NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #12

[scoops]

Okay, then why did she kill herself again? I could have sworn you were strongly implying over the years that you believe in the Vasi connection, and that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

absolutely not.

If it were proven that Maura was involved in the hit and run, then other things would tie up very nicely to include her father swooping into town a day and a half later (despite a bad snow storm).

It would lead me to believe that Maura intentionally drove (in her car which would have evidence from the hit and run) away from campus and into the white mountains to ditch it.

If that did take place, then it would be very hard to explain Maura being suicidal as it would give reason for her to be driving away from campus on a school night. Who knows what would've happened to her if she had a deliberate mission to get rid of her car and something went wrong with that plan.

My suicide theory was based on many factors:

the way Maura left her dorm room (with a note on top of her packed boxes)
The way her family have come out vehemently denying Maura was suicidal when really no one was pressing them about that
The fact that Maura left her valuables behind, cleaned out her bank account (which wouldn't been enough money for more than a 1 night stay at a hotel) and she did take sentimental items with her.
the fact that she went to the white mountains (a place very dear to her) arriving in the evening hours in an unreliable car that she would've been considered nuts driving that far in, not having cell phone reception in case her car broke down
The fact that she refused help after having a pretty traumatic accident
the fact that she only took alcohol with her when she left her car
the fact that she had spent the entire Monday tying up loose ends at school like someone would do if they didn't plan on returning
the fact that she was literally throwing away a nursing career that was just getting started to include getting herself a coveted spot in the nursing program clinical rotation.

the fact that her dad's first thoughts were that his daughter took her own life. He just spent the weekend with her.

the fact her father was telling media (when cameras were rolling) that a local dirtbag grabbed his daughter, but when the cameras weren't rolling he was telling fellow searchers that they would find his daughter dead and naked in the mountains

 

[syntaxkid]

We do not know she took only alcohol with her.......there are a lot of details about the case that are sealed....You can read the Supreme Court Docket from new Hampshire....the investigation involves a homicide detective and there is so much round about talk of the evidence and POI, these are reasons cited why much of the evidence has been sealed....she may have refused help because of fear of LE.....or she may have been disoriented drinking and driving, then getting smashed in the face by an airbag....

Let's not argue people.....let's just contribute what we can in a civil fashion

 

[Fireweed]

absolutely not.

If it were proven that Maura was involved in the hit and run, then other things would tie up very nicely to include her father swooping into town a day and a half later (despite a bad snow storm).

It would lead me to believe that Maura intentionally drove (in her car which would have evidence from the hit and run) away from campus and into the white mountains to ditch it.

If that did take place, then it would be very hard to explain Maura being suicidal as it would give reason for her to be driving away from campus on a school night. Who knows what would've happened to her if she had a deliberate mission to get rid of her car and something went wrong with that plan.

My suicide theory was based on many factors:

the way Maura left her dorm room (with a note on top of her packed boxes)
The way her family have come out vehemently denying Maura was suicidal when really no one was pressing them about that
The fact that Maura left her valuables behind, cleaned out her bank account (which wouldn't been enough money for more than a 1 night stay at a hotel) and she did take sentimental items with her.
the fact that she went to the white mountains (a place very dear to her) arriving in the evening hours in an unreliable car that she would've been considered nuts driving that far in, not having cell phone reception in case her car broke down
The fact that she refused help after having a pretty traumatic accident
the fact that she only took alcohol with her when she left her car
the fact that she had spent the entire Monday tying up loose ends at school like someone would do if they didn't plan on returning
the fact that she was literally throwing away a nursing career that was just getting started to include getting herself a coveted spot in the nursing program clinical rotation.

the fact that her dad's first thoughts were that his daughter took her own life. He just spent the weekend with her.

the fact her father was telling media (when cameras were rolling) that a local dirtbag grabbed his daughter, but when the cameras weren't rolling he was telling fellow searchers that they would find his daughter dead and naked in the mountains

Then why do bring up Vasi here so frequently? You have many times discussed and since you are so confident in your theories and your research, I always assumed that Vasi must somehow tie into it. To me, as a person who went to college and lived in the dorms, the Vasi thing never made a lick of sense. I know that you figured that it was possible because you visited the dorms in summer and found the journey to be very simple. To me it just seemed that you were desperate to prove something (i.e. by not at all replicating the conditions of that night). And since you claimed to have a lot of research it just naturally seemed like it was something that supported your suicide theory.

