NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 2

[Peabody]

The aricle itself (which I had linked to) does not say anything about a bag yet you keep referring to one. Why? The article I quoted said "Sometime between Sunday and Monday morning, she packed up all her belongings in her dorm room, to include taking all her pictures off the walls, taking everything out of her bureaus, [and] put them all in boxes [and] left [them] on her bed," Scarinza told WCVB-TV

I am referring to a bag because I know that she had a large suitcase on loan from the boyfiend's mother that was filled with Christmas gifts (including clothing) when she left from OH and she did not have it with her when she vanished. Therefore, I am assuming that it was at least one of any number of possible unpacked bags in her room.

I continue to refer to bags because I know for certain that Maura had three bags in her car when she vanished: one bag packed with cold weather running gear, another packed with school books, lessons and the book "Without Peril", and a third bag with her clothing, personal items, both wall and auto cell phone chargers, jewelry, favorite stuffed animal from her boyfriend, and the photo of him which she kept in her dorm room. In addition, she had a small back pack which is missing with her.

Also, Maura had barely enough clothing with her to last a week which consisted only of jeans,sweatshirts, pajamas and underwear. The only additional shoes that she had were the running shoes she packed. These are a few of the reasons that I am convinced that she was not planning on running away, and that her plan was to do exactly as she had told her professors and employers: to be gone for a week.


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html

 

[docwho3]

I am referring to a bag because I know that she had a large suitcase on loan from the boyfiend's mother that was filled with Christmas gifts (including clothing) when she left from OH and she did not have it with her when she vanished. Therefore, I am assuming that it was at least one of any number of possible unpacked bags in her room. . .

That is worth checking into because if those bags were in fact not found in the room but instead things were actually in boxes one has to wonder what happened to the bags? And who knows what direction the answer to that question might take things.

. . .I continue to refer to bags because I know for certain that Maura had three bags in her car when she vanished: . . .

I was asking why you referred to bags as being left in her room. You had not referred to her having not unpacked the bags in her car. Thanks for the info anyway. It might prove helpful at some point.

. . .Also, Maura had barely enough clothing with her to last a week which consisted only of jeans,sweatshirts, pajamas and underwear. The only additional shoes that she had were the running shoes she packed. These are a few of the reasons that I am convinced that she was not planning on running away, and that her plan was to do exactly as she had told her professors and employers: to be gone for a week. . .

If she had intended to retrieve the other packed things from her room then she would not need to have taken much with her in that first trip. Without having the accident and thus calling attention to things much earlier than planned she would very likely have had uninterrupted time to do just that.
This is true whether or not she packed things that were already unpacked or whether she meant to pick up things that she had never unpacked. It (planned disappearance scenario) would be easier for people to see if they were packed after having been unpacked as that more clearly demonstrates intent but it is not necessary for the planned disappearance scenario to hold true. She could as easily have returned for the already packed things either way, except for that accident throwing off her timing.

 

[docwho3]

. . .No I don't know. But I also do not trust the word of Lt. Scarinza. His own Sgt. Bruno told the family that Lt. Scarinza "meant that the note was from the boyfriend, not from Maura." It took months to get this comment of explanation form the state police AFTER Lt. Scarinza repeated on TV and in newspapers countless times that Maura had left a note for the boyfriend. He also repeatedly used "the note" as support for his suicide theory.

Re: ". . .Scarinza repeated on TV and in newspapers countless times . . ."
I do not know if this happened in many separate interviews or if this was mostly a case of one interveiw being quoted in news print and also the one TV interview being replayed many times by news media but in either case I can understand how notes in a case file about a letter or letters concerning her boyfriend could be either misunderstood or even just mis spoken about without it being a major point in the actual investigation as conducted by the investigating officers. It was unfortunate to have happened and I am sure it seemed awful to the family especially when they probably felt the investigation was not moving fast enough or thorough enough to suit them even though that is often how family feel according to what I have read in so many of these cases.

Probably L.E. was looking into different possibilities over time and I can see where that may seem as being incompetent to family once they are already very angry at L.E. but I do not see it as being poor work on the part of L.E. but rather just part of ongoing investigation.

Honestly I know in these cases that often the family does not want to think of the possibility of suicide and they hate to think that a loved one would actually leave them by running away. It is natural for them to feel that way but I can't look at them "knowing she would never do that" in the same way I can look at a phyisical clue in the hand such as a blood stained knife in the car seat because so often in other cases family who felt the same way turned out to be wrong. So far in this case the evidence points to a voluntary leaving and not to any crime.

