NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 3

[petra]

i see what you are saying about countering LE statements. i did not personally take this into consideration mainly because i basically discount what LE says in the beginning..

by step backwards...guess that phrasing is incorrect.

she would need to do at least additional two yrs in nursing program to get BA.











































l

 

[PonderingThings]

Thanks for the hair down pic - its a good one because its "natural". There is also a formal photo of her, with her hair down, on her site... it shows her beauty but not her "everyday" appearance.

Again, thanks!

 

[docwho3]

. . .
At 3:40 p.m. that afternoon, Maura Murray withdrew $280 from an ATM and later made a stop at a local liquor store in Amherst, where she was attending the University of Massachusetts. Surveillance cameras recorded her movements at both locations and she appeared to be alone. . .

http://huffcrimeblog.com/?p=223

I am still looking for the quote about the tylenol. It has been months since I read it and not all the online news reports are still there. It seems it was a quote of one of the female family members who said she knew why the police thought maura was suicidal and that it was becaise of the tylenol she bought.

When and if I find it again I will post a link to it. However, the existence of the tylenol is not in question wherever she bought it. She took it with her and that much is known and when considered with the other things known as I said in previous post it could make one concerned about Maura's state of mind.

 

[petra]

WOW---just saw that most of my post went POOFFFF!!!

Guess just as well.

 

[docwho3]

And I would like to take a moment to remind those nonmoderators who have been threatening all with banning: It is not family bashing solely because it is a post that you yourself as a nonmoderator don't like. A moderator has to make that determination.

Compared to the comments I read on the Christine Rudy thread what minor thing KatherinQ alluded to in her post was in no way family bashing in my opinion. And quite honestly this "bashing warning" stuff seems to be getting out of hand. Maybe one of us other posters should drop a line to the moderator and ask if that banning threat can be used as a silencing tactic by those nonmoderators who just dont happen to like a post.

Since coming to this thread I have read peabody's posts and he speaks for the family although I am not certain to what extent and now we have Armywife210 and she speaks for the family at their request, so she tells us. And Murray dwyer has spoken with such authority in responses in the past that I finally asked if Murraydwyer was speaking for the family officially also. (And was told no, if I remember correctly and was asked what would it matter - something like that.) And gate trekker says gatetrekker "draws the line at . . ." as if he/she speaks for the family although not making that claim outright, but still in effect,threatening banning.

I have seen no one in here post anything like calling the family scumbags or any such things as I saw people routinely get by with in other threads. (Go read the Christine rudy threads.) No one is calling the murray family all drunks or liars and so far no one has said they murdered anyone. No one appears to me to be dragging the family through the mud and, given the posts I have read, only someone who was being ultra picky would say so.

What is it with you nonmoderator people needing to control this forum? Are you that afraid L.E. will stop searching for Maura just because of something one of us might post on this tiny website or are you just needing the ego trip of threatening everyone so you can pontificate?

Even if you win this weird battle that you seem to be waging, you still lose in the end. The truth can't be stopped forever. Eventually we will all know what did or did not happen to Maura. Whether she was a victem of foul play or is still alive and a runaway will not change one bit just because you run spin control on all the posts here.

 

[docwho3]

WOW---just saw that most of my post went POOFFFF!!!

Guess just as well.

That seems to happen to people sometimes. Not sure what causes it.

 

[docwho3]

thanks doc...i had read that. but was wondering about WP? How long did she attend- 6 months, 1 1/2 yrs?? before starting UMass in Jan 2002

You might have to ask peabody for that info or possibly armywife for that info.

 

[murraydwyer]

WOW---just saw that most of my post went POOFFFF!!!​

Glad to here it is not just me that it happens to...wondered about all the blank spaces.

Sorry if I came off as defensive...but last night I was researching what information the police had actually released and I guess I was still in that frame of mind....along those lines there is an interesting report released by the VTSP. It was comments made at a joint press conference by NH and VT State police about Maura's case and Brianna Maitland's. It has been removed from the VTSP website (I can't find it any longer at any rate), but is on Maura's website at this page VTSP/NHSP joint press conference June 8, 2004 - edited July 2004
At one point I took the two different statements and put them side by side...no comparison as to the investigation...perhaps it was just details not included...who knows. Keep in mind, that Maura and Brianna appear to have disappeared under similar circumstances (whether or not there is a connection) just over a month apart. To that point, drugs were being played up in Brianna's case...later, one of the news papers actually printed something of a retraction. As you read the 'synopsis' on Maura's case carefully notice the statements made about Maura. Don't think there was any mention of the fact that Maura had made the Dean's list the prior semester. Didn't see mention of the fact that she had a full load of classes in addition to having started nursing clinicals, or worked two part time jobs. Honestly, I don't even know why they mentioned the amount of damage to the car in Maura's prior accident...they didn't mention that she was not cited at that accident. Did they perhaps also eat dinner at the "local brew pub"...we don't know because it doesn't say???