And though I agree with the evidence that you have, I can very easily make an argument on almost every point that it could just as easily not point to suicide. Again, like you, I have no idea what actually happened to Maura, but I still can see that many of the things that may appear to point o suicide, could point to a completely different scenario.

 

[Fireweed]

We do not know she took only alcohol with her.......there are a lot of details about the case that are sealed....You can read the Supreme Court Docket from new Hampshire....the investigation involves a homicide detective and there is so much round about talk of the evidence and POI, these are reasons cited why much of the evidence has been sealed....she may have refused help because of fear of LE.....or she may have been disoriented drinking and driving, then getting smashed in the face by an airbag....

Let's not argue people.....let's just contribute what we can in a civil fashion

Well, we "debate" here because it is important that we challenge each other; otherwise this board becomes complacent and stagnant. It is perfectly fine to challenge someone on their theories and interpretations.

I personally think that Maura was on a "three-beer buzz" at the time, so she was able to appear sober to Atwood, but was still drunk enough to flee in order to avoid a DUI.

 

[scoops]

Then why do bring up Vasi here so frequently? You have many times discussed and since you are so confident in your theories and your research, I always assumed that Vasi must somehow tie into it. To me, as a person who went to college and lived in the dorms, the Vasi thing never made a lick of sense. I know that you figured that it was possible because you visited the dorms in summer and found the journey to be very simple. To me it just seemed that you were desperate to prove something (i.e. by not at all replicating the conditions of that night). And since you claimed to have a lot of research it just naturally seemed like it was something that supported your suicide theory.

And though I agree with the evidence that you have, I can very easily make an argument on almost every point that it could just as easily not point to suicide. Again, like you, I have no idea what actually happened to Maura, but I still can see that many of the things that may appear to point o suicide, could point to a completely different scenario.

I have always stated that the reasons for explaining away the vasi hit and run and Maura's possible involvement were weak.

It had been originally described (vasi's hit and run) as taking place on the other side of town.

So I just never took the time to follow-up on it (until I stumbled onto the hit and run location that summer I visited campus).

Then I was forced (because I don't just blindly go by a theory, I want the details of the case to lead me to what happened) to pursue the vasi hit and run angle harder, until I could be convinced for sure that she wasn;t involved.

the only thing I was convinced about for sure (on this message board) was that the vasi hit and run and it's link to Maura couldn't be ruled out, but it never had anything to do with my theory of suicide.

 

[Fireweed]

I have always stated that the reasons for explaining away the vasi hit and run and Maura's possible involvement were weak.

It had been originally described (vasi's hit and run) as taking place on the other side of town.

So I just never took the time to follow-up on it (until I stumbled onto the hit and run location that summer I visited campus).

Then I was forced (because I don't just blindly go by a theory, I want the details of the case to lead me to what happened) to pursue the vasi hit and run angle harder, until I could be convinced for sure that she wasn;t involved.

the only thing I was convinced about for sure (on this message board) was that the vasi hit and run and it's link to Maura couldn't be ruled out, but it never had anything to do with my theory of suicide.

Fair enough.

 

[Fireweed]

We do not know she took only alcohol with her.......there are a lot of details about the case that are sealed....You can read the Supreme Court Docket from new Hampshire....the investigation involves a homicide detective and there is so much round about talk of the evidence and POI, these are reasons cited why much of the evidence has been sealed....she may have refused help because of fear of LE.....or she may have been disoriented drinking and driving, then getting smashed in the face by an airbag....