If a body turns up with evidence of foul play or someone confesses to a crime or they find a bloody knife in the car or the bus driver and neighbor are proven to be sex fiends or crazy murderers or if a serial killer is caught somewhere with evidence connecting him/her to Maura or if a body turns up having died of natural causes - then I will know that she did not leave on her own. But so far, due to the massive searches that were done and the fact that 2 people saw her that night at the accident scene which in effect pretty much keeps each of them honest, I have to go with the evidence which points to her having planned to disappear. At least that evidence has been reported in more than one news article and by different news sites. Saying she planned to go away for a few days due to burn out is still saying voluntary leaving. It just does not say for sure how long she planned to leave for. We obviously differ on that point.

The stranger abduction theory, while not impossible, fails to explain why she took the things she did and it has so little chance of having happened at just the right time to be at the scene of an unplanned accident and to avoid being seen by two witnesses that it asks one to lean towards the unlikely rather than to accept the most likely and reasonable interpretation of the facts as they are known at this time.

Note:There are a few more angles to this case that I am currently mulling over and if any of those bear fruit I will certainly pass them on.

 

[Peabody]

Re: ". . .Scarinza repeated on TV and in newspapers countless times . . ."
I do not know if this happened in many separate interviews or if this was mostly a case of one interveiw being quoted in news print and also the one TV interview being replayed many times by news media but in either case I can understand how notes in a case file about a letter or letters concerning her boyfriend could be either misunderstood or even just mis spoken about without it being a major point in the actual investigation as conducted by the investigating officers. It was unfortunate to have happened and I am sure it seemed awful to the family especially when they probably felt the investigation was not moving fast enough or thorough enough to suit them even though that is often how family feel according to what I have read in so many of these cases.

It was not the case of ONE interview being played multiple times.

Lt. Scarinza made it a point to refer to "a note/letter from Maura to her boyfriend" in numerous interviews and throughout a special aired out of Boston on Channel 5 on the show 'Chronicle' entitled 'Where is Maura Murray'.

Neither he nor his department originally responded to either of the boyfriend's and family's request to account/explain his constant references to the note "from Maura to the boyfriend".

The boyfriend was convinced that there was no note from Maura because of his going through her room to see if there was anything there that would give him a clue as to her missing (He reported to LE that he could discern no clue from the room).

It may be that Lt. Scarinza misunderstood initially, and that would not be anything that he should be faulted for.

However, it remains a fact that from the time of Lt. Scarinza's first report to the media of a "note from Maura to her boyfriend" that efforts were made on behalf of Lt. Rausch and Mr. Murray to have the information confirmed as true or corrected if in error.

Yet, it is difficult to respect or give Lt. Scarinza or his department credit when it took them approximately 2 months to return a call to Mr. Murray only to say that "Lt. Scarinza *meant* a letter from the boyfriend to Maura." Neither Lt. Scarinza nor his department **have ever issued a statement to the media correcting the misinformation** except for a mention in a press release with a meeting of the VT SP where it was simply noted that there was a note from the boyfriend to Maura indicating a troubled relationship. For the average reader, this could simply be interpreted as *another piece of correspondence* in addition to Lt. Scarinza's initial statements regarding "a note/letter from Maura to her boyfriend."

The boyfriend took issue with this information as well because as I mentioned earlier, ALL of his letters to Maura were together and on her bed. There was indeed a letter/letters referencing a troubled time in their relationship. But, that was LONG before she went missing, and before he had graduated from WP. So, it is my opinion that for reasons unknown the NH SP continued to place their spin on the investigation.

When I attempted to access the link to this Press Release, I received a message stating that the site is no longer available. I may have ithe information in my records, but currently do not have time to search for it.

However, If you go to http://www.dps.state.vt.us/vtsp/maitland.htm the Press Release that I am referencing was: The Vermont State Police/New Hampshire State Police Joint Press Release dated June 8 2004.

In the Press Release there was a summary of Brianna Maitland's case by the VT SP and a summary of Maura's case by the NH SP. A comparison of the outlines of the investigations was appalling. It was evident that VT LE had taken a much more serious, indepth and professional approach to Brianna's missing than the NH LE had taken in Maura's case. I wonder if this is the reason the links are no longer available?????