She went on the Internet and looked up directions and overnight accommodations in the Bartlett, NH area as well as Burlington, VT area.

Notice the word overnight...I don't recall having seen that anywhere else and since the police have the computer I can't verify that statement...but I know that even when I have inquired about reservations, I have to put in the nights that I want to stay. Now there are some here who theorize that Maura ran away...trust me I have never discounted the possibility...we just don't know, but if you were running away while you might leave false clues on your computer...why would you also call a number presumably to find out about availability...the number was a Massachusetts exchange which Maura would have known. Somebody mentioned the possibility that they had in the past asked others to follow them because of car trouble........would you really ask a friend to follow you for 2 1/2 to three hours??? While there is nothing in any media, nor does the family know of anybody Maura knew in NH...there is always a possibility. My son, because of the sport he is involved with, knows people all over the country and UMass attacts a lot of out of state students...even students from out of the country, but it would seem that anybody she knew through track or school would also have been in school at that point, not in NH. We were informed at a website for Maura that UMass had a cabin in NH...it was checked.

If any of you have 'information' as alluded to...please send it to Maura's email address [email protected] or if you prefer to the P.O. Box at
Mauramurray.com, P.O. Box 466, Humarock, MA 02047
I can assure you that all information has been given to the detectives. Whether Maura choose to run away as some of you on this website insist or whether Maura has met with an unfortunate fate...her family needs to know. If she ran away and you have evidence of it and don't want the family to know then you could contact the New Hampshire State Police...I am quite certain that they will not tell the family...but will be relieved to have the case closed and the Murrays back in MA. Not only that, but it will relieve the financial and emotional burden for those going to NH all the time to try to find any shred of information to help find out what happened to Maura.

DocWho, I don't know what you read about the alcohol and tylenol...I do know that the tylenol bottle was not new...I've seen it and I seriously doubt that she was even able to buy both in the same store...in MA unlike many other states, there are few places where you can buy alcohol and tylenol in the same store. Something I have been guilty of at times is reading to fast and misreading something...I have learned to be careful and have a word document up with what I am responding to...often, we see what our thinking predisposes us to see...not what was actually there. I've also learned that when I reread articles, I see information I missed before...frequently it is because information takes on new meaning when you learn other information at a later date. In fact, the statement made at the joint press conference above, never penetrated until I just looked it up to find the link.......

 

[Peabody]

You might have to ask peabody for that info or possibly armywife for that info.

Docwho,

I was never asked by the family to speak for them or for Maura.

Because I know family members and friends of Maura who were hurting over much of what was being said here which was theory, not fact, I CHOSE to speak for Maura and her family. I can honestly say that to my knowledge the Murrays and Rausches HAVE NEVER been upset about any of the facts regarding Maura's missing that have been reported or posted. It is the theories and the misinformation that is upsetting to them because it prevents an accurate investigation and misleads the public.

The factual evidence on this chat board supporting the need for the Murrays to have someone "speak for them" was contained in the thread that was accidentally deleted when the moderator attempted to "merge the thread" - to which murraydwyer referred. I am sure that the 'oldtimers' here recall how Maura as well as Fred Murray were constandly being defamed. In fact, the mudslingging and victim and family bashing posted (almost entirely by ONE poster) on Maura's thread played a huge part in rules being changed here for ALL THREADS at Websleuths and the creation of the different threads: Missing Persons Info and Support; Located Info and Support; Missing but Not Forgotten; and this thread Missing/Located Forum Discussion.

I have a few questions about this case - can anyone answer?

1. All activity, since February 9, 2004 stopped on Maura's bank account, cell phone, etc.. So this is a confirmed date/time of disappearance - its not just the date the witness said they saw Maura and called police... right?