Let's not argue people.....let's just contribute what we can in a civil fashion

Hey, it seems that you have a lot of questions. May I suggest, if you have not done so already, of going to http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/ There is a lot of debate here about the accuracy of much of what is on there, so approach with a critical, yet open mind, but it is the best source for information in this case.

 

[syntaxkid]

it's clear she packed up the incriminating booze before she left the scene....I think she definitely fled the scene to avoid LE...she wasn't a stunt woman so i doubt she planned an accident and a tandem driver that none of the witnesses saw all within 3-7 minutes....she was a track runner, so it's seems natural to bolt from the situation....However, If she'd been drinking and was at all under-dressed for the elements, hypothermia could occur in 10-30 minutes...if the roads were iced over, there would be no prints.......I'm leaning away from Canada and away from suicide.....i think she either succumbed to the elements or was picked up hitchhiking and was met with foul play

I wonder if another search could be arranged in summer with a volunteer team and volunteer divers for any near by water bodies.....there are also forensic tools using sonogram, metal detectors, etc.....

I'd also like to offer my opinion as I am a practicing, board certified Psychiatrist....to the people who have profiled her as being slick in a manner that she could pull off some grand scheme......

Perfectionistic, weight conscious, bulimic girls typically (not always, I repeat not always) have an impulsive temperament....alcohol and bingeing are more the norm than an outlier.....yes, they can steal credit card numbers, yes they can shoplift.....but generally, they are too impulsive in the long run to plan much.....they often get caught, they often get into the same sort of trouble again and again until they gain insight and seek treatment....

2 car accidents both within days of one another, drunk driving in New Hampshire despite just having got off the hook by luck on Route 9 in Amherst.....this girl was perfectionistic and hard on herself,as well as impulsive....

I can tell you that perfectionism as a trait amongst people with other co-morbid mental health conditions (bulimia, alcohol dependence, possibly a mood disorder) is a well known and researched mediating factor for predicting suicide.....

I don't think she intended on suicide, but I believe it was definitely in her nature to have bolted from the scene impulsively so, and to have been unprepared to deal with the elements...she was a track runner and may have fled from there very quickly, which would have hastened hypothermia.....

The other option is she fled far enough to hitch a ride with the wrong person and met with foul play.....

Maura couldn't hold it together at West Point, couldn't hold it together at Umass, and a hard time holding it together in relationships....I don't believe she had the temperament or coping skills to have kept it together to flee the country, settle properly in Canada, and go off the grid all this time....just my humble opinion

 

[Fireweed]

it's clear she packed up the incriminating booze before she left the scene....I think she definitely fled the scene to avoid LE...she wasn't a stunt woman so i doubt she planned an accident and a tandem driver that none of the witnesses saw all within 3-7 minutes....she was a track runner, so it's seems natural to bolt from the situation....However, If she'd been drinking and was at all under-dressed for the elements, hypothermia could occur in 10-30 minutes...if the roads were iced over, there would be no prints.......I'm leaning away from Canada and away from suicide.....i think she either succumbed to the elements or was picked up hitchhiking and was met with foul play

I wonder if another search could be arranged in summer with a volunteer team and volunteer divers for any near by water bodies.....there are also forensic tools using sonogram, metal detectors, etc.....

I'd also like to offer my opinion as I am a practicing, board certified Psychiatrist....to the people who have profiled her as being slick in a manner that she could pull off some grand scheme......

Perfectionistic, weight conscious, bulimic girls typically (not always, I repeat not always) have an impulsive temperament....alcohol and bingeing are more the norm than an outlier.....yes, they can steal credit card numbers, yes they can shoplift.....but generally, they are too impulsive in the long run to plan much.....they often get caught, they often get into the same sort of trouble again and again until they gain insight and seek treatment....

2 car accidents both within days of one another, drunk driving in New Hampshire despite just having got off the hook by luck on Route 9 in Amherst.....this girl was perfectionistic and hard on herself,as well as impulsive....