Does anyone have this Press Release at hand in their records?


Bring Maura Home !
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[docwho3]

. . .The boyfriend took issue with this information as well because as I mentioned earlier, ALL of his letters to Maura were together and on her bed. . .

. . .There was indeed a letter/letters referencing a troubled time in their relationship. But, that was LONG before she went missing, and before he had graduated from WP. So, it is my opinion that for reasons unknown the NH SP continued to place their spin on the investigation. . .

If indeed all his letters to her were together on her bed I can see where that might be viewed as significant by L.E. when investigating and when put together with at least one of those letters having indicated some problems in the relationship having existed even if before she went missing.
I am not sure that qualifies as L.E. somehow being sinister and putting their own dark spin on things. Given the other facts as known about her setting up false reasons to have left work & school and her having bought tylenol (edited to add:and booze) and having withdrawn most of the money from her bank account their "spin" seems reasonable to me.

I have so far avoided getting into any sort of real discussion concerning the work of L.E. in this case because I do not want to upset any of Maura's family (and I am sure that even these case discussions must be hard enough on them if they read them) but I think that one thing should have quietly been said to them by a good and close friend (and not in a forum) a long time back and that is:Even though L.E. are professionals they are still human and ranting at them in the press and publically jumping to always place everything they say and do in a sinister light certainly hurts their (the family's) relationship with L.E. and those are the very people that are needed to help solve the case. That holds true whether or not family is right or L.E. is right. It seems obvious to me just reading the news accounts that there were problems early on in the relationship.

Any problems with L.E. should be saved to be dealt with after the investigation is done. I do not know if it is possible to repair that relationship after all that has gone on but I think it might be possible.

(looks at watch) Oops, I am running out of time. Have to take my wife to the eye doctor. Don't have time to discuss the L.E. right now & it doesn't help solve the case anyway.

Got to go. Smiles to all.

 

[Peabody]

I have so far avoided getting into any sort of real discussion concerning the

work of L.E. in this case because I do not want to upset any of Maura's family (and I am sure that even these case discussions must be hard enough on them if they read them) but I think that one thing should have quietly been said to them by a good and close friend (and not in a forum) a long time back and that is:Even though L.E. are professionals they are still human and ranting at them in the press and publically jumping to always place everything they say and do in a sinister light certainly hurts their (the family's) relationship with L.E. and those are the very people that are needed to help solve the case. That holds true whether or not family is right or L.E. is right. It seems obvious to me just reading the news accounts that there were problems early on in the relationship.

Any problems with L.E. should be saved to be dealt with after the investigation is done. I do not know if it is possible to repair that relationship after all that has gone on but I think it might be possible.

Color added by Peabody for emphasis

Dear Doc,

One advantage that I have over most websleuthers is personal contact with many, many parties connected with Maura: family and friends. I am not related to Maura and although I am very connected to her case honestly believe that I am objective about it. I do confess to being emotionally attached to it.

There is no doubt that your assessment "ranting at them (LE) in the press and publically jumping to always place everything they say and do in a sinister light certainly hurts their (the family's) relationship with L.E." is true and from my understanding, no-one would agree with you more than Fred Murray who has been the most outspoken and critical of LE.

However, Doc, consider for a moment that your lovely wife is missing; that there is a certain situation that would not even have you suspecting that she is missing (Maura was at college and Dad did not talk to her daily - in fact he had just left her the day before she went missing). When the police discover your wife is missing and they know for a certainty that it is her, not you driving your car; they wait 24 hours to notify you; they wait at least 36 ours to do any type of search for her; they *immediately* tell you upon your arrival (you are 5 hours away) that she was suicidal because she had alcohol, aspirin and tylenol pm in her car (while I do not take alcohol with me on any trip, I always have aspirin and some sort of sleep aide, as well as numerous other over-the-counter medicines; I believe this is typical of most women - their purses usually have an assortment of pills EVEN when they are not traveling - even combined with the alcohol, I can find no young woman who believes this is proof of suicidal tendencies). Because they find no "evidence" of a struggle, they tell you she left on her own and that because she is 21 she has the "right to go missing". End of investigation on Wednesday, February 11. (Until the Murray's refused to let the investigation end. And they did so initially in a very tactful manner through the media. As a result of the media, another search was done on Thurs., Feburary 19 along with the subsequent searches. I agree with the family that had they not kept the pressure on the final search for Maura would have been 2/11.)

