NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #13

[iridescentrose]

This may seem like a random question but it's a curiosity for a number of case-related reasons.

What do her parents do for a living?

 

[Caffeine]

This may seem like a random question but it's a curiosity for a number of case-related reasons.

What do her parents do for a living?

I believe, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, her parents were divorced. Mom passed away years after her disappearance, maybe around 2009.

Her dad was some type of medical technician, he was actually working in CT when Maura vanished. I'm not sure if he still works in healthcare, but at least back then he did.

 

[Tssiemer]

I was under the impression her family had money.


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[Caffeine]

I was under the impression her family had money.


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It's hard to say, but I lean to no simply because it was discovered that Fred's house was being foreclosed on at one point.

But you never know. People in New England who have tons of money usually either 1) flaunt it to the extreme or 2) Save all their money and live very frugal...perhaps due to the depression era mindset instilled in them

 

[McSpy]

This may seem like a random question but it's a curiosity for a number of case-related reasons.

What do her parents do for a living?

If I recall correctly, her father works for a lab of some sort. Her mother passed away a few years ago on Maura's birthday.

 

[goldiegirl]

I think, as with a lot of things, we expect to have this neat picture of everything that hold the many pieces of the puzzle, it's just a matter of gathering the pieces and putting them together to form a clear view of what happened.

And in this big picture we have all these actions intertwined that when we get to the bottom of it, we have a concise set of events that will make perfect sense.

With this case, I don't get that feeling at all. We can speculate she perhaps, just as an example, embarked on this trip to commit suicide and despite some set backs that ultimately what she did.

But our actions aren't always that simple, we make decisions constantly that can change the course of our lives, whether it's simple things we decide upon or more difficult things that may present themselves in a situation we are not expecting.

She may have went on a trip for a plethora of reasons, but in the end she crashed her car and that set forth a whole new series of events and choices to be made. A simple plan could have got complicated really quickly and opened the door to new events.

I think we're all expecting 1+1=2 here but in the end I don't think we'll necessarily see a clean, neat and simple explanation for this.

This, exactly, is my thought. I base this off of my own experiences with a perpetually suicidal family member, lots of professional experience with mental illness and substance abuse, years of following this and other complicated cases, and some of my own struggles in my college days. Things are not always black and white in these situations. In fact, I'd say they RARELY are. Look at Bryce Laspisa's case, for instance, and what an absolute mess that puzzle has become. I have done things in the past that I can't even explain to myself, let alone that I'd feel the need to let someone know about in advance (as Renner suggests Maura would have). I've taken drives to certain places for no reason at all when I've been upset. Had something untoward happened, people could have speculated until the cows came home as to why I was where I was, but it wouldn't have ever meant anything. When overwhelming circumstances and alcohol are combined, with or without prior suicidal ideation, I've personally known people to do things that don't make a lick of sense, even to themselves. Suicide, in itself, isn't even so black and white, especially when substances are involved. I've had more experiences than I'd like to recount with people who have recovered from some type of overdose and answered the question of, "Were you trying to kill yourself, or was this an accident?" with, "I really don't know."

ETA: I am, in some ways, referring to Maura's drive in the first place and trying to define the "yes" or "no" over her being suicidal, but we do know that she did some research and planning prior to leaving, so I'm thinking more in terms of her frame of mind after having wrecked her car and consumed alcohol on top of an already crazy situation.

 

[goldiegirl]

When I first started researching this case, I thought that she had run into the woods, but I don't think the evidence matches that at all. Despite Renner's blog being a lot of him inserting himself into the situation aggressively, I still appreciate how much information he lays out in such an organized way (or at least, initially). But now, there's a disconnect in his blog that I think people are misunderstanding. He has his own opinion just like we do and it's prevalent recently because there's no movement in the case, but people are still expecting content.

I personally think that she planned to run away from all the wrongs she had done and wanted to cut ties with Billy and her dad (rag in tailpipe, leaving all her stuff behind, she was a very shady and secretive person, about to get kicked out of another school for theft, didn't want to stay with Billy, her dad probably pushing her to improve her life, open alcohol in the car either drank or staged, packed up her stuff at school - not planning on coming back, possible hit and run, dog lost scent in the middle of the road, she didn't want help from the bus driver).

Although the one thing that confuses me is the cop stating that one man won't let them X-ray a concrete slab he kept pouring for no reason in his yard. Does anyone know more about this?

I don't know anything about this concrete slab. This gives me the heebie jeebies. Has it been discussed?

