura's had Fred and Billy's numbers. Maybe. I doubt that though. I have never in my life had my college friend's dad's number. The only thing I can think of is that Maura had an emergency contact listed either with the school or at work, but you can skip school - yes, even these sacred clinicals - for one whole day without someone calling your emergency contact.

If Maura's plan was to stay at a hotel Monday and kill herself early Tuesday morning, then she went into overkill by sending the email. No one would have been looking for her at that point.

 

[Fireweed]

*If* she did run away to start a new life it seems like an extremely impulsive decision- there doesnt seem to have been much planning involved on her part (that we know about).

I think that Maura's bulimia, alcoholism, stealing, and car wrecks indeed point to an extremely impulsive person.

 

[Jane Birch]

Hey I was just thinking about something after reading some old articles on this case. So apparently it was eight months after Maura disappeared that Billy's mom took a good look at the cell phone records (because that is what people do - they wait eight months to do the obvious).

It seems to have been what the police did in that case, since they didn't do it either. I fault them rather than the Rausches, since it was the police's job.

 

[Fireweed]

It seems to have been what the police did in that case, since they didn't do it either. I fault them rather than the Rausches, since it was the police's job.

Yes but the police have to subpoena such records and follow other procedures, all the Rausches had to do was open their damn mail.

Sure LE should have been a little more on the ball, but hey, maybe they were just believing the Murrays and the Rausches at this point, and so, you know, Maura's past was irrelevant and it did not matter who she called that day, right? I mean, how on earth could the Murrays and the Rausches possibly be critical of LE for not looking? Isn't that exactly what they want? They claim a dirt bag up there grabbed her, so why would Maura's phone calls from earlier that day even matter? So why are they down on LE about this? It makes no sense to me, considering that why Maura went up there and where she was heading has absolutely nothing to do with her disappearance.

 

[scoops]

Scoops - if you miss two days of clinicals I am sure that is a big deal academically, but the school is not about to send out a search party for Maura. Same thing with missing work. People will call and email, but no one will have been actively searching for Maura come Tuesday morning. Also, maybe a good friend of Maura's had Fred and Billy's numbers. Maybe. I doubt that though. I have never in my life had my college friend's dad's number. The only thing I can think of is that Maura had an emergency contact listed either with the school or at work, but you can skip school - yes, even these sacred clinicals - for one whole day without someone calling your emergency contact.

If Maura's plan was to stay at a hotel Monday and kill herself early Tuesday morning, then she went into overkill by sending the email. No one would have been looking for her at that point.

She might of felt the "overkill" was necessary.

Her father, her work supervisor etc.. have all described Maura's favorite place in the world as being the White Mountains. Heck, her honeymoon was being planned for that location.

If by some rare chance, anyone in her family had been tipped off that Maura was a no-show to both clinicals and her jobs and she can't be contacted, I wouldn't think it to be a stretch that it wouldn't take long for someone such as Fred (who knew his daughter was struggling to keep things together) to come up with the white mountains as a possible location for Maura.

IMO, when fred was first notified where they found his car (basically at the entrance of the white mountains), he wasn't frozen with shock and confusion, he immediately was trying to warn police that his daughter (because of the location) could've ended up at that location to do personal harm to herself.

 

[Fireweed]

Yeah maybe. I just do not see how Maura could has suspected that she would be found before Tuesday morning. Even if her family all thought she was going to be in the white mountains, could they have really tracked her down at a specific location right away?

I do agree that Maura going up there to kill herself is a reasonable theory as to what happened, but I do not agree that if Maura did not show up for school and work on Monday and Tuesday that there would have been some major effort to find her. In fact, people probably would not have even grown very concerned until Wednesday.

 

[Lolacat]

Why did Fred agree with Maura to speak on the phone Monday evening if he was working and unreachable until Tuesday?

 

[Fireweed]

Why did Fred agree with Maura to speak on the phone Monday evening if he was working and unreachable until Tuesday?