Again, no one disputes Maura's right to voluntarily go missing. But is that the way you would want your wife's missing to be dismissed? Would you go quietly into the night when you learn that as promised the LE never even checked the bus station? It is so easy for any of us to be critical of others. But, we will never know how we might react in the same circumstances.

I know for certainty that Fred Murray insisted for a consideral period of time that EVERYONE in the family, those involved in the search and those who spoke to the media to report NH LE as being great guys with insufficient resources. (I haven't the time to look up the new articles, but if you do, I would suggest at least the Caledonian Record to confirm this). Privately, he like all of the people involved, were struggling that they could get no help from NH LE. And he eventually vented his anger and frustration with the only people that could help and would not - the LE. Perhaps not wise, but in my opinion, most understandable and perhaps under his emotional duress, unavoidable.

Should not LE take into consideration the emotional/mental state of mind of the citizens they need to help? Do they not have any responsibility to work in a professional manner while understanding the human emotion and fear involved in having a daughter literally vanish from the face of the earth?

Now as to your statement, "Any problems with L.E. should be saved to be dealt with after the investigation is done." That was the entire problem: NH LE was not doing an investigation and would not accept help from other agencies, most notably the FBI. (I am aware of news articles stating the NH invited the FBI. However, to appease Mr. Murray, they asked them only to interrogate friends at UMass and in Maura's hometown. They were never asked to be involved in the investigation at NH. I could give you a list of assistance that they were denied, including the use of a special MA SP computer case data base)

As to mending the relationship, everyone should recognize that it takes both sides to accomplish any reconcilation.

Hopefully, NH LE is very busy behind the scenes working on Maura's case. The family has not been contacted by LE for more months than I can recoundt. It would seem to me that they could legally solve the case IF she is a runaway. I cannot imagine any law being broken if they announced that Maura had been located, alive and well, but did not want her location revealed. What a feather in their cap and such vindication in the case.

I agree with you that there are 3 possible basic explanations to Maura's case:

1. She succumbed to the elements.

2. She was harmed by someone.

3. She voluntarily ran away.

I pray each day that # 3 is the correct explanation, but I just cannot buy that with the motivation and fortitude she had already displayed in her young life combined by all accounts of her strong love for her family that she would choose to run away. (I will leave the boyfriend out of it, but to me, one strong consideration that is difficult to reconcile is that she got fed up with not only her family, but also her boyfriend or vice-a-versa. With them almost a continent apart, it would have been most easy for her to turn her back on one without turning her back on both. Leaving her boyfriend would be easy; he is in the army and gets very little leave to come calling. All she had to do was throw away his letters, not answer his emails or his phone calls. To leave her family, all she had to do was move in with the boyfriend and arrange to start her pre-arranged job in OK sooner than summer. Turning her back on her family or perhaps just those who she had "had it with" would be easy. Each of these scenarios would be much simpler and easier than running away. Sadly, to me, this leaves me to believe that #1 or #2 are more likely explanations of Maura's missing)


(I will be unable to repond to posts for several days)



Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html

 

[Peabody]

Originally Posted by Peabody
At present, the "Forum" portion of Maura's website is currently down for maintenance. Helena Murray has asked that I post this information for you. The Forum will be back as soon as possible and the family asks your pardon for any inconvenince.



Bring Maura Home!
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[url="http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html"]www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html

[/url]



The Forum on Maura's site is back
<modsnip - no longer a working website>

 

[docwho3]

. . .There is no doubt that your assessment "ranting at them (LE) in the press and publically jumping to always place everything they say and do in a sinister light certainly hurts their (the family's) relationship with L.E." is true and from my understanding, no-one would agree with you more than Fred Murray who has been the most outspoken and critical of LE.. .

To continue this discussion concerning the family and L.E. would require me to post things that might be upsetting to the family and their friends and I don't see anything helpful coming from that at this time. I have made a point about it and you have responded. I think I will let it go at that for now.

As to the three possibilities you mentioned:
As I have said in previous posts, I don't think it was necessarily that Maura was getting away from those she had "had it" with and I don't think that it has to be that family is to blame either. I think there was an alternate possibilty, that Maura felt a compulsion that she had no real control over at that time. It is my hope that (if she is still alive at that time) sometime in the future she will become able to again reach out to the family.