I can tell you that perfectionism as a trait amongst people with other co-morbid mental health conditions (bulimia, alcohol dependence, possibly a mood disorder) is a well known and researched mediating factor for predicting suicide.....

I don't think she intended on suicide, but I believe it was definitely in her nature to have bolted from the scene impulsively so, and to have been unprepared to deal with the elements...she was a track runner and may have fled from there very quickly, which would have hastened hypothermia.....

The other option is she fled far enough to hitch a ride with the wrong person and met with foul play.....

Maura couldn't hold it together at West Point, couldn't hold it together at Umass, and a hard time holding it together in relationships....I don't believe she had the temperament or coping skills to have kept it together to flee the country, settle properly in Canada, and go off the grid all this time....just my humble opinion

I agree with you assessment of Maura; however, you will see I have bolded something I think is important. I have looked at several cases of people who disappeared voluntarily and were found later just by chance. I bring this up here a lot, so maybe I sound like a broken record, but here I go again: they were all impulsive! Disappearing is not a planned thing. Indeed, it is a rather impulsive and poorly thought-out thing. The reason that we think it requires planning is because none of us would ever do such a thing. Thus, we imagine that it is something that it is not. I cannot emphasize this enough. Our misconceptions of this act have bogged down and stymied the discussion about it here for years. People always ask, "well how did Maura plan it"? The answer is that she didn't. BTW, I am not married to the theory that Maura disappeared on her own, but I think that if the argument is that is requires a lot planning, then that is no argument at all. It does not require planning, and is in fact more suited for the impulsive/borderline type. If you think that Maura was impulsive, having difficulty adjusting, and was stressed, then she would be exactly the kind of person who just runs away and starts a new life. That is what those people are like.

And I do not believe at all that Maura would have to flee the country to start a new life. I think that is another misconception that has really kept the conversation here trapped in a quagmire. You can work under your own name and social security number and never show up on any police search.

 

[scoops]

I agree with you assessment of Maura; however, you will see I have bolded something I think is important. I have looked at several cases of people who disappeared voluntarily and were found later just by chance. I bring this up here a lot, so maybe I sound like a broken record, but here I go again: they were all impulsive! Disappearing is not a planned thing. Indeed, it is a rather impulsive and poorly thought-out thing. The reason that we think it requires planning is because none of us would ever do such a thing. Thus, we imagine that it is something that it is not. I cannot emphasize this enough. Our misconceptions of this act have bogged down and stymied the discussion about it here for years. People always ask, "well how did Maura plan it"? The answer is that she didn't. BTW, I am not married to the theory that Maura disappeared on her own, but I think that if the argument is that is requires a lot planning, then that is no argument at all. It does not require planning, and is in fact more suited for the impulsive/borderline type. If you think that Maura was impulsive, having difficulty adjusting, and was stressed, then she would be exactly the kind of person who just runs away and starts a new life. That is what those people are like.

And I do not believe at all that Maura would have to flee the country to start a new life. I think that is another misconception that has really kept the conversation here trapped in a quagmire. You can work under your own name and social security number and never show up on any police search.

So is Maura planning her escape or not planning her escape?

Because if you are implying that this was unplanned spur of the moment, then how do you explain all the steps Maura took prior to leaving campus.

She packed up her dorm.
She emptied her bank account
She gave away her lab coat to a fellow nursing student
She had directions (some on her computer, some with her when she ran away) for three separate locations (all of which were to hiking trails she had just been too)
She informed her nursing faculty and employers that she would be gone for a week

That sounds like someone that is involved in a plan to me, No?

 

[BillNH]

We don't know how big the coke bottle was. Many people have suggested that a 20 oz. bottle would be easier to drink from while driving, and I agree with this statement. In the pictures of the car that were taken years after the crash, a crumpled 20 oz. (could be 16 oz. I guess, but I think it is 20 oz.) diet coke bottle is visible through the windshield. Of course, we don't know that this is the bottle.