2. Was Maura's hair frosted or did it have blonde streaks?

3. Did Maura bite her nails or keep them very short?

4. Were Maura's ears pierced?

Thanks

1. There has been no activity on Maura's debit card, credit cards, cell phone, etc since 02/09/04 - this is the date that she was witnessed being in and out of car along Route 112 in Haverhill NH

2. No one has any knowledge of her artifically streaking her hair. Her hair would lighten some in the summer; and it had red highlights (sister Kathleen actually has red hair) which if viewed in bright sunlight was most visible.

3. Maura bit her fingernails. A habit that she was always trying to break.

4. Maura had pierced ears. She did not always wear earrings. All of her jewelry - not a great deal as she was not into lots of material things - was found in her abandoned car. According to my source, Maura was wearing the diamond stud earrings as well as the diamond necklece, gifts from her fiance, in this photo taken the Christmas before she went missing at this link: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/MauraMurray/MauraNana.jpg

 

[docwho3]

. . .Notice the word overnight...I don't recall having seen that anywhere else and since the police have the computer I can't verify that statement...but I know that even when I have inquired about reservations, I have to put in the nights that I want to stay. Now there are some here who theorize that Maura ran away...trust me I have never discounted the possibility...we just don't know, but if you were running away while you might leave false clues on your computer...why would you also call a number presumably to find out about availability...the number was a Massachusetts exchange which Maura would have known. . .

Well, you ask a valid question. Currently my thought about the "overnight" part of it is thats all that was really needed if she was only using the room to stage a scene for others to find once she was away and had phoned in a tip. If her real destination was somewhere else that had already been set up in advance she only needed a one night room sort of thing.

. . .Somebody mentioned the possibility that they had in the past asked others to follow them because of car trouble........would you really ask a friend to follow you for 2 1/2 to three hours??? . . .

You are right to ask the question. Yes I would ask if I felt I really needed the help and if I knew the trip in that car was to be a one way trip. But I would certainly not do it routinely. In the past when I had someone follow me it was at times such as taking the car to be repaired and I was not sure it would make it all they way, or like when I had it jump started due to a dead battery and wanted to be sure I made it home alright. To go on a trip of 2 1/2 hours would seem to me to be very much a once-per-lifetime request of someone and they would likely require to be reimbursed in some way, for their gas at the very least. Young men of College age and up will often go to great lengths to help a young lady in distress of some kind. I suppose you might look for someone who had reason to be going the way you wanted to go anyway . . .maybe someone going to mardigras or to visit family of their own etc.

. . .DocWho, I don't know what you read about the alcohol and tylenol...I do know that the tylenol bottle was not new...I've seen it and I seriously doubt that she was even able to buy both in the same store...

You may be right about the bottle not being new. I see no reason to argue the point at this time, especially since I don't remember exactly where I saw those words. I am human and it is possible I made a mistake. But the bottle exists and it was taken with her and I suppose L.E. had cause to be concerned, all things considered. Even with that having been said I make note that in my posted theory I said I did not believe that she actually meant to really suicide but that she possibly meant to show that she could have done so. I figure a nursing student would normally know how bad a choice that particular method would be to choose and would choose anything but that method if they really intended to suicide.

I did find this quote on the murray website:

. . .I questioned them regarding their theory: it was based on us not knowing that she was leaving school; that she had stated in her emails to profs and employer of "a death in the family"; the alcohol she purchased and the fact that she had aspirin and tylenol pm in her bag. . .

http://www.mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1763&sid=99eb206265f4eeae087894ae0be52e35
Note: I add that if you read the entire post on the website you will see that the poster (Sharon) is disputing the L.E. theory of Maura having been suicidal.

She was carrying aspirin and tylenol in her bag according to the poster.
I hope this helps to clear things up.

 

[murraydwyer]

This is becoming more like a chat than a forum, but here goes:

But the bottle exists and it was taken with her and I suppose L.E. had cause to be concerned, all things considered. Even with that having been said I make note that in my posted theory I said I did not believe that she actually meant to really suicide but that she possibly meant to show that she could have done so. I figure a nursing student would normally know how bad a choice that particular method would be to choose and would choose anything but that method if they really intended to suicide.

The bottle does exist and I would agree that a nursing student would know how bad a choice that particular method would be and you are also very correct that L.E. should have been concerned....perhaps more concerned and not waited from Monday night until Wednesday to bring in one dog (from what I have been told by someone who saw the dog on TV it was not a bloodhound) when in fact there was a search and rescue organization not far from the crash site.