 

[LillyRush]

docwho, Thank you for the PM about the book.

The thing with the book is that it could have an all or nothing connection to what was going on with her. I do wonder - why? - if the book was that important to her on that trip she would have left it behind in the car. So, either, she was too intoxicated to even think about what to take...Or, it really didn't have all that much significance to her, just a book brought along to read during down time..Or, she thought she was only going to walk away for a little while and would be right back..?

I still don't understand where she would have thought she was going to go by walking away in the night like that (assuming she did) even if it was just due to concern over getting caught as DUI. That is the whole reason why the bus driver came under suspicion for me in the beginning of all this. Or, really, anyone who might have seen her if she did in fact start walking down the street. There was always that guy who claimed he didn't realize until several months later that a girl he saw walking that night might have been Maura.

I still wonder also if it wasn't an accident, similar to what happened with Lynn Moran. Are there mountain drop-offs right around the area where she could have accidentally fallen without seeing the drop, especially while under the influence?

 

[CyberLaw]

From the very start the "family" has been very vocal in their views which are contrary to LE. LE has investigative resources and "tips" that the family will not be privvy to.

The situation between LE and the "family" has been strained from the start. Little wonder LE is not forthcoming with the "family".

Who knows how the family will spin this information.

You see if my adult child suddenly went missing, I would Thank God everyday if LE told me that they feel my adult child ran away and there is no evidence of harming coming to my child.

This family is exactly the oppostite. They choose to believe that Maura is dead rather then believe that Maura ran away from them.

I guess realtiy is hard to accept............

 

[docwho3]

. . .The thing with the book is that it could have an all or nothing connection to what was going on with her. . .

Not sure why you think that. I think she thought that intro part to the marked chapter would be a nice touch to her goodbye scene and it was something from her dad so it would mean doubly more that way when used in the scene but when she had the accident I think she grabbed up the back pack and headed down the road a little ways to meet up with he helper following behind. She was likely rattled and if she had any of that booze to drink she may have been a little befuddled. She had already been seen by witnesses and knew they would probably call it in to the police. I think she felt all she had time to do was to grab up one thing and jog off towards the oncoming helper. She never got to stage the goodbye scene or to return for the stuff in her dorm. I suppose I could theorize that she had realized that leaving the book in the car with its bookmark card and picture of her brother in that area on that road was almost as good as staging her goodbye scene . . . but I don't see any evidence to indicate that it was a conscious decision that night so I have not theorized about that.

I take it you have read the work up I posted starting on post 121?

If so then I don't know how else to say it at this time. I did say in those posts that with her track skills it is possible she might have wandered off a very long ways from the road and maybe farther than was searched but there were many searches and even her own father searched. He should be well aware of her physical abilities in the wilderness as they had hiked and climbed together before. So I can't very well say he doesn't know how far he should have searched.

There are some things I can't in my own mind rule out yet and I posted about those in the workup. The solution is not complete but so far the evidence seems to indicate a willful adult runaway to me. Whether she made it freedom or was doublecrossed is something else I can't yet say but with no blood, no body, and no captured killer being connected to her in any way I have to go with the odds being in favor of her being alive and on her own.

 

[Peabody]

Not sure why you think that. I think she thought that intro part to the marked chapter would be a nice touch to her goodbye scene and it was something from her dad so it would mean doubly more that way when used in the scene but when she had the accident I think she grabbed up the back pack and headed down the road a little ways to meet up with he helper following behind. She was likely rattled and if she had any of that booze to drink she may have been a little befuddled. She had already been seen by witnesses and knew they would probably call it in to the police. I think she felt all she had time to do was to grab up one thing and jog off towards the oncoming helper. She never got to stage the goodbye scene or to return for the stuff in her dorm. I suppose I could theorize that she had realized that leaving the book in the car with its bookmark card and picture of her brother in that area on that road was almost as good as staging her goodbye scene . . . but I don't see any evidence to indicate that it was a conscious decision that night so I have not theorized about that.

The book was not left laying in the car. It was packed in one of the bags with her personal belongings. Maura routinely used photographs as bookmarks. The photo was of her brother Kurtis in his baseball uniform and was several yrs old.

She also *left* behind in the car her favorite photo of her boyfriend, the stuffed animal that he had given her yrs earlier with which she always slept, and numerous other items which were known to be very special and of sentimental value to her, as well as very valuable jewelry.

