NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 #15

[sony12]

To me, it’s completely plausible that MM would have alcohol with her just because wherever she was driving. Like I said, I believe the girl needed significant professional help and was deeply troubled. Just sad her story had to end like it likely did.

I'll just respond to this particular part of your post right now. If there is any truth to this at all than that falls on Fred's shoulders for being an irresponsible parent. If she was as deeply troubled as you imply here than they should have taken her vehicles away from her and not allowed her to drive. But instead Fred was about ready to buy her a newer one that would make her want to drive even more. I don't care if she gets kicked out of a program. If she was that deeply troubled her family should have stepped in and taken her to a situation where she could be watched over more closely and not have access to things that could get her into trouble.

I personally think she was just a dumb and irresponsible kid but not a situation where she would need professional help or anything.

 

[PezCandy]

Unfortunately my BIL drinks and drives, it pisses me off to no end as 2 of my dear friends in high school were killed by someone who drinks and drives, one was 15 and the other was 17, never even had the chance to graduate, and then I had another dear friend who was killed by a drunk driver but her baby survived. My BIL was pulled over just last year for open container WITH HIS DAUGHTER IN THE CAR, and in the middle of a CPS case. You would think that one would learn to get their head out of the sand but apparently not, especially if drinking is considered your “drug of choice”, he’s the guy who shows up drunk at every holiday, church, hell even the hospital.
I speculate that unfortunately MM had a drinking problem (imo)

 

[PezCandy]

Some parents have a hard time saying “No” to their kids, which isn’t always a good thing that’s for sure.

 

[sony12]

Some parents have a hard time saying “No” to their kids, which isn’t always a good thing that’s for sure.

That's true. And I do have a feeling that alcoholism may have run in the Murray family. We know Maura's sister was in rehab and a lot of times when kids have that much trouble with it they often had parents/aunts/uncles that had difficulty with it as well.

 

[PezCandy]

E

That's true. And I do have a feeling that alcoholism may have run in the Murray family. We know Maura's sister was in rehab and a lot of times when kids have that much trouble with it they often had parents/aunts/uncles that had difficulty with it as well.

This is so true, my hubs mom is addicted to meth and did it even during her pregnancies and his dad is an alcoholic (they are divorced), my hubs brothers are either alcoholics or do meth. The only 2 out of the 5 kids that are not addicted to drugs or alcohol is my hubs and his oldest brother that has a different dad that took him away from his mom cuz of her meth use. my hubs grew up in a real crappy environment because of his mom, so that was enough for him to say no. So in his case 2 out of 5 of those boys didn’t pick up a nasty habit from their parents or family, it’ll either tempt you to use or tempt you to be straight edge.
In MM case I think she was in the tempt side of it all, probably more closeted than her sister with the alcohol. I think that maybe she was more favored (imo) out of the kids so it was even harder for him to say “no”.

 

[ACG2x]

I'll just respond to this particular part of your post right now. If there is any truth to this at all than that falls on Fred's shoulders for being an irresponsible parent. If she was as deeply troubled as you imply here than they should have taken her vehicles away from her and not allowed her to drive. But instead Fred was about ready to buy her a newer one that would make her want to drive even more. I don't care if she gets kicked out of a program. If she was that deeply troubled her family should have stepped in and taken her to a situation where she could be watched over more closely and not have access to things that could get her into trouble.

I personally think she was just a dumb and irresponsible kid but not a situation where she would need professional help or anything.

Irresponsible is a bit strong in this case I think. MM was an adult at the time and capable of making her own life decisions. Once your children become adults, there's only so much you can do. Fred, while good intentioned and a seemingly loving parent, also appears to be an enabler. If you look at classic signs of this, Fred and to an extent Julie display several of them - especially #3.

This doesn't make them bad people or family members. Some people just can't face the truth about who their loved one is/was. I said I personally believe with all her self-destructive behavior that MM was deeply troubled and had an alcohol problem. I never said Fred was willing to believe that or deep down he knew, but looked the other way because many parents don't want to accept hard truths about a child of theirs.

 

[sony12]

Irresponsible is a bit strong in this case I think. MM was an adult at the time and capable of making her own life decisions. Once your children become adults, there's only so much you can do. Fred, while good intentioned and a seemingly loving parent, also appears to be an enabler. If you look at classic signs of this, Fred and to an extent Julie display several of them - especially #3

To be honest I don't believe that at all that once someone becomes an adult than they should make their own decisions no matter what. To be honest in my opinion families that do that aren't extremely functional. They should be allowed to make their own decisions as long as they are not displaying signs of self destructive behavior. But if they are showing signs than families need to step in no matter what the age of the person. Families that care for eachother are going to do whatever they can to keep their adult child or brother or sister from being a drug addict or an alcohol abuser that isn't smart enough to know that they shouldn't mix drinking and driving.

Families that choose not to step in are not families at all. You can pretty much just call them 'friends' at that point.