But if it were a 20 oz. bottle, and we know that Sgt. Smith found liquid still in the bottle, and we know that some of the liquid spilled on the driver's side door and ceiling, this would mean that Maura drank somewhere between 0 and 20 oz. of a liquid of unknown alcoholic content.

Butch Atwood told reporters that Maura did not appear intoxicated.

I'm not saying she wasn't drunk, but I think it is just as likely that she was not.

The scenario I always pictured was Maura filling a 20 oz. bottle with wine from the box in the back seat before leaving Amherst. Drink one, pull over, open the back door, refill 20 oz. bottle, back on the road, drink, pull over, refill, drive, etc. This would account for some or all of the time unaccounted for in her trip north especially if she exited the highway so as not to draw attention to herself by stopping on an expressway. I also tend to think that she was holding the bottle in her left hand and resting that hand on the top of her steering wheel at the time of her Haverhill accident. The impact would cause the top of the bottle to strike the windshield, causing the spidering crack originating from the inside. Those bottles are very rigid in an upright orientation and cap or no cap, the hardest part of the whole thing is the threaded top.

 

[BillNH]

I personally have a hard time coming to any good conclusion when it comes to Maura's mental state in the days and weeks before her disappearance. I think that much of what could be evidence for her totally falling apart could just as easily be her own set-up for her disappearance.

Or it could be just us perceiving she was falling apart. Without knowing her personally I think its a mistake to determine what her mental state was. She had an upsetting phone call on Thursday, she had a car accident that upset (her father said) her on Sunday morning. Hardly a devastating 4 days even if immediately surrounding those instances she was upset. Why do we have to collectively connect them and everything else that happened to her as proof of mental instability? We have summarily filled in the blanks surrounding 2 events over 5 days and have made her a mental wreck. Who here has not had a bad few days? In addition to a phone call and an accident, she ordered some delicious pizza, she had dinner with dad, some drinks, she went to a party, she spent a day to herself in her room. Many feel she was brooding, maybe she was having a great time. Reading, web surfing, maybe she even had a guy over. Not horrible things but we tend to put a negative twist on her actions that maybe shouldn't be there.

What if the phone call was genuinely upsetting, the depression about her accident with dads car was to keep dad from yelling at her and the rest of the time she just enjoyed getting drunk? What if on Monday she was headed somewhere for purely reasons of personal satisfaction (insert any theory here) and the Haverhill accident was just an annoyance. Not a devastating cap to the previous 4 days, just an annoyance. She hops out of the car, swigs down half a 20 oz. bottle of wine, tosses that nonchalantly on the ground and after having to deal with a bus driver who showed up (another annoyance) she belched, scratched her , and hopped in the next car coming by that was headed to Lincoln and whatever her plans were. Smile on her face and freedom in her future...

Nothing says it couldn't have happened that way. We have created her mood and mental state from our own personal feelings.

 

[BillNH]

It's not impossible no, you could work under the table especially in a place like toronto, or anywhere in ontario for that matter.....but I don't believe she would have been able to make it there in the first place, not on that night....not without a record of crossing or freezing to death.....there is only one crossing in that region and that is Vermont, not NH......did she have any contacts in Canada? or spend time in Canada in the past????

If there is only 1 crossing now, its very recent, in 2013 I rented a cabin in Quebec and passed across in 3 different places in a 15 mile stretch of border and that's not even counting the Derby line crossing that is now closed. I believe 2 were in VT, and one in NH. One of the Vermont crossings is literally a couple minutes from the VT, NH border. ID was not required in 2004 either. It took several years after 9/11 for the rules to change here. I passed into and out of Quebec several times in 2005 and was never asked for ID. Passports are required now but I believe that took effect in 2007 or 2008.

 

[Fireweed]

So is Maura planning her escape or not planning her escape?

Because if you are implying that this was unplanned spur of the moment, then how do you explain all the steps Maura took prior to leaving campus.