None of us can say what Maura's intentions were. But, even the police do not think nor ever implied that the accident might have been staged.

One other interesting fact is that a great number of local citizens told the family from the beginning that they could not accept the notion that Maura was possibly intoxicated. They are of the strong opinion that it is not humanly possible to reach the point where Maura had her accident (5-6 miles east of Route 302) while driving intoxicated without having an accident much sooner that where her car spun on the ice. Maura was driving in the pitch dark with snow falling copmbined with fog and mist in the atmosphere from the river/ice on a very snakey, curvey and unfamiliar road. To the best of anyone's knowledge, although Maura was VERY familiar with the Bartlett NH area, she had never traveled there from Amherst which took her up the VT interstate parallel to the CT River, then east on 302 to 112 where she had her accident. Had she not had the accident and continued on 112, she would have arrived in Bartlett NH, her familar spot to stay on camping, hiking trips as well as the locaton of the condo in which she attempted to make arrangements to stay. Maura had always traveled from eastern MA to Bartlett which took her on a completely different route.

I would also add that even some of the media mentioned the difficulty they had traveling route 112 while they were assisting us. The opinion that Maura would never have succeeded in traveling that 5-6 miles while intoxicated was their opinion as well.


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html

 

[Peabody]

I still wonder also if it wasn't an accident, similar to what happened with Lynn Moran. Are there mountain drop-offs right around the area where she could have accidentally fallen without seeing the drop, especially while under the influence?

The area is very rugged with rivers, ravines and mountains.

I would think anything is possible.

However, the Murrays and the Rausches followed all footprints in the area for the first two weeks and then different Murray family members stayed on for weeks after searching. I don't think one can absolutely rule out that Maura did not wander off, especially if she was confused. Mr. Murray still searches.

Unless she was disoriented, I cannot fanthom that EVEN if she was alluding the police that she would have left the road and traveled into the woods. As dark as the area is, she would have no need to do much more than duck behind a snow bank to prevent from being seen.

IF she headed east on foot, for whatever reason, she would have only gone approx a mile at which time she would have entered 15-16 miles of the National Forest with no homes.........this is the location of the alledged sighting by the construction worker and is the reason that I find it so perplexing: what person would drive by in the wilderness, knowing that someone may be alone in 12 degree, snowy weather??? If she headed west, she would have met the police as they arrived on the scene.

There is a poster (Bob'sdad I believe) on Maura's website that did an experiment with light/dark. It is amazing how little visability there was that night/location. I see this as a great hindrance as well as assistance to Maura if she was fleeing: she would have difficulty in seeing, but she would have almost perfect cover from being seen.

Bring Maura Home!
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[LillyRush]

docwho, No, I'm sorry I did not read your work-up of the situation on the previous page. I haven't read all the recent thread pages yet. I was just responding about your PM because I hadn't replied yet. I will try to catch up on the recent posts as soon as I can.

cyberlaw, deep down inside, you love me - i know it! lol :blowkiss:

peabody, thanks for the additional info tonight.

 

[docwho3]

The book was not left laying in the car. It was packed in one of the bags with her personal belongings. Maura routinely used photographs as bookmarks. The photo was of her brother Kurtis in his baseball uniform and was several yrs old. . .

That's fine as I have said before it was to be used at the destination where a staged scene was to take place and as I said in previous post I did not theorize the book was deliberately used to stage a scene at the accident at the last minute since there was no evidence of that being the case. I had merely pointed out that her knowing those items would be found there might have crossed her mind as being enough in light of her limitations due to having the unplanned accident and I am not even certain she thought of that much. I think she was rattled by the unexpected event, grabbed her back pack & left, most likely to be picked up by her helper. I am not saying alot about the johnny-come-lately witness that remembered spotting her after it had been in the papers. Lots of people "remember" things after reading them in the paper. I do not know if he is credible or not but in any case it was dark so his position might have been harder to judge than in daylight and perhaps unsure at that time of night. And you yourself have supplied one hurdle to his story being accepted as fact in that he left her to herself on such a night in such conditions. That in itself raises red flags to my mind to the story having happened at all. But evenif he saw her it does not preclude her being picked up by her helper and that is another reason I am not bothering with him too much at this time.