 

[Brainy]

I have always wondered if Maura staged the NH accident to go into hiding. I don’t know the odds of that… but if someone harmed her after she had the accident, it must have been the right person at the right time to appear anywhere near her on that relatively desolate snowy road. Especially that the time the bus driver spotted her and the time the time police arrived, I believe police came to the scene 7 minutes after the call, if I recall it correctly. Now, what are the odds that someone dangerous picked her up in that 7 minute window?

I have always wondered if the locals are not telling what they know.

Also, I remember that when people went to look for her in the woods the next day, there were no footprint in the snow of any sorts. Meaning, she likely didn’t go into the woods.

 

[U2forever]

D


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[DakotaMayi]

I don't know anything about this concrete slab. This gives me the heebie jeebies. Has it been discussed?

Hi. I am relatively new here so hi to all.

I have been following Maura's case so long, it is actually the thread that bought me to WS and I haven't heard about the concrete slab either, would love to know more if anyone knows more?

Thanks,
Kat

 

[Caffeine]

Hi. I am relatively new here so hi to all.

I have been following Maura's case so long, it is actually the thread that bought me to WS and I haven't heard about the concrete slab either, would love to know more if anyone knows more?

Thanks,
Kat

I'm on mobile right now, but I'll find some links later.

The concrete slab has been discussed a few times. First, Rick Forcier who lived near the crash site and spoke with police was building a new house at the time of the disappearance. He initially stated he may have seen Maura on the road that night. Police seemed interested in him and wanted to search his property but he never let them, I think once he sold the property they ended up searching and found nothing.

James Conrad, former NH LE, mentioned on FB authorities had a viable suspect but lacked probable cause to pursue charges. He speculated Maura might be buried under the house, likely in the concrete foundation.

He could have been talking about Forcier...but there is another person who's been mentioned before as well.

Again, I'm on mobile and just going by memory here but there is another local whose family owns a concrete business. His aunt just happens to be the county prosecutor as well. Apparently he's been on LE's radar and has denied a property search previously. It's been said he poured a slab right after she disappeared, one that served no obvious purpose. But no probable cause and obviously with the county prosecutor part of the family it makes things difficult.

I believe he was mentioned previously in a Reddit thread, I'll have to do more digging, I nearly forgot about it.

 

[DakotaMayi]

Thank you Caffeine. Another interesting branch to this story. This cases will always stick with me. I don't think I will ever be able to move away from the this was a planned runaway theory. I feel this is just a waiting game to find out what became of Maura.

I'm on mobile right now, but I'll find some links later. The concrete slab has been discussed a few times. First, Rick Forcier who lived near the crash site and spoke with police was building a new house at the time of the disappearance. He initially stated he may have seen Maura on the road that night. Police seemed interested in him and wanted to search his property but he never let them, I think once he sold the property they ended up searching and found nothing.James Conrad, former NH LE, mentioned on FB authorities had a viable suspect but lacked probable cause to pursue charges. He speculated Maura might be buried under the house, likely in the concrete foundation.He could have been talking about Forcier...but there is another person who's been mentioned before as well. Again, I'm on mobile and just going by memory here but there is another local whose family owns a concrete business. His aunt just happens to be the county prosecutor as well. Apparently he's been on LE's radar and has denied a property search previously. It's been said he poured a slab right after she disappeared, one that served no obvious purpose. But no probable cause and obviously with the county prosecutor part of the family it makes things difficult.I believe he was mentioned previously in a Reddit thread, I'll have to do more digging, I nearly forgot about it.

 

[Brainy]

I'm on mobile right now, but I'll find some links later.

The concrete slab has been discussed a few times. First, Rick Forcier who lived near the crash site and spoke with police was building a new house at the time of the disappearance. He initially stated he may have seen Maura on the road that night. Police seemed interested in him and wanted to search his property but he never let them, I think once he sold the property they ended up searching and found nothing.

James Conrad, former NH LE, mentioned on FB authorities had a viable suspect but lacked probable cause to pursue charges. He speculated Maura might be buried under the house, likely in the concrete foundation.

He could have been talking about Forcier...but there is another person who's been mentioned before as well.

Again, I'm on mobile and just going by memory here but there is another local whose family owns a concrete business. His aunt just happens to be the county prosecutor as well. Apparently he's been on LE's radar and has denied a property search previously. It's been said he poured a slab right after she disappeared, one that served no obvious purpose. But no probable cause and obviously with the county prosecutor part of the family it makes things difficult.

I believe he was mentioned previously in a Reddit thread, I'll have to do more digging, I nearly forgot about it.

Wow. I have done some unbelievable amount research about Maura’s case and still wasn’t aware of this! Very interesting. I wonder why the guy didn’t allow the police to search his property, what did he have to hide? Although, if he was involved in any way I don’t think he would have said anything at all… he would just say nothing.