She packed up her dorm.
She emptied her bank account
She gave away her lab coat to a fellow nursing student
She had directions (some on her computer, some with her when she ran away) for three separate locations (all of which were to hiking trails she had just been too)
She informed her nursing faculty and employers that she would be gone for a week

That sounds like someone that is involved in a plan to me, No?

Okay, sorry I should have been more clear. Deciding on Sunday and leaving on Monday would be an impulsive act for such a big change to me. If I decided to move to Maine tomorrow and went and did it, despite me doing some things to me the move, that would still be a very impulsive act. Impulsive acts are relative. Meeting a guy in a bar and sleeping with him an hour later is rather impulsive; meeting that same guy and marrying him two weeks later is more impulsive, even if you spent three days "planning" the wedding. Get it?

I think that for people who take off, they have been dissatisfied and looking for a solution to their problems for quite a long time. The idea of running away pops into their head, but the actual final act takes place over just a few days. If a person decided on Friday that they are going to do it, and they tie up a few loose ends that weekend, and then take off on Monday, that is still very impulsive, and with Maura the evidence that you yourself give is that Maura did all of it on the very day she left. That is impulsive, scoops.

 

[Fireweed]

Or it could be just us perceiving she was falling apart. Without knowing her personally I think its a mistake to determine what her mental state was. She had an upsetting phone call on Thursday, she had a car accident that upset (her father said) her on Sunday morning. Hardly a devastating 4 days even if immediately surrounding those instances she was upset. Why do we have to collectively connect them and everything else that happened to her as proof of mental instability? We have summarily filled in the blanks surrounding 2 events over 5 days and have made her a mental wreck. Who here has not had a bad few days? In addition to a phone call and an accident, she ordered some delicious pizza, she had dinner with dad, some drinks, she went to a party, she spent a day to herself in her room. Many feel she was brooding, maybe she was having a great time. Reading, web surfing, maybe she even had a guy over. Not horrible things but we tend to put a negative twist on her actions that maybe shouldn't be there.

What if the phone call was genuinely upsetting, the depression about her accident with dads car was to keep dad from yelling at her and the rest of the time she just enjoyed getting drunk? What if on Monday she was headed somewhere for purely reasons of personal satisfaction (insert any theory here) and the Haverhill accident was just an annoyance. Not a devastating cap to the previous 4 days, just an annoyance. She hops out of the car, swigs down half a 20 oz. bottle of wine, tosses that nonchalantly on the ground and after having to deal with a bus driver who showed up (another annoyance) she belched, scratched her , and hopped in the next car coming by that was headed to Lincoln and whatever her plans were. Smile on her face and freedom in her future...

Nothing says it couldn't have happened that way. We have created her mood and mental state from our own personal feelings.

Excellent Bill. She obviously was "fine" enough to have dinner with her father and a friend. Show of hands here. How many of us, when is a truly devastated state, have gone out to dinner? I know I have not. When I have been at those moments of pure devastation, I stay home.

One final thing. We do not know that there was an "upsetting phone call." There is not any conclusive evidence of that. We know that Maura had a breakdown a bit after her last phone call, and no one has ever come forward with being the person on the other end of the line. She muttered "my sister," and yet there is not a smidgen of evidence that anything was wrong with either of her sisters, or that she was having a severe interpersonal crisis with any other them. If anything, the circumstances surrounding the "breakdown" point to it being an act by Maura.

 

[Fireweed]

If there is only 1 crossing now, its very recent, in 2013 I rented a cabin in Quebec and passed across in 3 different places in a 15 mile stretch of border and that's not even counting the Derby line crossing that is now closed. I believe 2 were in VT, and one in NH. One of the Vermont crossings is literally a couple minutes from the VT, NH border. ID was not required in 2004 either. It took several years after 9/11 for the rules to change here. I passed into and out of Quebec several times in 2005 and was never asked for ID. Passports are required now but I believe that took effect in 2007 or 2008.