 

[PonderingThings]

Thank you Peabody for all the answers!

 

[docwho3]

http://www.nampn.doenetwork.us/cases/murray_maura.html
http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200401157S

 

[crypto6]

perhaps more concerned and not waited from Monday night until Wednesday to bring in one dog (from what I have been told by someone who saw the dog on TV it was not a bloodhound) when in fact there was a search and rescue organization not far from the crash site.

Herein is my quandary: Why wouldn't LE put on a full SAR for a young girl on foot probably exposed to lethal low temperatures with nightfall coming?? Either they are incompetent and uncaring beyond belief, or had some strong indication that she was not wandering in the woods or down a snowy road. If they somehow found she was picked up and was safe but not wanting to be located, why not say so? If LE immediately ascertained this as a criminal investigation (she was transported away in a criminal act) and local SAR was not warranted, they appear more inept, as real activity and investigation began well after she disappeared, long enough for vital evidence to be lost or further criminal acts to take place. So either they intentionally left her to freeze, knew she got away safe from the scene, or sat on their thumbs while a predator took her. ANY logic or factual flaws??
Thoughts??

 

[Peabody]

If one looks closely enough in this link at the National Center for Missing Adults, one can *barely* see Maura's diamond stud earrings.

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/g...php?A200401157S

This photo is a "cropped" version of the photo found at http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/MauraNana.jpg



Now back to the questions posed by Crypto6 - anxious to hear your thoughts


.

 

[docwho3]

. . .So either they intentionally left her to freeze, knew she got away safe from the scene, or sat on their thumbs while a predator took her. ANY logic or factual flaws??
Thoughts??

And this helps us how in understanding what happened to Maura? Or are you leading up to a conclusion of one of the three that will actually point to where she might be?

 

[michelle]

This case is Mind Boggling!!

 

[crypto6]

And this helps us how in understanding what happened to Maura? Or are you leading up to a conclusion of one of the three that will actually point to where she might be?

It helps us by focusing on immediate peri-accident period free of the prior encumberances. The departure from usual procedure of immediate search and rescue if LE thought she was on foot is too great to accomodate any answer except they had reason to believe she had been picked up and was safe at the time. Why would they think that, and why would they still be unwilling to reveal it??

 

[PonderingThings]

The case of Maura and Brianna Maitland happened geographically about 2.5 hrs apart. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&saddr=montgomery,+vermont&daddr=haverhill,+new+hampshire

Maura disappeared first, then Brianna about a month later.

The authorities say the two cases are NOT linked.

In Brianna's case there has been the same kind of "obstruction" or "noncooperation" from authorities, that has occured in Maura's case.

Brianna's family, at one time, had Texas Eccusearch all ready to search the area and authorities wouldn't allow it citing "new evidence".

This was a news article that was posted on August 10, 2005 on another site:

http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/news/4831162/detail.html

Police Claim New Leads In Maitland Case
Infamous Search Team Told To Stay Home

BURLINGTON, Vt. -- Brianna Maitland has been missing for more than a year, and her family was hoping a specially trained search team from Texas would uncover new clues to their daughter's disappearance.

It's the same group that has been in Aruba helping in the high-profile search for Natalee Holloway --- a teenager from Alabama who vanished on the island.

The Texas Equusearch team was planning to arrive in Vermont on Tuesday, but were told not to come by local police who said they have new leads in the case. The Maitlands want to know why police have "turned away one of the best search organizations in America."

"If they give us the word that they need us and they feel as though what we have to offer is going to be valuable in this case, we won't even second-guess it, we'll be on the first flight out," said Miller.

The Maitlands said they dealt with a similar situation last year when the national organization called Klaas Kids wanted to come to town.

State police weren't available to elaborate on their supposed leads, but said they are doing everything they can to crack this case.

This was the second time a search team was turned away. Months later, volunteers did do a search and came up with nothing. As far as I'm aware there was no "new evidence" revealed.

Brianna's car was located where it looked like she had tried to back away, or turn around.

Its hard to believe that both the State of Vermont, and the State of New Hampshire authorities would involved in a cover up to protect a suspect. So, is it possible that all the secrecy is because they are onto one suspect and don't want to reveal too much? Or don't want to publically admit the cases are linked?

***********
The above is speculation on my part based on only superficial knowledge of the two cases.

 

[PonderingThings]

How Brianna's car was found.