 

[sony12]

I'm not a big fan of trying to give definitions to all these various attitudes. In regards to the topic we are discussing it really just boils down to two points. Do you care enough or do you not care enough.

 

[PezCandy]

If she did run into the woods and had taken the alcohol with her do you think that the bottles would be out there? Did any of the searchers perhaps seen the bottles and think nothing of it because people will throw garbage out in the woods so they just overlooked it?? I always see junk in the woods and wouldn’t have a second thought on why it was out there. Just pondering

 

[Eddie99]

I've never had a solid theory on this case.

I think it is very likley she is within a few miles of her accident site.

That being said.

1. I don't think she was going to wherever she was going to be alone.

2. She said she was leaving because of a family death. Could she have been under the impression that there was a death.

 

[PezCandy]

I've never had a solid theory on this case.

I think it is very likley she is within a few miles of her accident site.

That being said.

1. I don't think she was going to wherever she was going to be alone.

2. She said she was leaving because of a family death. Could she have been under the impression that there was a death.

IIRC her sister stated a couple years ago that there wasn’t a death in the family, referring to the phone call that MM was crying and upset, but that her sister started drinking again and in a not so good relationship. I could have that part mixed up as I’m looking for a decent msm that talks about that.
But as time goes on I’m wondering if MM was referring (imo jmo moo) to the death in the family being herself? Like she knew something bad was going to happen so she had a fight or flight reaction. I’m speculating that because of things that were going on in MMS life prior to her disappearance. I know it may be far fetched but it’s just one of the many the theories I have reguarding MMS case. My thoughts differ the more things I find out. She’s been gone for such a long time and really no trace of her has ever been found. I was reading awhile back about an abandoned backpack that was believed to be hers but I think that it was ruled out that it wasn’t hers. Does Fred still have MMs car?

 

[Moonbeam456]

If she was leaving the scene of the car accident just to avoid the police I don’t think she would’ve taken the time to grab the alcohol. I think she grabbed it and either got a ride from someone she knew who was following her to wherever her destination was or she caught a ride with stranger and was harmed or given a ride to another location. I don’t think she was going up there to spend a weekend by herself.

 

[sony12]

IIRC her sister stated a couple years ago that there wasn’t a death in the family, referring to the phone call that MM was crying and upset, but that her sister started drinking again and in a not so good relationship. I could have that part mixed up as I’m looking for a decent msm that talks about that.
But as time goes on I’m wondering if MM was referring (imo jmo moo) to the death in the family being herself? Like she knew something bad was going to happen so she had a fight or flight reaction. I’m speculating that because of things that were going on in MMS life prior to her disappearance. I know it may be far fetched but it’s just one of the many the theories I have reguarding MMS case. My thoughts differ the more things I find out. She’s been gone for such a long time and really no trace of her has ever been found. I was reading awhile back about an abandoned backpack that was believed to be hers but I think that it was ruled out that it wasn’t hers. Does Fred still have MMs car?

Oh it definitely is a possibility that she was intending on killing herself all along. It isn't uncommon at all for people in their late teens or early twenties to decide to kill themselves when they are going through a rough patch in their personal lives. Probably the biggest reason why the case has gone on for as long as it has is because people simply don't know where to look. She easily could have died a hundred miles away from the crash site. Even if she only died ten miles away from the crash site people still wouldn't know where to look. And to be honest it is a real possibility that her body has already been found and she is some Jane Doe out there. If she got out of the area and decided to hide who she was in the following days or weeks when the case built up steam then she would be difficult to identify if something happened to her after that while she was in an entirely different location.

Though Maura's story is a little unique because it is a situation where she virtually just vanished into thin air. At the same time though she definitely isn't the only situation where someone's abandoned car was found in the woods and they are yet to be discovered.

 

[embufum]

When you get a speeding ticket the court date is on the ticket but most people just pay the fine. Maura got her license revoked in that state so she probably got a notice in the mail with a reinstatement fee. Two things imo are unlikely, that she planned to court to fight the ticket and that she ever planned on paying the fine unless she had to.

What I find so perplexing is how no one seems to have any info about the actually ticket or maybe the do and are just not saying. This guy that interviewed Julie needs to take a refresher course on asking questions. The biggest piece of news since Maura goes missing and not one question about the actual ticket. I may have missed some info but I would have asked her if she knew the date of the ticket, how much was she fined, where exactly was she when she got pulled over, why was she there, was she driving her car, who else was she with, what time of day was it. She obviously wasn't drinking so this does show that she doesn't always drink and drive.