I think sometimes people forget how very porous the borders were even after 9/11. Everyone must understand that despite a need for tighter border control, there simply was not the infrastructure in place to make that a reality for quite some time. I think it was in 2009 or so that one needed a passport to go to Mexico. Things did not happen immediately after 9/11. Maura could have crossed into Canada and just shown her DL, without anyone scanning it.

 

[scoops]

Excellent Bill. She obviously was "fine" enough to have dinner with her father and a friend. Show of hands here. How many of us, when is a truly devastated state, have gone out to dinner? I know I have not. When I have been at those moments of pure devastation, I stay home.

One final thing. We do not know that there was an "upsetting phone call." There is not any conclusive evidence of that. We know that Maura had a breakdown a bit after her last phone call, and no one has ever come forward with being the person on the other end of the line. She muttered "my sister," and yet there is not a smidgen of evidence that anything was wrong with either of her sisters, or that she was having a severe interpersonal crisis with any other them. If anything, the circumstances surrounding the "breakdown" point to it being an act by Maura.

So now Maura's happy go-lucky?

Two wrecks (one head-on) in the span of 48 hours
A Father's intuition which is that his daughter took off to do personal harm to herself
Her leaving a very personal note (that would cause embarrassment for her and her boyfriend) to be found to whomever it was that would first encounter her dorm room

A "staged" meltdown at work (three and a half days prior to her running away) for someone who is allegedly suppose to be impulsive

Complete avoidance of family and friends on the day she went missing


Umm K.

 

[Fireweed]

So now Maura's happy go-lucky?

Two wrecks (one head-on) in the span of 48 hours
A Father's intuition which is that his daughter took off to do personal harm to herself
Her leaving a very personal note (that would cause embarrassment for her and her boyfriend) to be found to whomever it was that would first encounter her dorm room

A "staged" meltdown at work (three and a half days prior to her running away) for someone who is allegedly suppose to be impulsive

Complete avoidance of family and friends on the day she went missing


Umm K.

I did not say that at all. Once again, you have completely invented something someone said and decided to argue against it. That is called a strawman argument and it contributes nothing at all and is always done by someone without the ability to simply argue against what was really said. But, sigh, I am getting used to it.

Again, I am not married to one theory (like you are). I am simply making points about the evidence we have and trying to hash out theories and different lines of thinking and logic. I do not necessarily think that Maura ran away. The points I have been trying to make, is that using the evidence and the train of logic that you use, I could also argue that that might point to an impulsive person, and that being impulsive would fit in with being a runaway.

 

[scoops]

I did not say that at all. Once again, you have completely invented something someone said and decided to argue against it. That is called a strawman argument and it contributes nothing at all and is always done by someone without the ability to simply argue against what was really said. But, sigh, I am getting used to it.

Again, I am not married to one theory (like you are). I am simply making points about the evidence we have and trying to hash out theories and different lines of thinking and logic. I do not necessarily think that Maura ran away. The points I have been trying to make, is that using the evidence and the train of logic that you use, I could also argue that that might point to an impulsive person, and that being impulsive would fit in with being a runaway.

So .... take out my first sentence then and pretend that it was never said.


Two wrecks (one head-on) in the span of 48 hours
A Father's intuition which is that his daughter took off to do personal harm to herself
Her leaving a very personal note (that would cause embarrassment for her and her boyfriend) to be found to whomever it was that would first encounter her dorm room

A "staged" meltdown at work (three and a half days prior to her running away) for someone who is allegedly suppose to be impulsive

Complete avoidance of family and friends on the day she went missing

Does that sound like someone who is "fine enough" as you put it?
Does that sound like someone who was "having a good time" as Bill put it?

 

[scoops]

Some people are truly funny.

They will spend hours/days/weeks arguing against a suicide theory when it comes to this case, yet when it comes to theories such as running away to a new life, being picked up by the wrong person, partying out in the woods with friends, tandem driving across the country, they have about one thought or one post to make on those subjects.

Why is that?


If those are all truly good theories, shouldn't there be some substance behind them somewhere?