. . .She also *left* behind in the car her favorite photo of her boyfriend, the stuffed animal that he had given her yrs earlier with which she always slept, and numerous other items which were known to be very special and of sentimental value to her, as well as very valuable jewelry. . .

I will later post about what she took or what she left.

What is interesting is to ask what was in that backpack? What could have been in that that she would grab it up? Since you may know whats missing why not share what you believe she actually took? (More on that sharing question in a moment.)

. . .None of us can say what Maura's intentions were. But, even the police do not think nor ever implied that the accident might have been staged. . .

Neither have I said that as I previously stated. I could have theorized along those lines but did not due to lack of evidence to indicate that.

. . .One other interesting fact is that a great number of local citizens told the family from the beginning that they could not accept the notion that Maura was possibly intoxicated. They are of the strong opinion that it is not humanly possible to reach the point where Maura had her accident (5-6 miles east of Route 302) while driving intoxicated without having an accident much sooner that where her car spun on the ice. . .

I care nothing for their opinions since the facts are that aclohol was involved in some way and the evidence has shown that. I don't care if she was intoxicated or not. It is a possibility but is not crucial to my understanding of what I think most likely took place. She had an unplanned accident. That alone usually shakes a person up and she allegedly hit the windhield hard enough to spider it and that too can shake one up and leave one in less than their usual clear, quick thinking state. She was leaving her old life behind secretly and wished to not have that fact known until she was ready for it to be revealed and that accident was the one thing she had not totally planned on. It drew attention to her too fast for her to do much besides run and that is enough to know. I am not being uncaring but people opining about what amounts to a non essential factor in the case at this point is something I feel ok with passing by for now.

. . .Maura was driving in the pitch dark with snow falling combined with fog and mist in the atmosphere from the river/ice on a very snakey, curvey and unfamiliar road. . .

First time as far as I remember hearing of this bit about fog that night but, again, it is not essential to the case. (And it has been awhile since I went back over all the old news reports so maybe I just don't remember having read it even if I did.)

One more note about the jewelry, there might be many reasons for not taking it with her but I think this might be another casualty of the unplanned accident. Where exactly in all that stuff in the car was the jewelry found?

(Edited to remove a section in the interest of keeping the peace.)

More on that question I mentioned before:Why not share all of what you know and are allowed to release, in a multi post if necessary, and let people work with all the allowable facts instead of this dribbling things out little by little? Sure keep back one or two things as needed to weed out false confessions by people but then share the rest. Instead of doing a work up of a theory as I did, do a complete workup of what facts are known such as what was taken and what left behind and how those things were postitioned, as in or on a car seat or in a box buried somewhere in the car or back in her room in a box or a bag etc. If Maura paid for tylenol, how was it paid? by cash or credit card? Did she leave all of the credit cards behind or take some but just fail to use them?

Maybe color controversial facts in orange and known lies such as Maura's death-in-the-family excuse as red along with any other verifiable lies (as opposed to possible misstatements which might be orange)told by any other person in the case. No opinions but just the facts as known both good and bad.

It just seems a waste to have people running all over the web like a silly easter egg hunt looking at news reports to understand the entire story(even if some of those news reports are linked from the Maura Murray website) when they could read one good workup and then use the links as verification for the facts which are mentioned in news reports. You could be a big help in that way (beyond what you already do.)

 

[docwho3]

About the things packed in the car:
There seem to have been two types of things taken in the car.
One type was made up of things needed to stage the goodbye scene and the other type was made up of things either needed short term or things that she would want with her even if someone tumbled to her being gone sooner than she had planned. Therefore she had the stuffed animal, the jewelry and a few clothes etc.

I think she had planned on almost every possibiity including having someone follow her on the same route in case that car broke downbut she just didn't plan on having an accident and being seen right away by at least two people, and at least one of which stopped and spoke to her and offered to call police for her.

That shook her up and radically changed things from a near picture perfect plan to a scramble to get away before her helper could be seen and described. There was simply no time to unpack the car and too much risk of being seen and either caught at the scene or soon after. She knew a school bus driver would likely try to call it in. Its after dark and I don't know if the dome light worked but she managed to grab at least one item, the back pack, and scoot.