The very first time I heard about this case and read the death in the family excuse the first thing I thought was she was getting an abortion. Technically if she was getting an abortion she was telling the truth. This was before I heard about her nursing test on fetal alcohol syndrome. I'm not buying that excuse, at least not 100%. Maura was on the pill but we don't know if she was taking it regularly and I have a friend who's wife got preggo on the pill. Assuming she was pregnant it would surprise me if she didn't look up how heavy drinking can affect the baby. If she wasn't then it was just a coincidence that she happened to say there was a death in the family, was looking up fetal alcohol syndrome and going away for a few days. I want to add that if Maura was pregnant it DOES NOT make her a bad person imo.

I also don't judge Julie for down playing some of the stuff she was asked and here's why. Julie believes her sister is dead and I don't expect her to come out and admit that her sister was a thief and a drunk and I'm not implying that she was but we all know what she did so why even bother to ask and if you do there's not a lot of reason to go to deep into it. One thing that just popped into my head that I always found odd. When Renner interviewed Hoss he said that Maura never mentioned her dad. According to Renner Hoss had this to say,

"Another interesting thing Hoss said was that Maura never once mentioned her father. In fact, he assumed her father was dead. Maura was not speaking to her mother or Julie. Though she did seem close to Kurt in an almost motherly way." Renner also said that, Hoss said Maura talked about running away - starting a new life, possibly in Mexico.

Hoss could be lying but how would he know that Maura was not talking to her sister and mother at the time. He claims he was seeing her when Maura was on a break from Bill and also when her and Bill were together. Renner said out of all the people he interviewed he thought Hoss was the only one who was totally honest with him.

 

[PezCandy]

@embufum the abortion thing has came up quite a bit but I thought someone said that she was looking up fetal alcohol syndrome for the class or something she was taking???, it might have actually mentioned up thread somewhere. Either way, there is many reasons one might opt for an abortion, no judgement there. It’s a tough decision to make.

@sony12 I often wonder if she’s a Jane Doe somewhere. I really haven’t heard much about her mom compared to her sister and dad, was she estranged from mom?

there is a couple cases I can think of where people have simply disappeared mysteriously to commit suicide, Chris Kerze has been gone since 90, no trace of him either (there is a thread of him here on WS) he took his dads gun and family van, the van was found but the gun never was, and the bizarre case of Granger Taylor, he was very intelligent, google him if if you guys haven’t heard about him, he believed that he was going to be picked up by a UFO for a journey to space but friends and family believe he left to commit suicide as there was a hand drawn map on the back of his note.
So really anything is possible.

With MM there is soooo many scenarios of what might’ve happened because we don’t know much of what happened after the crash. There has been no trace of her ever since then, it’s a very baffling case. I hear she was close to her family then I hear that she was more estranged from them. It’s really hard to tell what the heck was going on.

 

[embufum]

@embufum the abortion thing has came up quite a bit but I thought someone said that she was looking up fetal alcohol syndrome for the class or something she was taking???, it might have actually mentioned up thread somewhere. Either way, there is many reasons one might opt for an abortion, no judgement there. It’s a tough decision to make.

@sony12 I often wonder if she’s a Jane Doe somewhere. I really haven’t heard much about her mom compared to her sister and dad, was she estranged from mom?

there is a couple cases I can think of where people have simply disappeared mysteriously to commit suicide, Chris Kerze has been gone since 90, no trace of him either (there is a thread of him here on WS) he took his dads gun and family van, the van was found but the gun never was, and the bizarre case of Granger Taylor, he was very intelligent, google him if if you guys haven’t heard about him, he believed that he was going to be picked up by a UFO for a journey to space but friends and family believe he left to commit suicide as there was a hand drawn map on the back of his note.
So really anything is possible.

With MM there is soooo many scenarios of what might’ve happened because we don’t know much of what happened after the crash. There has been no trace of her ever since then, it’s a very baffling case. I hear she was close to her family then I hear that she was more estranged from them. It’s really hard to tell what the heck was going on.

I think it may be just like any other family where at that particular time she might not have been speaking to her mom and sister. Still find it odd that she mentions two family members she isn't talking to but not her dad. There are a lot of people who go missing that swear their wife husband or family member would never run away and then years later they are found alive living another life. I'm NOT saying this is the case with Maura. Maybe I'm just too optimistic and like to think she's at least alive somewhere rather than dead at such a young age.

 

[sony12]

Yeah we need to remember that the Murray family might appear much closer now that the kids are all grown than they did back when Maura went missing when they were all still college age.

We also need to remember that their parents were divorced. It's pretty common for kids to attach themselves a little more to one particular parent over the other when a divorce happens.

 

[tigerteeth]

Today is the 16 year anniversary.


Also, There is a virtual light up the sky ceremony if anyone chooses to light a candle for Maura and share with Julie (Tim/Lance will be sharing ones they get, etc.)

 

[tigerteeth]

New WMUR (New Hampshire) article
New Hampshire unsolved case file: Where is Maura Murray?

 

[sony12]

You know were the areas around the locations that she called prior to leaving ever searched? If the area around the crash site has never turned up any leads the places that she was plausibly planning on going to should be the next step.