I think we always need to keep in mind that the Monday night phone call was something Fred said was supposed to happen, which means it may or may not be true. He never tried to call her, so who knows?

 

[Fireweed]

Oh BTW, with regards to the timeline. If Maura had gone to the nearest DMV after she left the liquor store at 4, then I think it would account perfectly for the "missing" time.

 

[scoops]

Why did Fred agree with Maura to speak on the phone Monday evening if he was working and unreachable until Tuesday?

Fred wasn't unreachable. In fact he was staying at a Homestead Suites/Extended Stay Hotel in Bridgeport Connecticut and worked normal hours like 8 a.m. to 5 p.m.

 

[Lolacat]

Fred wasn't unreachable. In fact he was staying at a Homestead Suites/Extended Stay Hotel in Bridgeport Connecticut and worked normal hours like 8 a.m. to 5 p.m.

Ok- well thats another thing that has been reported wrongly then. On the Disappeared programme they said he was unreachable by police due to being at work.

 

[scoops]

Ok- well thats another thing that has been reported wrongly then. On the Disappeared programme they said he was unreachable by police due to being at work.

Police had no way of knowing that Fred was in Connecticut.

They pulled his name and home address from the VIN number on the car and called Fred's house to report that his car had been abandoned in New Hampshire near the white mountains.

Two of Fred's children dealt with the phone call from police. They attempted to find Maura themselves, but all they got were the run around. They would call one police department and that department would tell them that they needed to call a different police department etc..

Finally, the kids called fred to tell him about it and Fred ended up calling 911 shortly after.

So the program on TV didn't report it wrong. Fred was unreachable to police at the time they pursued him.

Keep in mind (at the time police called fred's house) there was no criminal investigation underway, they were simply notifying the owner of a vehicle that their car was located in New Hampshire. As long as police got a hold of someone, that was the end of it, there wasn't anything further to investigate (or at least they would've thought at the time).


My best guess is that the kids did not want to alarm their dad at first and thought they could track down Maura and find out what happened and it would all be some innocent explanation (as to why she drove to New Hampshire during a school week) and when they started realizing something was very wrong, they then notified their father who was just getting off of work and in the parking garage of the hospital he worked at when he got the phone call from his kids.

 

[posimosh]

The first, think that this is the case of a girl who ran away and wanted to leave no trace of where she went. Whether her intent was to off herself or start anew, I think this mindset is a bit naive in that she seemed to do this without much planning, and, as all of the CJ textbooks say, its difficult enough to hide a body and evidence of a premature death. When such a premature death is your own and you are the person responsible for it, its nearly impossible. The only theory that really makes a lot of sense on this end of the spectrum is that in her haste to get away from a dui, she hid herself so well that she died from the frigid night and hasn't ever been found. With each coming year and the thaw that happens every spring, this becomes more and more unlikely.
The second, are those who think that this girl was way over her head when she left her college dorm for a few days away to clear her head. She made a multitude of bad choices in doing so (which have been gone over with a fine tooth comb here and elsewhere). With each new bad choice she was left with fewer and fewer options until she was effectively left with a.) Stick around and wait for the cops to tow her car, give her a DUI, get kicked out of school (and in her mind disappoint everyone who saw so much promise in her and be stuck working at a diner in her hometown forever more.) or b.) Get in to whoever pulled up to her's car right after the school bus driver skeptically told her "ok, I won't call the cops." and drove away. I could just see her face at this point as it occurs to her she is left with no good choices and her string of close calls is either about to end, or, she is going to escape one last time and then get her life back on track (or not), after this one last good Samaritan bails her out of the mother and father of all jams.
... Only this time, in my opinion, her luck ran out and she got in to the wrong car, with the wrong person, and has never been heard from again. I know that people are skeptical that anyone could be put under the kind of pressure to make an otherwise smart, clever, and relatively safe minded college student make such a bad decision, but my guess is that if you are skeptical of this, you haven't been to college in the past 20 or so years. The kinds of pressure a normal student has to deal with currently will make them act all kinds of funny ways, and Maura had a bad streak of choices, actions, and luck which made her act in what others would view as reckless or naive ways that are perfectly understandable to me (but would be viewed as completely unreasonable to my parents... for instance.