 

[docwho3]

I don't know how far she went before being picked up by her helper as that would depend on how long behind her in time that person had followed. I think the plan was that if the helper did not see Maura's car stopped and broken down at the side of the road then they would meet up at the preplanned staging place for the goodbye scene. The helper would not need to follow along right behind Maura but just take the same route a little while back and then meet and transport Maura from the staging place (where her old car was to be left) probably to another car. Then I think the plan was to return to pick up Maura's stuff from the dorm room if no one had yet tumbled to her being gone. The accident changed things. All that stuff is pretty much mentioned in the workup posted starting with post 121.

Who was that helper? One of her known friends who has not taken a lie detector test and has not felt obligated to violate her friends confidence since no law was being broken for Maura to choose to disappear? Or had she met someone in her security job that promised to get her a new identity fast . . .for a price . . maybe those jewels? And if those jewels were left behind and no payment was to be forthcoming would helper have decided to take payment in his own way?

Or had she asked the boyfriend or a relative of one of her acquaintances to help out? Or did she get some student to help that would be leaving to go out of the country soon? Maura knew who would have access to her cell phone records so I doubt she would have used that in hooking up with her helper unless the number called would be thought to be part of her normal routine. But there are always land lines and payphones etc. or borrowing someone elses cell or buying a second cell of her own.

I still think there is a helper and that he (I think it might be a he but it doesn't have to be) knows where he took Maura. I don't know where the story would go from that point as it depends on what helper tells and what helper did.

If Maura is still alive and relatively well I think it would be very important to know just how best to approach her or she might rabbit again or even suicide.

 

[LButler]

docwho3 ... I find your posts very thought-provoking. It seems I hear new info on this every time I read here or on her website and it's tough keeping everything straight. Here's some of my thoughts:

It does seem as though the packing up of her dorm room, the things she took with her ..... were symbolic of something - leaving her old life behind and taking a new road - I'm not sure. But, I don't feel that Maura was even thinking about suicide.

However, the BD and construction guy have really cast themselves in GUILT in my opinion.

I think the answer to this mystery is some strange mixture of the theory of her running away, the "accident" and her subsequent contact with BD and CS. This story just seems to get stranger every time I come back to it.

 

[Masterj]

As I mentioned in a previous post, I am very into photography, and have taken many pictures along RT 112. I have many that I would like to link to, just so people can understand the area full of streams, mountains and woods. I'll try to scan them in this weekend and post a link to them.

As I've said before - I was a bit creeped out and nervous driving on this road during broad daylight. I can't IMAGINE driving at night or even a little tipsy. I was always warned not to drive that route at night during the winter especially, due to the conditions.

 

[docwho3]

docwho3 ... I find your posts very thought-provoking. It seems I hear new info on this every time I read here or on her website and it's tough keeping everything straight. Here's some of my thoughts:

It does seem as though the packing up of her dorm room, the things she took with her ..... were symbolic of something - leaving her old life behind and taking a new road - I'm not sure. But, I don't feel that Maura was even thinking about suicide.

However, the BD and construction guy have really cast themselves in GUILT in my opinion.

I think the answer to this mystery is some strange mixture of the theory of her running away, the "accident" and her subsequent contact with BD and CS. This story just seems to get stranger every time I come back to it.

Well, due to the other witness being there at the time I tend to overlook the busdriver as a potential killer for the time being. It would have been pretty risky for him knowing that the other neighbor was likely watching and that neighbor had actually called in the accident, but if Peabody is correct in his assertion that "Maura was driving in the pitch dark with snow falling copmbined with fog and mist in the atmosphere from the river/ice on a very snakey, curvey and unfamiliar" then it makes one wonder how the construction person was able to drive by and see Maura in the snow and fog from any distance at all and still describe her well enough to police days later to convince them it was a legitimate sighting. As you know when driving in fog objects and even people seem to suddenly appear out of nowhere as you get close enough to see them through the fog and if you are in a car at night then you are very quickly past them and they are out of sight behind you where headlights are not showing. That means he had to have seen her close to the car (as opposed to far away) and then only for a few seconds at most (if his story is true) and yet still have been able to accurately describe her later.

This leads me to think that either Peabody was wrong about conditions that night or the construction man lied about driving by and not stopping or that the construction man never saw her at all. The fact that he inserted himself into the case as a witness also casts doubt on his being involved but it is not totally unheard of for a killer to insert himself into a case but it is more often that people are just attention seekers (as opposed to being killers.)

As I said I don't think he had anything to do with her disappearance but I present this thought in case it helps.