I really don’t think Maura ran away… where would she go? She was probably drunk, had no idea what she was doing and made a poor decision in the heat of the moment. Until she remains disappeared there is no way her family can have a closure or find peace. I didn’t know Maura personally but think of her disappearance very often and wonder what happened to her. I try putting pieces together, there just seems to be so many pieces in this puzzle and many of the pieces just don’t seem to make sense… like no footprints in the snow, the car was locked… someone picked her up in that very short window of time and took her somewhere… all the other theories seem implausible…where would she go in the middle of the night and how far she could go in that freezing weather. If she indeed went into the woods, then there must have been footprints and enough evidence to make me believe that she did so and there appears to be none.

Another plausible theory… what if she tried walking up the road and was struck by a car/vehicle and then her body was taken into the car and dumped somewhere?

 

[Caffeine]

Another plausible theory… what if she tried walking up the road and was struck by a car/vehicle and then her body was taken into the car and dumped somewhere?

I've wondered that myself, but I think a random motorist would have the empathy and conscience to do the right thing here.

However, if they were heavily intoxicated or for whatever other reason didn't want police involved, I could understand that angle.

Though, as far as the cement slab story, it might just be a local rumor, it might be unfounded or maybe exaggerated but there is a certain ring of truth to it...

Obviously, if Maura was murdered there was likely a certain degree of preparation to ensure her body wouldn't be found. Also, being wealthy and connected to local LE helps too.

Even Renner noted that when he spoke with the PI John Healy that he speculated Butch Atwood may have seen someone pick up Maura...someone he was afraid of. It's interesting because no one has alluded to that before.

I don't know how much I buy into it, but it certainly presents a reasonable scenario as to how a young female vanished without a trace.

 

[laurabranigan]

No disrespect, but the odds of her staging an exit this sophisticated and in such a short time frame borders comic book villain plan execution. Can't fault the police for not pursuing this angle any further honestly as it's absolutely outlandish and would be without precedent. Same goes for her hopping into some car within that tiny time frame and supposedly getting murdered. What are the odds, really?

I think the fact the dogs lost her scent in the middle of the street should not be overrated and might well be meaningless as false positives are common and in the face of how unlikely every theory that doesn't involve "ran distressed into the woods, got disoriented and died" is.

Given that most mysteries that got resolved in the past usually end up with rather "unspectacular" resolutions, I'd suggest we keep things realistic here as well. She clearly had a very troubling time at that point in her life (which wasn't presented overly well by the Disappeared episode to be frank) and was likely not a mastermind who staged a disappearance this inconceivable.

 

[DakotaMayi]

I happen to think that any angle looked at be it murder, runaway etc is realistic. Any option is possible, unfortunately.

 

[Caffeine]

The fact that she was likely drunk always suggested to me she subsequently fell victim to accident or was taken advantage of by someone. Whether that entails she went off in the woods or was picked up by someone, she managed to beat the odds of not being seen leaving the accident and not being noticed.

However, the idea that she was killed by another person I don't think is that outlandish - there was a case in New Mexico where a woman vanished in a similar manner and was ultimately murdered. Sometimes the timing is just perfect and things like that happen.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

No disrespect, but the odds of her staging an exit this sophisticated and in such a short time frame borders comic book villain plan execution. Can't fault the police for not pursuing this angle any further honestly as it's absolutely outlandish and would be without precedent. Same goes for her hopping into some car within that tiny time frame and supposedly getting murdered. What are the odds, really?

I think the fact the dogs lost her scent in the middle of the street should not be overrated and might well be meaningless as false positives are common and in the face of how unlikely every theory that doesn't involve "ran distressed into the woods, got disoriented and died" is.

Given that most mysteries that got resolved in the past usually end up with rather "unspectacular" resolutions, I'd suggest we keep things realistic here as well. She clearly had a very troubling time at that point in her life (which wasn't presented overly well by the Disappeared episode to be frank) and was likely not a mastermind who staged a disappearance this inconceivable.

I agree with the vast majority of what you said but if she fled the scene on foot, as witnesses indicate she did, then there was nothing to distinguish Maura at that point from the scores of young women who fall victim to predatory men under identical circumstances every year. If death from exposure is the most likely scenario, then foul play is almost certainly runner-up.

 

[DakotaMayi]

is there no chance she got in a car with someone she knew?

 

[bluesneakers]

is there no chance she got in a car with someone she knew?

That's one of my theories. I don't say a tandem driver because to me that implies her intent was to get into that person's car (suggesting the voluntary disappearance) rather than they were simply going to the same place.