 

[scoops]

The first, think that this is the case of a girl who ran away and wanted to leave no trace of where she went. Whether her intent was to off herself or start anew, I think this mindset is a bit naive in that she seemed to do this without much planning, and, as all of the CJ textbooks say, its difficult enough to hide a body and evidence of a premature death. When such a premature death is your own and you are the person responsible for it, its nearly impossible. The only theory that really makes a lot of sense on this end of the spectrum is that in her haste to get away from a dui, she hid herself so well that she died from the frigid night and hasn't ever been found. With each coming year and the thaw that happens every spring, this becomes more and more unlikely.
The second, are those who think that this girl was way over her head when she left her college dorm for a few days away to clear her head. She made a multitude of bad choices in doing so (which have been gone over with a fine tooth comb here and elsewhere). With each new bad choice she was left with fewer and fewer options until she was effectively left with a.) Stick around and wait for the cops to tow her car, give her a DUI, get kicked out of school (and in her mind disappoint everyone who saw so much promise in her and be stuck working at a diner in her hometown forever more.) or b.) Get in to whoever pulled up to her's car right after the school bus driver skeptically told her "ok, I won't call the cops." and drove away. I could just see her face at this point as it occurs to her she is left with no good choices and her string of close calls is either about to end, or, she is going to escape one last time and then get her life back on track (or not), after this one last good Samaritan bails her out of the mother and father of all jams.
... Only this time, in my opinion, her luck ran out and she got in to the wrong car, with the wrong person, and has never been heard from again. I know that people are skeptical that anyone could be put under the kind of pressure to make an otherwise smart, clever, and relatively safe minded college student make such a bad decision, but my guess is that if you are skeptical of this, you haven't been to college in the past 20 or so years. The kinds of pressure a normal student has to deal with currently will make them act all kinds of funny ways, and Maura had a bad streak of choices, actions, and luck which made her act in what others would view as reckless or naive ways that are perfectly understandable to me (but would be viewed as completely unreasonable to my parents... for instance.

Speaking for myself and myself only.

I don't think it would've taken much planning at all to go off on one final hike in the white mountains.

And the fact she was an adult who possibly went missing in the mountains ... the chances of a true search taking place for body recovery (EVER) are almost slim and none.

It's too risky to send volunteers into the white mountains looking for an adult who went missing.

That is why the searches with manpower have all taken place around maura's car.

A quick ride in a chopper surveying the area just doesn't cut it.

 

[Fireweed]

It does not take a lot of planning to disappear for good and start a new life either. Go look at cases of people who did that for years before they were eventually caught. None of them planned it out all that well.

 

[Raging Ranter]

This case is just so freakin' befuddling. Nothing about it makes sense. For ten years now I've vacillated from one idea to the next. She was picked up by a stranger at random. She was picked up by someone she knew who was following close behind, because she was planning to disappear. She hid in the woods a few miles up the road and died of exposure. She ran a few miles down the road, then was picked up by a stranger and killed somewhere else. All those theories have holes in them. Ten years of this. I now understand why some people believe in alien abductions. :banghead:

 

[Lolacat]

This case is just so freakin' befuddling. Nothing about it makes sense. For ten years now I've vacillated from one idea to the next. She was picked up by a stranger at random. She was picked up by someone she knew who was following close behind, because she was planning to disappear. She hid in the woods a few miles up the road and died of exposure. She ran a few miles down the road, then was picked up by a stranger and killed somewhere else. All those theories have holes in them. Ten years of this. I now understand why some people believe in alien abductions. :banghead:

It really is. Whats so weird is that no single theory really *fits*- they all have one small aspect that makes you doubt them.